The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Upright recording: stereo image problem
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Upright recording: stereo image problem

Hello there,
recently I got myself some Km184s for recording my upright but then I noticed a problem with the stereo image, which audible with the km184s as well as with a set of Sm57s.
I have the lows panned left and the highs right.
When I then play from e.g. the middle c downwards everything seems fine at first. However the E3 (below the middle) is in the middle of the stereo image or even a little bit on the right, while the F3 still is on the left side, wher it should be. It's as if the stereo image is reset on the E3.

The cause is probably that, from that note out, the wound bass strings start.
But even then the stereo image shouldn't have that problem right?

Does anyone have asolution for this issue?

In the attached recording you can hear it especially well near the end wher I only play G3 an E3.
Attached Files

Stereo Issue Test.mp3 (1.55 MB, 145 views)

Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius77 View Post
I have the lows panned left and the highs right.
???
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BT64 View Post
???
I mean that I have the mic that was over the bass strings panned to the left and the mic over the mid and treble string panned to the right.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
Play with the distance between the two mics.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius77 View Post
I mean that I have the mic that was over the bass strings panned to the left and the mic over the mid and treble string panned to the right.
localisation of low notes in the stereo field is poor/one cannot hear (much) where low notes originate from in the stereo field - hence instruments which go low should better be panned towards the center. use wider panorama settings only if there is another low instrument with which you can balance things (say a mic on the low speaker of a leslie, tuba, bass clarinet etc).

the position of the bass can get localized due to its upper range being picked up in the mains and/or the room mics; coincident pairs allow for more precise localisation, spaced pairs get you a bit more blurred picture.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
You ought to play the entire keyboard, top to bottom and bottom to top.You only give a small sample of the range, or spread, instead of the whole instrument.

Keep in mind that the strings cross over each other, so there is no way to get the high to low being left to right (or vice versa). Have someone else play the piano, and move your head around while they play actual music, not just plunking notes, and find a pleasant stereo image with your ears. Uprights are not easy to mic! Yoiu may find it better to put the mics overhead, looking down into the open top. Find where it sounds best to your ears THEN place the mics and experiment with positioning. Maybe a coincident pair or ORTF will give better imaging than spot mics on the soundboard. Positioning the instrument in the room will also make a difference. I've been able to get a good sound by facing the back of the piano into a corner with an ORTF Pair six feet away...play with it!

you may find the the KM84s are too good for your piano!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 

what mic technique are you using
try ORTF

What you describe is evident in your sample
a technique like ORTF will capture the complex soundstage of the piano; not a simple left/bass to right/treble but also not the wild note popping up like you have now

lou posted while I was writing !
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
Amen loujudson.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
You ought to play the entire keyboard, top to bottom and bottom to top.You only give a small sample of the range, or spread, instead of the whole instrument.

Keep in mind that the strings cross over each other, so there is no way to get the high to low being left to right (or vice versa). Have someone else play the piano, and move your head around while they play actual music, not just plunking notes, and find a pleasant stereo image with your ears. Uprights are not easy to mic! Yoiu may find it better to put the mics overhead, looking down into the open top. Find where it sounds best to your ears THEN place the mics and experiment with positioning. Maybe a coincident pair or ORTF will give better imaging than spot mics on the soundboard. Positioning the instrument in the room will also make a difference. I've been able to get a good sound by facing the back of the piano into a corner with an ORTF Pair six feet away...play with it!

you may find the the KM84s are too good for your piano!
Thanks for the answer. In this sample I only plunked some notes so the issue would be more apparent. This is also the reason why I just played in that register,because thats where the problem lies.

Concerning the stereo image and sound quality I usually do it from the back of the piano in a spaced position and I do love the sound I'm getting from there, especially with the 184s.

I already tried an ORTF Pair from different positions, but I like the spaced position better.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BT64 View Post
Amen loujudson.
The voice of experience... I once had a housemate who wanted to record some songs with her tiny little spinet Steinway in her bedroom. By the time I got mics close enough to not get her voice or room echo, the thumpling and creaking of the pedal mechanisms was overwhelming! She cried, "But it's a Steinway!" I could only say, well, it's a clunky Steinway (literally). We made her demo with an electric piano... :-)

A funky jug band I worked with would bring their own ancient spinet to the club as there was not piano there. For their purposes, a single 57 in the middle of the soundboard worked just fine! They wouldn'tlet me put a condenser mic on it - funky was part of their sound!

Takes all kinds! I am fond of saying, there are about 2 million mic positions that will work on a piano. Just pick one.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius77 View Post
Thanks for the answer. In this sample I only plunked some notes so the issue would be more apparent. This is also the reason why I just played in that register,because thats where the problem lies.

Concerning the stereo image and sound quality I usually do it from the back of the piano in a spaced position and I do love the sound I'm getting from there, especially with the 184s.

I already tried an ORTF Pair from different positions, but I like the spaced position better.
I only meant that playing the entire range give a better idea of how much those notes stick out.

Like during a soundcheck, the bass player might say THIS note is too loud, and they keep playing only that note. I can adjust that frequency, but now what about the rest of the instrument??? eh?
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump