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Not satisfied with vocals , suggestions
Old 15th April 2019
  #1
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Not satisfied with vocals , suggestions

I have never been satisfied with the vocals in the DAW. Interface is 6i6. I have a handful of microphones, and I record them at different distances in different rooms. Looking to get 'that sound'. It happens with capturing guitars and bass, you move around and find it.

I must have shoeboxes full of cassettes and a stack of 1/4" reels of recorded vocals I was satisfied with. I am using the same preamps and 16ch mixer as with the analog recordings.

Is there any benefit to recording the vocal on cassette first? On a tascam porta studio or something to get an analog vocal sound?

Or recording the voice thru the PA monitor speaker with a microphone
Old 15th April 2019
  #2
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What sound is "that" sound?
Old 15th April 2019
  #3
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A recording that i want to save. I screw around and throw a bass riff down , it sounds good in the DAW. No voices though.

I did spoken voice tests, and it does not sound that great. What about tracking on a 4trk first?

Bass, not bad.
BassComparison2.wav - Google Drive

Speaking
voicesmicrophones1.wav - Google Drive

Is there a tool that helps you to determine if ASIO is set up correct. The recorded vocals sound reflective with different ASios. Will the ASIO version matter? If one is Line 6 asio the other recording has Scarlette 6i6 ASIO and the Roland has ASIO for all?
Old 16th April 2019
  #4
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Is there any benefit to laying the voice down on analog equipment, like a 4 track cassette Porta Studio, first?
Old 17th April 2019
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1971 View Post
Is there any benefit to laying the voice down on analog equipment, like a 4 track cassette Porta Studio, first?
It wouldn't benefit my productions, but it might benefit yours?

When it comes to the creative arts, there's no wrong or right - only personal preference.

People can help you with "how" to lay down a vocal to a Porta Studio, but only you can determine if the resulting sound is pleasing to your ear.

Good luck with your audio adventures.
Old 17th April 2019
  #6
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Maybe if you are into lofi stuff i guess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1971 View Post
Is there any benefit to laying the voice down on analog equipment, like a 4 track cassette Porta Studio, first?
Old 17th April 2019
  #7
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Using a speaking voice Im not there yet. I was thinking tha there was something being done in the Porta Studio to the input signal 'voice' that was not being done by the USB interface and DAW.

I do not like that there 4-5 different ASio's required for different products. Those ASIO's are unstable with sound. That might be my problem, the keyoard wants asio for all and the focusrite wants their scralette ASIO for the same session.

In the 90s at the studio it was very much, what you hear is what you get. This digital is not that. My reel to reel 8 trk still works but , then I need to make that digital so others could hear it. What ever came out the monitors is what the mixdown sounded like.

I got all kinds of refections in a coat closet. It sounds like digital artifact.
Old 17th April 2019
  #8
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Maybe you could try using a tape emulation plugin on the vocal track in your DAW
Old 17th April 2019
  #9
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No. Because the basic input is not there.
Old 17th April 2019
  #10
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Last night this was where I was at.

My voice NT-1 pop guard,blanket cage, preamp Aphex tubescence, compressor Aphex Compellor, 6i6, 48k. Should be completely transformerless into the 6i6 line in 3 and 4.

Stratocaster guitar
Drum program ez drummer.
I cut lows and highs ,but needs EQ works, lots of it. Cuts everywhere.

Levels not right. I sound like a muppet or a Kazoo.


Tom Petty song.

downsouth.wav - Google Drive
-3
south.wav - Google Drive
Old 17th April 2019
  #11
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What preamp? What compressor. How are they set. The voice sounds very harsh with way too much high end going on. There should be a lot more proximity in the mic if you are three inches away. I hear very little low end in comparison to the highs.
Old 17th April 2019
  #12
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The info was added.

-6 is targeted on the main meter. Rendering to wav file I bump it up a bit for a volume loss.

Right now everything is cut. Always cutting, never boosting. I'm thinking thats a bad sign. When your only finding bad things to turn down.

I am looking for a few suggestions to try tonight. What info packet size should sound better bigger or smaller? Bigger holds more detail? Where should I be looking?

In the EQ there is a place to draw pictures. So I drew a big tit. What shape are you drawing? Seaguls ? 30 takes of the same 23 seconds..I want some progress.
Attached Thumbnails
Not satisfied with vocals , suggestions-20190417_115301.jpg  
Old 17th April 2019
  #13
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the speaking sounded fine, the vocals did not.
Old 17th April 2019
  #14
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Yes, thank you. The frustration takes the fun out of it.

Let me try to get some proximity and distance cause at most Im 12" back. Perhaps I need to be further.

This is doubled , sung on top each other. I cannot cover up the interface problem.

untitled11.wav - Google Drive

I will reduce packet size to try to get some 'tape speed' ips quality effect in the mix.

This one cut is using a SM58 and a Lexicon PCM to Pitch FX hardtune the verse. Done post, with the keyboard via midi. Reverb is a chamber.

ThanosIsComming.wav - Google Drive



TheSpot.jpg - Google Drive

This one is using the built in mic/camera in the laptop, and it makes a better recording than $1000's in equipment. ASIO is bull****. USB recording is Bull****. This is most frustrating.

WIN_20180614_17_59_37_Pro.mp4 - Google Drive
Old 18th April 2019
  #15
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Would it be better to record the amplified voice from the PA speaker? Like mic'ing up a 4x12 Marshall guitar. You don't want the sound of the thin direct input guitar, you want the strong amplified powered Marshall sound. Same with the voice, I am plugging in straight to the interface with the preamped voice, not from the PA speaker. Perhaps I need to record the amped PA speaker. Also what is re-amping?
Old 18th April 2019
  #16
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Reamping vid-



Notice he is recording the friggin speaker. Yes!
I hear no reflections in his SM57 untreated room , like mine. He is not saying how they were recorded originally.
Could the speaker be a better source? Could using a guitar amp provide a more familiar sounding vocal?
Stay tuned the adventure continues..
Old 18th April 2019
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1971 View Post
The info was added.

-6 is targeted on the main meter. Rendering to wav file I bump it up a bit for a volume loss.

Right now everything is cut. Always cutting, never boosting. I'm thinking thats a bad sign. When your only finding bad things to turn down.

I am looking for a few suggestions to try tonight. What info packet size should sound better bigger or smaller? Bigger holds more detail? Where should I be looking?

In the EQ there is a place to draw pictures. So I drew a big tit. What shape are you drawing? Seaguls ? 30 takes of the same 23 seconds..I want some progress.
Is that the EQ curve you are using? Even with out the bump around 2k, there is no way that can sound like anything other than a bad phone call.

I've got an idea. I've attached a PDF. Read it. Learn it. Get to know it inside out. Then start over.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Yep_betterrecordings_09.pdf (1.50 MB, 24 views)
Old 18th April 2019
  #18
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Quote:

ASIO is bull****. USB recording is Bull****.
Actually, it isn't.
Old 18th April 2019
  #19
Quote:
I do not like that there 4-5 different ASio's required for different products.
There are not 4 or 5 different ASIO drivers written for each sound card. That;s not true at all. Each sound card has a driver and each sound's drivers vary with each model. you need to try each driver mode (WDM, ASIO and what not) to determine what works best for you and your specific situation.

Quote:
Those ASIO's are unstable with sound. That might be my problem, the keyoard wants asio for all and the focusrite wants their scralette ASIO for the same session.
There are tens of thousands of people using that same sound card that are recording great vocals and getting good performance form its drivers.
Driver modes are the way you r sound card communicates with your DAW.
Old 18th April 2019
  #20
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Explain how the LaptopPC's Chatcam is better quality?

If it is the ASIO's I got nothing. It has to work plug and play in the DAW. I play music not computers. Very confusing to me.

I enjoy structuring and playing the music. To problem solve with a line or 2 here and there is not that fun. PLay and record needs t be closer to something more professional than an audio notebook. It could be. It sounds much different live. To be continued.

Anybody that says I cannot play or sing consider this, I have been playing music for 40 years. I can sing and play. There is something else to it.

Get me Chumba Whumba level vocals at least.
Old 18th April 2019
  #21
Quote:
Explain how the LaptopPC's Chatcam is better quality?
Im not into that, sorry.

But,for audio recording, the term,'better' is all relative to each specific situation. Better for what? Better than what? Better than what sound?
Better for what mix better is different for each person.

What is better for me,m is not better for you. Its all RELative!
A $99 mic can be better than a $1500 mic.
You can get great results with a $99 mic and a $99 sound card and a free DAW. ASIO has nothing to do with it.

ASIO is a protocol for the sound card to communicate with your DAW.
All you need to do is set up your buffers to the right settings for your specific needs and DAW. As long as you have a PC that can handle the needs, ASIO is not your problem. If you do no have a PC that meets the standards of audio production, then its still not ASIO causing your problems. ITs your PC
Old 18th April 2019
  #22
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It meets the requirements of the USB interface.

Thank you. Yes, you can get good results on budget gear. Really good with 1/4".

Protools would sound different than Reaper? I don't understand that.

My problem is mostly frustration , and it looks common.

Like all the Acoustic guitar recording threads. I place my mic, and target the levels and it does not sound like the example.
Old 18th April 2019
  #23
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Seems you just want to argue with people who are trying to help you. Good luck with that.
Old 18th April 2019
  #24
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If someone criticizes the PC isn't good enough, they would need to defend that statement with data.

[mod delete]

I am following a trail. I was asking if there was any benefit to laying it down on a 4 trk first. Then I discovered a re-amping demonstartion, in that he lays it down on something else first. It also had speaker or monitor as a recording source, that was also a possiblity.

Last edited by Bender412; 18th April 2019 at 04:05 PM.. Reason: Personal insults
Old 18th April 2019
  #25
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I'm gonna carry on..

This a recording forum, I would like to have a pleasant discussion. Cool?

I do not see how Reaper would sound different than Protools.
EZ Keys, ultimate drums, etc. and other VST instruments would need to be standard sounding, and sound similar across many platforms and DAWs.
Old 18th April 2019
  #26
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It does not sound different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1971 View Post
I'm gonna carry on..

This a recording forum, I would like to have a pleasant discussion. Cool?

I do not see how Reaper would sound different than Protools.
EZ Keys, ultimate drums, etc. and other VST instruments would need to be standard sounding, and sound similar across many platforms and DAWs.
Old 18th April 2019
  #27
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I was waiting all day to try this. There are still a bunch of videos in my que, but I covered some ground. I got no time but I tried reamping the PA speaker and then a wild card idea came to me, recording the mixer main out headphones. Shove a SM58 mic in the headphone bucket. The headphone capture idea is to shrink it down. To fit on the head of a pin. Smaller = higher definition.

The original pickup is the NT-1, then the SM58 is shoved in front of the PA or the mixer headphones as the DAW armed source.

Same as above, flat, no pluggins. About -6 on meter.

NT1toPAspkr2SM58.wav - Google Drive


Not bad idea! Much better definition. I will try ear buds next.
headphonesSM58.wav - Google Drive
Old 18th April 2019
  #28
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There must be a silly problem if a recording of you talking sounds like it should but not singing.
Old 18th April 2019
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiasSwe View Post
There must be a silly problem if a recording of you talking sounds like it should but not singing.
No. These are only subtle changes the system is picking up.

I am using completely different microphones,chains, and set ups with little difference. The Laptop camera audio provides a fine job of it too then huh?

Later , I want to reamp thru my Marshall Stack. Gets some tubes going in there. Then go hybrid to 1/4" tape on the reel, and reamp that to the DAW. See if keeping it analog a bit going to tape, helps.

Or I could try to sing into the headphones, not the mic. See if that changes anything significantly.

HEADPHONES in.

headphonesin.wav - Google Drive
Old 19th April 2019
  #30
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Dude? Are headphones TRS balanced like XLR? Or is each side of the stereo unbalanced. How does that even work as an input? This journey is becoming stranger and stranger.
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