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Condenser Mic?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Condenser Mic?

I have Shure sm57 and sm58 mic's.

I heard that to record nice vocals (assuming a good voice, of course, lol) a Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone works very well.

Vocals I will be recording is a male voice singing rock/blues type music.

Will the Shure's do the job, or should I look into the condenser mic?

Thanks so much!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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avare's Avatar
 

Both mics have used successfully for vocals.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Both mics have used successfully for vocals.
Awesome! thanks a bunch!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Head
 

A large music store will rent you a Neumann, AKG, Shure, or Audio Technica condenser microphone for $20 per day. Record some tracks and see how you like it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDrake View Post
A large music store will rent you a Neumann, AKG, Shure, or Audio Technica condenser microphone for $20 per day. Record some tracks and see how you like it.
That is awesome! Thanks...I didn't know that!
Phenomenal info!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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edva's Avatar
For male rock/blues, you are better off with 57/58 than with many of the low priced condenser mics. Most of the time you don't need or want the extra detail a condenser can provide for this type of vocal, and if recording live with other sounds or instruments, condensers can pick up too much background.
There are some exceptions among low priced condensers, (and also among high priced ones), but I think you will be OK with the Shures in this case. Good luck with your recording.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
For male rock/blues, you are better off with 57/58 than with many of the low priced condenser mics. Most of the time you don't need or want the extra detail a condenser can provide for this type of vocal, and if recording live with other sounds or instruments, condensers can pick up too much background.
There are some exceptions among low priced condensers, (and also among high priced ones), but I think you will be OK with the Shures in this case. Good luck with your recording.
Awesome! Thanks for that insight!
The best of luck with your music/recordings as well....
Thanks again!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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There is nothing wrong with the 57 and 58. But if you want better:

The next step up from the 57 and 58 are the broadcast dynamic mic's
SM7B and RE-20 are the most common broadcast moving coil mic's out there.

Also in the same price range are better "Standard" vocal mics. The newcompper with a great design to that market is the 50 year update of the SM58, the KSM8. Great mic for pople who don't have tons of experience using a mic.

That set of stuff is in the Under $500 range.

A good LDC or LDC tube mic will run you a bit more than $500 with only a few exceptions I can think of. The Groove Tubes MD1A or the Advanced Audio CM48
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrys View Post
I heard that to record nice vocals (assuming a good voice, of course, lol) a Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone works very well.
that actually is correct.

Dynamics can work, but generally in Pro Studios engineers will chose a LDC.

Buddha
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
If I remember correctly from another thread you are tracking guitars and vocals. But what about live drums?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessDinosaur View Post
If I remember correctly from another thread you are tracking guitars and vocals. But what about live drums?
At the moment it will be drums from Ez drummer etc. No live drums since I have no drummer.
With that said, I could opt to buy my own set of drums down the line and lay down some bests myself!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrys View Post
At the moment it will be drums from Ez drummer etc. No live drums since I have no drummer.
With that said, I could opt to buy my own set of drums down the line and lay down some bests myself!
DRUMS:
When you decide to start recording live drums you will want a decent selection of different mics to get what you want. I am a fan of dynamic mics for kick drums. My preferred kick mic is a shure beta 52 but an akg d112 is also really nice as is a neumann U47fet (or a clone). The 47fet is one of very few condenser mics i will use on a kick or bass amp. What ever mic you use on the kick drum just make sure you always use it on loud low frequency sources like kicks or bass amps. Low frequencies at really high volumes can cause the capsule to stretch a little and so it wont respond well sources other than the ones described. Toms and snares usually a good dynamic like a sm57 or a sennheiser 421. Overheads can very a lot I use a matched pair of LDC's (47fet clones) but I also have a matched pair of SDC's(shure sm81s) for when i want that sound.

VOCALS:
Tom Petty recorded the first 2 or 3 heartbreakers records with a 57 for his vocals. So really what ever mic gets you the sound you want. I usually go between 3 different mics for vocals. My 2 main go to vocal mics are both LDC's either one of my 47fet clones or an akg c414 b-uls. If I want a brighter mic for vocals or am doing something super poppy I pull out the Rode nt1a.

I recommend looking at the mics Warm Audio makes. They have several clones or mics based off very famous models. While they are not dead on exact they are all good sounding mics.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessDinosaur View Post
DRUMS:
When you decide to start recording live drums you will want a decent selection of different mics to get what you want. I am a fan of dynamic mics for kick drums. My preferred kick mic is a shure beta 52 but an akg d112 is also really nice as is a neumann U47fet (or a clone). The 47fet is one of very few condenser mics i will use on a kick or bass amp. What ever mic you use on the kick drum just make sure you always use it on loud low frequency sources like kicks or bass amps. Low frequencies at really high volumes can cause the capsule to stretch a little and so it wont respond well sources other than the ones described. Toms and snares usually a good dynamic like a sm57 or a sennheiser 421. Overheads can very a lot I use a matched pair of LDC's (47fet clones) but I also have a matched pair of SDC's(shure sm81s) for when i want that sound.

VOCALS:
Tom Petty recorded the first 2 or 3 heartbreakers records with a 57 for his vocals. So really what ever mic gets you the sound you want. I usually go between 3 different mics for vocals. My 2 main go to vocal mics are both LDC's either one of my 47fet clones or an akg c414 b-uls. If I want a brighter mic for vocals or am doing something super poppy I pull out the Rode nt1a.

I recommend looking at the mics Warm Audio makes. They have several clones or mics based off very famous models. While they are not dead on exact they are all good sounding mics.
My friend, you are a plethora of knowledge that is helping me out tremendously!
I am sitting here waiting for my MOTU to arrive shortly
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrys View Post
I have Shure sm57 and sm58 mic's.

I heard that to record nice vocals (assuming a good voice, of course, lol) a Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone works very well.

Vocals I will be recording is a male voice singing rock/blues type music.

Will the Shure's do the job, or should I look into the condenser mic?

Thanks so much!
Those are two great mics you have and of course i have to say that I also have a 57
There's no right or wrong mic. I read recently in a great book I got from Sound On Sound mag that the advantage of the large diaphragm mic is that it picks up nearly the full range of frequencies. Im new here so the more qualified folks can correct me on that if Im wrong. For example I have a twin set of T Bone pencil mics which are good on upper frequencies but not lower ones. So not great on vocals as they bring out the SSSSSSSSes. I got a VXL69 mogami edition tube mic a while back which was on sale. Great for my particular voice. Nice round warm sound which in a home studio is a God send.
But unless your budget allows...dont rush into buying more mics. The hanging duvet trick and a pop filter will work wonders
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrys View Post
My friend, you are a plethora of knowledge that is helping me out tremendously!
I am sitting here waiting for my MOTU to arrive shortly
Well, thank you. I am glad I can help out. Too often than not the artistic community is quick to tear down but slow and hesitant to lift each other up and build things the right way. I try to do my part to change that.

Also look up MOTU's official youtube channel. Many helpful videos. I promise you will need atleast one of them.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
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Not sure about prevalent use of the 57/58, on the Petty albums. (with all due respect)

But...
For many years, the SM57 has been the main studio vocal mic, for the great singer-Paul Rodgers (Free/Bad Company/etc.)
For Marshall Crenshaw, the SM7 has served him good stead for many years.

IMHO these Shure's also can sound great, on a bright toned vocalist-ala Michael Jackson or Bono/U2.
Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Not sure about prevalent use of the 57/58, on the Petty albums. (with all due respect)

But...
For many years, the SM57 has been the main studio vocal mic, for the great singer-Paul Rodgers (Free/Bad Company/etc.)
For Marshall Crenshaw, the SM7 has served him good stead for many years.

IMHO these Shure's also can sound great, on a bright toned vocalist-ala Michael Jackson or Bono/U2.
Chris
Not sure how much T.P. recorded with them, but he did use them on stage a lot.

Paul Rodgers I agree, a great singer.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
Not sure how much T.P. recorded with them, but he did use them on stage a lot.

Paul Rodgers I agree, a great singer.
Well i had heard the first 2 or 3 had been recorded with a 57 but who knows. Maybe just urban legend. Im sure we all agree its a good all around workhorse that has served many well.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessDinosaur View Post
Well i had heard the first 2 or 3 had been recorded with a 57 but who knows. Maybe just urban legend. Im sure we all agree its a good all around workhorse that has served many well.
Quite possible though.
That was a long time ago. He was definitely using a 57 live when I saw him back then. Certainly a chance he used it on the early records too.
I kept one 57, an old Unidyne III. Been using it (mostly on snare) for decades. Sounds amazing. I'm guessing that's the model he was using back around that time as well.
Yes, nothing wrong with a good old 57.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
I just ran across this artice. http://brucebase.wikidot.com/stats:n...tudio-sessions

Apparently Springsteens Nebraska album was recorded entirely with 2 57s.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessDinosaur View Post
I just ran across this artice. http://brucebase.wikidot.com/stats:n...tudio-sessions

Apparently Springsteens Nebraska album was recorded entirely with 2 57s.
And on a cassette machine I think.
Edit - that's a good article. Yeah, it's all in there. 57's and a cassette tape. That's all you need. And I think they mentioned using six or seven mastering engineers......haha

Last edited by edva; 2 weeks ago at 03:59 AM.. Reason: edit
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
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Be sure to mention Nebraska and the 57's in the High End forum sometime. Just don't say I sent you!
Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
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Owen L T's Avatar
The 58 and 57 do colour the sound a huge amount. (They are identical mics, save for the protective basket over the capsule.) I only have a couple decent vocal mics, (an Audio Tehcnica AT-4033a and an Electrovoice RE201) and I would only ever break out an SM58 if I wanted a distinctly lo-fi sound on the vocals - which, in my case, means I haven't tracked a vocal through an SM58 since 1998!

All mics sound different, of course, but the sound of a vocal through an SM58 is very much the sound of that vocal through an SM58, as opposed to anything approaching simply the sound of that vocal.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
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DistortingJack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen L T View Post
The 58 and 57 do colour the sound a huge amount. (They are identical mics, save for the protective basket over the capsule.) I only have a couple decent vocal mics, (an Audio Tehcnica AT-4033a and an Electrovoice RE201) and I would only ever break out an SM58 if I wanted a distinctly lo-fi sound on the vocals - which, in my case, means I haven't tracked a vocal through an SM58 since 1998!

All mics sound different, of course, but the sound of a vocal through an SM58 is very much the sound of that vocal through an SM58, as opposed to anything approaching simply the sound of that vocal.
I agree with what you said, except the fact that the SM57 sounds markedly different to the 58 due to its grille design, which changes the treble, and the 57 with its foam windscreen actually sounds much better than the 58 for vocals.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #25
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen L T View Post
I would only ever break out an SM58 if I wanted a distinctly lo-fi sound on the vocals.
a couple of years ago i bought 2 x Genuine Neve 1073 preamps.

the first mic i plugged in, to test the 1073s, was an old 58, that i bought in the early 80s. (i know that mic well)

i was very surprised how Good it sounded. Bright, Fat and Punchy.

then i did an A/B with 3 new 58s that i had just bought, and the sound was identical. (that surprised me too)

anyway i like 57s/58s and have used them both extensively, but not always in the places you would expect. they are almost interchangeable, except for vocal application i always grab a 58.

Buddha
Old 2 weeks ago
  #26
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrys View Post
Will the Shure's do the job, or should I look into the condenser mic?
Yes to both. Yes the Shures can "do the job" and yes you should look into a condenser mic.

While any mic might be the "right" mic for a particular voice on a particular song, dynamic mics and condenser mics use different principles to turn the sound wave into electricity. This difference in the mechanics of how they work will have an effect on the sound.

The generalizations you read of what those effects are, what that type of mic sounds like, are largely true. It is a different sound. It would be presumptuous to call it "better", but it would be foolish to say there are not clear differences.

A few dynamic mics might be said to have a "condenserish" sound - and maybe vice versa - but realistically, there are going to be differences and to try and squeeze an uncharacteristic sound out of a given microphone is rarely going to be successful.

Unfortunately, condenser mics tend to be more expensive than dynamics. And good ones, considerably more expensive. Cheap ones can have a harshness that cancels out their 'crisper' qualities. The Low End forum here has some good discussions on 'value' condensers. But you are usually going to get more bang for your buck sticking with dynamics. You see here a number of famous artists cited as singing into a $100 dynamic mic. You will find a lot fewer famous artists cited as singing into a $100 condenser!

That's why you should "look into" condensers, and not just rush out and buy them. Only you can decide the trade-offs. And it is entirely possible you may prefer your Shures. I usually include a dynamic mic in vocal shootouts with new artists and many times the artist prefers the dynamic.

But you can't compare what you have not tried, so even if you like your current mics, you should experiment to see if you might not like something else better. The only warning is that for many people, microphones - especially vocal microphones - can be a giant money pit.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #27
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I must admit, that if I started over from scratch... SM7 (I prefer it on my voice vs. 57/58) into a Neve style Pre, would be one good simple way to go on me.
Probably the Premium version, of the GAP-73.
Especially for Home Recordings. Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #28
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
The only warning is that for many people, microphones - especially vocal microphones - can be a giant money pit.
your complete post was a very good one Joeq. well said.

yes, good vocal mics can be a money pit, but you the bottom line is that....

Have To Have One. 2 or 3 if you can....

the price point, verses Quality, that makes you content, then becomes the deciding factor.

everything audio is like that.

Buddha
Old 1 week ago
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
A good LDC or LDC tube mic will run you a bit more than $500 with only a few exceptions I can think of. The Groove Tubes MD1A or the Advanced Audio CM48
There are numerous good LDCs under $500. Tech has come a long way in recent years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG BUDDHA View Post
that actually is correct.

Dynamics can work, but generally in Pro Studios engineers will chose a LDC.

Buddha
Not really, at least not across the board. Pros use the mic appropriate to the task, which may be an LDC or a dynamic or a ribbon (etc etc). Not putting this on you at all, but the whole "you need an LDC for vocals" myth really needs to go away.
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