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Highest monitor volume before room bass enter the equation?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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Question Highest monitor volume before room bass enter the equation?

Is there a way to know know at what volume does the room bass start to affect what you're getting from the monitors?

I only have 6 panels of OC 705 and nothing for the bass.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
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The room is going to do what it does at all playback levels.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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The bad news is that if you can hear the speakers, the room can hear the speakers. Destructive nulls and resonant peaks don’t have an SPL threshold. That is my understanding, at least.
The good news could be that your six panels MIGHT have some effect on the bass in the room. That possible effect depends on how large and how thick each panel is. It also depends on the size and layout of your room, and where you are placing the panels.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
The bad news is that if you can hear the speakers, the room can hear the speakers. Destructive nulls and resonant peaks don’t have an SPL threshold. That is my understanding, at least.
The good news could be that your six panels MIGHT have some effect on the bass in the room. That possible effect depends on how large and how thick each panel is. It also depends on the size and layout of your room, and where you are placing the panels.
I can play my ukulele soft enough to where I don't hear the reflections. But I might be fooling myself.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
I can play my ukulele soft enough to where I don't hear the reflections. But I might be fooling myself.
Interesting thought... I think you are playing the uke at a level where the direct sound is slightly above your threshold of hearing, and the reflected room sound is below a level you can hear directly, especially as it is masked by the direct sound of the uke. But room effects are not limited to audible reflections (delayed return) or reverb. Destructive nulls, for example, are impossible to hear directly because they create an absence of sound at various frequencies. In doing that, they change the sound of the instrument in the room, but in a very sneaky way. They do the same to music playback.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Interesting thought... I think you are playing the uke at a level where the direct sound is slightly above your threshold of hearing, and the reflected room sound is below a level you can hear directly, especially as it is masked by the direct sound of the uke. But room effects are not limited to audible reflections (delayed return) or reverb. Destructive nulls, for example, are impossible to hear directly because they create an absence of sound at various frequencies. In doing that, they change the sound of the instrument in the room, but in a very sneaky way. They do the same to music playback.
I suppose reference tracks are the way to go. The only place that I feel confident about mixing in is my car. Headphones are the worst no matter how much I spend on them. For some reason I can't hear the balance until I check the mix in my car.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
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Cars are interesting “rooms”. On the good side, they usually have no parallel surfaces, plenty of non-rigid absorbent cushions, and plenty of power for the room size. On the bad side, people don’t normally sit in a good position for accurate stereo playback.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
I can play my ukulele soft enough to where I don't hear the reflections. But I might be fooling myself.
1. The lowest frequency that an ukelele produces is not really in the bass range, so those reflections say nothing about the bass response.
Besides, those reflections that you can hear are lower order (late) reflections (they're clearly distinguishable from the original sound).
But, the first order reflections, as is also the bass interference, cannot be detected separately; they destructively or constructively interfere with the original soundwave, changing it, and you won't be aware of it. Only the sound you're hearing, won't be the original sound.

So, the sound of your ukelele in the room is per definition already affected by the room (refections); verify this by playing the ukelele while walking out of the room into the garden, listen to how the sound just changes.

Alternatively, play the ukelele softly and let someone else listen (or place a mic) somewhere else in the room (a corner?).


2. According to the Fletcher-Munson study, our hearing sensitivity curve is indeed different at different SPL levels, but that doesn't mean that the REAL frequency response curve is different at different SPL levels.
Play your ukekele at low levels, record it at that level and then play it back loud or in a neutral listening evironment (your car?) and you'll hear that all the issues that you hadn't heard when playing, have been captured by the microphone.

Our hearing is not sensitive to bass at lower SPL levels, so we won't hear much bass or bass issues at low levels, but that doesn't mean that they're not there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
I suppose reference tracks are the way to go. The only place that I feel confident about mixing in is my car. Headphones are the worst no matter how much I spend on them. For some reason I can't hear the balance until I check the mix in my car.
Reference tracks are a great help, but not a substitute for treatment and will suffer from the same effects explained above.
Only, since you won't be mixing the reference track, you cannot ruin anything there, but you will your own mixes.
If you're listening to a reference track in a spot where there's a suckout/null of a certain low frequency, you just do not hear that frequency and you will probably be boosting too much of that frequency in your own mixes without knowing it.
Then you'll discover, in your car or somewhere else, that your mix has too much bass, compared to anything else, including the reference track.

Heavy, solid boundaries are necessary for reflecting bass frequencies, consequently causing constructive/destructive interference in that frequency band.
Since car's doors, roof, etc., are very light, compared to the walls in a room, they won't cause these bass issues.

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