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Reverb and Delay Processing
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Reverb and Delay Processing

Hey guys, at first i wanna thank the community in general for all the help . I learned a lot a stuff by reading of the experiences u guys made. This i my first post, just want you to know.

Now to my topic. I noticed that i often have struggle with my delay or reverb processing. Of course i know how the predelay and other important parameters are working, but it takes me lot of time and experimenting for example fitting the vocal into the beat. Processing instruments is not that hard.i always have the struggle with vocals Should i try a calculator for the right delay/ reverb times?
I know thats also a creative process. Maybe u guys can help me to improve my skills or give me some ideas and tipps.

Apologize for my not word perfect english.

Greets

Apache
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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I've never been keen on using math or tempo assumptions for reverb. Delays as they're being discreet events can be set via tempo. But there will be differences where various reverbs 'speak (time wise) -depending on the reverb chosen.
See 'Shape and 'Spread in various Hall patches, or compare to the more linear decays of Chambers or Plates for example.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
A good starting point for delay is a quarter note delay with feedback set to about 2 to 4 audible repeats.

There are delay calculators online that will show you all the options for a given tempo.

In most plugins now you can simply adjust to specific rhythms based on the project tempo, which saves you the trouble.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
A good starting point for delay is a quarter note delay with feedback set to about 2 to 4 audible repeats.

There are delay calculators online that will show you all the options for a given tempo.

In most plugins now you can simply adjust to specific rhythms based on the project tempo, which saves you the trouble.
What if the verb's initial reflections are already twenty or thirty ms out..?
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
What if the verb's initial reflections are already twenty or thirty ms out..?
I'm talking about delay not reverb.

In my experience pre -delay on a reverb doesn't really make a huge difference - it creates marginal improvements - the other settings are way more important. If a reverb doesn't good with the pre delay at 0 - then it won't likely sound great at any other setting.
Old 6 days ago
  #6
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Very first question after reading your post is - Are you using monitors or headphones?

If you're using headphones you can mix till you're a hundred years old and time based effects will continue to be nothing but pure guesswork.

You cannot adjust depth and distance using headphones. Its like trying to see how far something is from you using only one eye. It cant be done.
When you wear headphones you are handicapped when it comes to that third dimension is sound called depth. The center of the sound is in your skull and you have no crossfeed (left hear hears right speaker and vice versa) which gives you actual distance measurements using those ear lobes that hang on the side of your head.

The best you can try is to get one of those plugins that add cross feed and see if it helps, but I've tried a few and had zero luck using them.

If you use actual monitors then reverb/echo is a matter of planning a sound scape within your minds eye first then taking command over the tools you have to recreate what your imagination dictates. That doesn't happen over night or even over a matter of months. It can take a number of years in fact just to scratch the surface of the possibilities.

There are other factors that influence how reverb is used too. EQing the voice to sound near and far is important too. Up close a voice is typically full bodies with maximum treble and bass. As you get farther away with that voice, bass dies out pretty quickly followed by the treble end. Depending on the room type you may have nothing but midrange telephone tones at a distance and its the reverb that contains the brightness, not the direct sound.

How do you learnd these things and how to make them sound intentionally normal (or intentionally abnormal)? One is by seeing actually bands play out live. One of the favorite things I liked to do was walk around a club or arena when a band is playing live and find all the sweet spots in the place that had really cool sounding reflections. That huge boom your hear when a band plays a huge arena or that spot down the road where the bands sound fades in and out due to the wind blowing.
hearing the band from the side, back stage, out front where the sound man sits or against the back wall where the sound bounces and reverses direction all yield information you can use mixing.

The key is to be aware and "Know" what to listen for and Know why you are listening. Sure you can sit through an entire night and blissfully forget everything your heard an hour later. Or you can intentionally seek out things you can use for mixing purposes. That backbeat off the back wall has one tempo for that room depending on where you sit. Is the music's tempo taking advantage of it and folding it into the musical performance or are they fighting it trying to fight the natural backbeat?
Old 6 days ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
In my experience pre -delay on a reverb doesn't really make a huge difference - it creates marginal improvements - the other settings are way more important. If a reverb doesn't good with the pre delay at 0 - then it won't likely sound great at any other setting.
I don’t agree with that, especially on vocals when it comes to intelligibility. Pre-delay is one of the more important settings IMO.
Old 6 days ago
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
I don’t agree with that, especially on vocals when it comes to intelligibility. Pre-delay is one of the more important settings IMO.
My point is that if the tail can't blend well with the tone then it won't work.
Old 6 days ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
Very first question after reading your post is - Are you using monitors or headphones?
I am using both of them, in general I use the monitors and check the mix on the headphones.


Quote:
If you use actual monitors then reverb/echo is a matter of planning a sound scape within your minds eye first then taking command over the tools you have to recreate what your imagination dictates.
I think I know what u mean, this is the very first way how I start mixing a project, the imagination how the mix should sound is a important thing to me. Working with Bigger and deeper reverb or clearly hearable delays is the most time successful when it comes to this, but short delays just to create an echo or the use of small room reverb is difficult to me. I am recording a lot of hip hop, afro beat and rnb/modern pop music. I really try to find out to get a nice fitting vocal on the beat without sounding to far away or too artificially. I am looking more for the natural character.

Quote:
There are other factors that influence how reverb is used too. EQing the voice to sound near and far is important too.
Do you mean EQing the Reverb proportion with LPF and HPF? Or the direct signal before the room effects? Most time I do Low- and high pass filtering on the reverb, sometime the mids, if they pop out too much.


Quote:
One of the favorite things I liked to do was walk around a club or arena when a band is playing live and find all the sweet spots in the place that had really cool sounding reflections.
I will try it next time


Quote:
Is the music's tempo taking advantage of it and folding it into the musical performance or are they fighting it trying to fight the natural backbeat?
I'll find it out.
Old 5 days ago
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
My point is that if the tail can't blend well with the tone then it won't work.
That's true, but still pre-delay is one of the most important controls on a verb that does work.
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