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In music what metric is smaller than a cent?
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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In music what metric is smaller than a cent?

and what is that metric called?
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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Owen L T's Avatar
As in how sharp or flat something is? Not many use cases for a smaller unit. Think you'd talk about "0.2" of a cent if you absolutely had to.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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Yes well basically I’m looking for a plugin where I can pitch down or up audio in centitones instead of semi tones or whole tones. Basically I’m looking to micro tune in centitones. I am duplicating a vocal and pitching and panning the
Vocals in semitones -.6, +.3 etc... and but I want to make a duplicate of the vocal 8 times messing with 8 different combinations

it sounds thick but too wide I want to apply the same technique and make the vocal thick in the stereo field but still make it feel like one vocal is singing and not 8
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
and what is that metric called?
A "thousandth".
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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tedtan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
and what is that metric called?
Generally, tenths of a cent or hundredths of a cent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
I’m looking for a plugin where I can pitch down or up audio in centitones instead of semi tones or whole tones. Basically I’m looking to micro tune in centitones. I am duplicating a vocal and pitching and panning the
Vocals in semitones -.6, +.3 etc... and but I want to make a duplicate of the vocal 8 times messing with 8 different combinations
Many digital delays and harmonizers allow this, as do chorus FX.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedtan View Post
Generally, tenths of a cent or hundredths of a cent.




Many digital delays and harmonizers allow this, as do chorus FX.
Thank you man can you name one that does one? One that does it in tenths if a cent increments ?
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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Owen L T's Avatar
8 duplicated vocals, detuned less than 1 cent isn't going to make the vocal sound thick. It's just not a thing, and also suggests that the vocal itself is really the issue. Sorry to be blunt!
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen L T View Post
8 duplicated vocals, detuned less than 1 cent isn't going to make the vocal sound thick. It's just not a thing, and also suggests that the vocal itself is really the issue. Sorry to be blunt!
I have to agree with Owen.


Take a sung note like A3 (220hz fundamental) The difference between A3 and A#3 is only about 13Hz

One cent of that semitone is 0.13hz , i.e., the beat frequency between the original and the original shifted 1 cent is close to 8 seconds. That will be difficult if not impossible to hear. If you get any smaller it will pretty much disappear.


If you're looking for "width" as opposed to a doubling effect, you should use a panned delay rather than a pitch shift. Put one vocal on the left and the same with a few ms of delay on the right. Adjust the pan position of the two for the desired effect of width.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
and what is that metric called?
If you follow the metric conventions, it would probable be a "mill"


Centimeter = 1/100 of a meter; millimeter = 1/1000 of a meter so

Cent= 1/100 of a semi-tone; Mill = 1/1000 of a semi- tone
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I have to agree with Owen.


Take a sung note like A3 (220hz fundamental) The difference between A3 and A#3 is only about 13Hz

One cent of that semitone is 0.13hz , i.e., the beat frequency between the original and the original shifted 1 cent is close to 8 seconds. That will be difficult if not impossible to hear. If you get any smaller it will pretty much disappear.


If you're looking for "width" as opposed to a doubling effect, you should use a panned delay rather than a pitch shift. Put one vocal on the left and the same with a few ms of delay on the right. Adjust the pan position of the two for the desired effect of width.
I will try this thanks. Is there any plugin that pitches up or down in 1/tenth of cent increments though?
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
I will try this thanks. Is there any plugin that pitches up or down in 1/tenth of cent increments though?
I typically use Melodyne, and I checked it , but it appears to move only in one-cent increments
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Owen L T's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
I will try this thanks. Is there any plugin that pitches up or down in 1/tenth of cent increments though?
Ask yourself something: is there a reason these plugins all go in 1 cent increments? There is, and it's a simple one: that's all that's needed! As a frame of reference, when detuning synth oscillators, such as for supersaws, a conservative starting point is detuning 7 - 10 cents.

More broadly: making 8 copies of your vocal and applying any kind of pitch shift to all of them will NOT improve the sound. That's why you have never seen any tutorial with someone saying: "so I duplicated the lead vocal 8 times and did..." Yes, in the right hands, parallel processing can do things that inline processing can't. But adding 6 more after that will make things worse.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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GYMusic's Avatar
My opinion is... that's why a lot of analog tape recordings sound so full and rich. It's a small amount of wow and flutter. It's like a random pitch shift delay. The same effect can be had with an old Effectron ADM1024 with the secret mod.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GYMusic View Post
My opinion is... that's why a lot of analog tape recordings sound so full and rich. It's a small amount of wow and flutter. It's like a random pitch shift delay. The same effect can be had with an old Effectron ADM1024 with the secret mod.
Indeed. if the op wants to thicken, a simple transposition won't do much good. Few vocalist can hold an an absolute pitch for long, and its the random variation in pitch between the two tracks that creates the fullness, not a fixed transposition between the tracks.
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen L T View Post
Ask yourself something: is there a reason these plugins all go in 1 cent increments? There is, and it's a simple one: that's all that's needed! As a frame of reference, when detuning synth oscillators, such as for supersaws, a conservative starting point is detuning 7 - 10 cents.

More broadly: making 8 copies of your vocal and applying any kind of pitch shift to all of them will NOT improve the sound. That's why you have never seen any tutorial with someone saying: "so I duplicated the lead vocal 8 times and did..." Yes, in the right hands, parallel processing can do things that inline processing can't. But adding 6 more after that will make things worse.
Sir all I’m asking is; is there a plugin that does this I’m not sure why you are being rude. I have every right to experiment on my own. I actually did see a tutorial where you can thicken up your vocal if you pitch up and down the vocal in different variations of semitones and panning.

I asked a simple question. Is there that plugin that pitches up and down in centitones? 1/10th of a cent increments? Let me know if you know of one please.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GYMusic View Post
My opinion is... that's why a lot of analog tape recordings sound so full and rich. It's a small amount of wow and flutter. It's like a random pitch shift delay. The same effect can be had with an old Effectron ADM1024 with the secret mod.
I will have to look more into this. What is the mod called? Thank you
Old 1 week ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
Thank you man can you name one that does one? One that does it in tenths if a cent increments ?
I can't think of any off the top of my head. In fact, most times that I have seen this used, it has been duplicating the original track and pitching it up 5 cents and down by four cents, then combining the three signals together.

But if it exists, you can probably find it over at KVR.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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JTC111's Avatar
I've never seen a plugin that shifts in millicents ...probably because there's no call for it.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen L T View Post
Ask yourself something: is there a reason these plugins all go in 1 cent increments? There is, and it's a simple one: that's all that's needed! As a frame of reference, when detuning synth oscillators, such as for supersaws, a conservative starting point is detuning 7 - 10 cents.

More broadly: making 8 copies of your vocal and applying any kind of pitch shift to all of them will NOT improve the sound. That's why you have never seen any tutorial with someone saying: "so I duplicated the lead vocal 8 times and did..." Yes, in the right hands, parallel processing can do things that inline processing can't. But adding 6 more after that will make things worse.
Parallel processing is a great way to thicken up vocals. Subtle compression on one track and smash the other. Combine em and instant fat vocals.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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Some plugins for subtle vocal detuning/thickening. They pretty much all work in cents but I think they'll do what you want. It's a classic effect.

Soundtoys Microshift
Valhalla Delay (micro pitch shift presets)
Eventide Micropitch
Eventide H3000
Waves Ultrapitch
Stillwell CMX
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
Sir all I’m asking is; is there a plugin that does this I’m not sure why you are being rude.
I don't think he was rude, and I certainly don't think he meant to be rude if that's how it looks.

It looks to me like most people are saying that the goal you want to accomplish isn't normally accomplished using the tool you're looking for, which is why that tool is rare. So if that's the case it's probably good advice to rethink the process you want to employ.

Or to put it differently: Perhaps you're wasting time trying to go about it this way..
Old 1 week ago
  #22
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OR Classifiedx is either a Troll or extremely stupid and not willing to take the advice of others.

I go for the former.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
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GYMusic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classifiedx View Post
I will have to look more into this. What is the mod called? Thank you
This is from 2000.

"After all these years, I will now share the "GY Effectron II modulation mod". Partially inserting a unwired 1/4" plug into the "control" jack in the back disables the internal sweep modulation circuit. Now, the modulation is controlled by the amplitude of the incoming signal. The harder you hit it... the more resulting modulation. You may have to play with how far the 1/4" plug is inserted to get it to work.

It becomes a great thickening effect. Enjoy!"
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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Owen L T's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I don't think he was rude, and I certainly don't think he meant to be rude if that's how it looks.

It looks to me like most people are saying that the goal you want to accomplish isn't normally accomplished using the tool you're looking for, which is why that tool is rare. So if that's the case it's probably good advice to rethink the process you want to employ.

Or to put it differently: Perhaps you're wasting time trying to go about it this way..
Hey, thanks. I was being forcefully outspoken, and possibly strayed into rude-adjacent territory by mistake/force of habit!
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