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why i cannot get a good quality sound?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

why i cannot get a good quality sound?

Any advice would be really appreciated

so we just brought an DRSQ4M MKII to now add with our apollo Mk II twin quad and i hear no difference whatever so ever in quality

so I am just wondering do I need a new microphone I am using a neumann tlm 102 but i was really hoping after buying a DRSQ4M i would hear a difference however I really don’t

I am just wondering what else I can try now I am using HS8 which I know is a decent quality so now I really don’t know what else I can try
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by rara View Post
Any advice would be really appreciated

so we just brought an DRSQ4M MKII to now add with our apollo Mk II twin quad and i hear no difference whatever so ever in quality

so I am just wondering do I need a new microphone I am using a neumann tlm 102 but i was really hoping after buying a DRSQ4M i would hear a difference however I really don’t

I am just wondering what else I can try now I am using HS8 which I know is a decent quality so now I really don’t know what else I can try
Hi rara. Preamps don't always make a big difference; the Phoenix unit looks good though...I'm sure it'll pay off eventually. It took me a while to really appreciate my BAE preamp; finding the sweet spot with different mics.

What kind of acoustic treatment do you have? Any tiles on the reflection points?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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thanks for your reply

yes i am using very high quality vocal booth sound blankets like $100 each

i tried relocating microphone but whatever i do i always am getting same quality sound

i used a/b using Phoenix Audio DRSQ4M MKII vs apollo twin quad v mk2 but again i hear no difference

i am using yamaha ha8 studio monitors

i dont know if its just me or i dont really have everything setup correctly but i dont really hear any real difference

i was gonna buy a u87 to check because i am using a tlm 102 but as far as i know this was a decent quality microphone

i dont know what else to really try

i even tried eq fab filter delay reverb compressor etc again i hear no difference vs an apollo
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
An '87 might work. The character of some mics overpowers the subtleties of the preamp; never used a TLM102 or 87 personally.

One question: is the output of the Phoenix connected to the line in of the Apollo i.e. by-passing the Apollo pre's? Apologies in advance for such an obvious question.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
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kuasalogam's Avatar
it took me a long time to get the 'diifference' between preamps.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Assuming preamps sound different as in night and day is a common misconception.
I have the exact same Phoenix unit (the dual channel version) and it's one of the best pres I have ever used.
How have you set it up? There are so many different tonalities possible depending on how input and output are driven? It can be clear, clean and open (so that you maybe can't hear a difference to the Apollo) or saturated and thick.
I use it driven into saturation and with the EQ engaged in my mixing for drums and bass and it's a wonderful, huuuuge sound.

Oh, and yes, as asked above, make sure you go line in (with a TRS jack that is) into the Apollo!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
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the rooms inside which we stick up micophones for tracking and speakers for mixing define to a very large degree what sound can be achieved/gets perceived upon playback...

i suggest you invest in a measuring mic, download free rew software, read stickies in the studio building forum on how to measure, read a bunch if threads and then ask questions how to improve room acoustics in both your iso booth and control room.

sure an even better mic and a truly great preamp can help a bit but most likely not as much as you might hope for until you exhausted all options regarding acoustic treatment, mic and speaker positions and maybe dsp to correct speaker response...

(if this makes any sense, i fear this post should get moved again...)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
What is wrong with the sound you are getting in your opinion? You have solid home recording gear, which should get you in the ballpark of professional by default. I think throwing $3000 mics at the problem is a bit hasty, no? There are a ton of records out there recorded in a closet for a vocal booth and a home studio. What sound are you trying to accomplish? Maybe post short examples of the “problem”?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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there is nothing with our sound before for a home recording however i brought a new pre really hoping i would get something alot nicer because sound i was getting before wasnt cd quality

i made a quick video

any advice welcome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71O7...ature=youtu.be
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Maybe... Instead of throwing more money at your problem you should try some free reading.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
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i have been reading and watching a lot

i have gained a fair bit of knowledge but still it really lacks a fair bit when compared with CD quality

even without any eq compressor reverb delay etc i believe i should be still getting a really good quality sound
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Watched the video- you didnt describe what the problem is. It is great that you showed the signal chain and the room treatment, but I still dont know what you think is wrong with the sound. As others have said here, a preamp is a "subtle" tool at best, and the Uaudio is good quality. The Pheonix wont be a dramatic difference even if it sounds "great". Im assuming that by CD quality you mean finished production sounding. That has less to do with hardware and more to do with technique and practice. A great engineer could make modest equipment sound good, and while great gear makes it easier to sound good, its still down to recording technique.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by rara View Post
i have been reading and watching a lot

i have gained a fair bit of knowledge but still it really lacks a fair bit when compared with CD quality

even without any eq compressor reverb delay etc i believe i should be still getting a really good quality sound
I agree. You have reasonable expectations.
Great video BTW.

Personally I'd like to see the output on XLR from the Phoenix; not sure that the parallel output (on jack) is going through the output transformer. You might need an XLR-to-jack cable to go into the Apollo.

Another point is that you'll probably hear more of a difference (between preamps) recording in a room (as opposed to the booth) where the ambience and acoustics come into play.

Final point is that you probably need acoustic treatment for the monitors - at the mirror points. This will make it easier to hear differences...even one acoustic tile in-between the speakers will make you go 'A-ha.'

Last edited by Arthur Stone; 4 weeks ago at 05:28 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
Just bring it back. There's no point in fighting to try and hear a difference - maybe the Apollo preamp is just as good and there is no substantial difference. It makes no sense to spend a bunch of money on treatment and new mics to accommodate a piece of gear you could just return.

It reminds me of when I had my Saffire 56 - I spent hours upon hours recording and testing all the preamp emulations only to realize the stock preamp was better than all of them and it was basically a waste of time using the liquid preamps. I know that's not the same as a hardware preamp that costs nearly $1000, but the lesson is trust your ears.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
Problem is that you cannot trust your ears if they are not getting the correct reference sound; acoustic treatment (basic...even one tile) will make the biggest bang-for-buck in getting to the CD sound-quality that the OP aspires to.

I don't think the TLM102 is a good mic on which to judge preamp quality; I think the OP (who obviously has a passion and wants to record vocals today) should go for a U87 or similar (maybe hire one for the weekend).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
Problem is that you cannot trust your ears if they are not getting the correct reference sound; acoustic treatment (basic...even one tile) will make the biggest bang-for-buck in getting to the CD sound-quality that the OP aspires to.

I don't think the TLM102 is a good mic on which to judge preamp quality; I think the OP (who obviously has a passion and wants to record vocals today) should go for a U87 or similar (maybe hire one for the weekend).
I suppose if all he has to do is renovate a room and buy a $3000 microphone to hear the impact of his $1500 preamp, then the problem solves itself. Easy fix.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
I suppose if all he has to do is renovate a room and buy a $3000 microphone to hear the impact of his $1500 preamp, then the problem solves itself. Easy fix.
No-one said that. I mentioned the mirror-points surrounding the monitors. That's basic stuff.

If the OP cannot hear the difference between the Apollo and Phoenix then it's a monitoring issue...or the right cable.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post

If the OP cannot hear the difference between the Apollo and Phoenix then it's a monitoring issue...or the right cable.
Or they actually sound similar.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
Or they actually sound similar.
Similar? Yes. The same? No.

How is sending the Phoenix back going to help the OP?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post

How is sending the Phoenix back going to help the OP?
$1500 to spend on something else.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21


How could anyone recommend spending 3k on a mic if you've not heard results of the current set up? amazing vox has been recorded on much more modest gear than rara's
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
$1500 to spend on something else.
What?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_A_P View Post


How could anyone recommend spending 3k on a mic if you've not heard results of the current set up? amazing vox has been recorded on much more modest gear than rara's
Not on a TLM102 though (in the OP's case)...and probably in studios with reference monitoring; hence my questioning his acoustic treatment which, if done, will provide the best value-for-money.

I'd say a $3000 mic is a good investment...especially if you've tried some mics out first.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
Not on a TLM102 though (in the OP's case)...and probably in studios with reference monitoring; hence my questioning his acoustic treatment which, if done, will provide the best value-for-money.

I'd say a $3000 mic is a good investment...especially if you've tried some mics out first.
I guess a 3000 mic is a good investment if you have a thriving studio, a freshly inked 7 figure contract, or dont care about every making your money back from selling the mic.

Even at inflated reverb prices, used U87s are 500-1000 less than new. You could certainly go the used route and save a few bucks, but these things are not investment grade.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_A_P View Post
I guess a 3000 mic is a good investment if you have a thriving studio, a freshly inked 7 figure contract, or dont care about every making your money back from selling the mic.

Even at inflated reverb prices, used U87s are 500-1000 less than new. You could certainly go the used route and save a few bucks, but these things are not investment grade.
An investment in the OP's vocals...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
Ahh I got you. OP, I hope you find what you're looking for. cheers.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
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You might already be getting a quality sound, but it's not the sound you're after. For example, one can buy a $5000 tube condenser mic and it won't sound like a ribbon if that's the sound one is going for.

As far as voice recording, one usually has to find the mic that flatters their voice the most. Some people sound best through a U47 whilst other sound best through an SM7. And if the person falls into the latter category, dumping a whole bunch of cash for a 47 or 47-clone won't get them what they want.

Jim Morrison sang through a U47 for a lot of the Doors stuff. But if anyone buys a U47 it won't necessarily make them sound like Jim Morrison, for example.

And, as mentioned before in this thread, the recording room also makes a huge difference. If one is recording in a bedroom the recording will always sound like someone singing in a bedroom, unless they treat said bedroom to make it sound more like a vocal booth. Getting right up on the mic and singing loudly can minimize room effects. But close micing singers can sound harsh and/or unnatural(not to mention all the spit the mic will accumulate), unless "in your face" is the sound one is going for.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
I'm going to hypothesize that few great mic/vocal recordings were achieved inside a vocal booth. Maybe someone who has experience with good booths could give the OP a few pointers?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
Here for the gear
 

thanks for everyone's reply

maybe its me maybe its the microphone i really dont know but its far from what i would call CD quality

this was fully recorded using a tlm 102 its so clear so nice however i cannot get the same kind of quality when using the same microphone i emailed and asked guy in video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQFSQGoQsbs
Old 4 weeks ago
  #30
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