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vocals that sound above the beat? Multi-Effects Processors (HW)
Old 12th April 2019
  #1
Here for the gear
 

vocals that sound above the beat?

hey so it seems like vocals recorded professionally sound like there ontop of the beat even with headphones they kinda sound above you and not infront of you i dont know if its just them taking mid range out the vocals but it sounds like there panning them upwards a little somehow so they flow with the beat and are ontop any ideas how there achieving this ?

if you need examples just listen to any g eazy/logic song
all the pro vocal recordings sound above the beat not in it like home recordings
its not the gear there using because its not the quality of the vocal just like the spacing of the vocal i dont know how i would get vocals more above me with a imager of some sort because its more left to right thankyou
Old 12th April 2019
  #2
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edva's Avatar
High frequencies. No pun intended.
Old 12th April 2019
  #3
Quote:
vocal i dont know how i would get vocals more above me with a imager of some sort because its more left to right thankyou
Placing instruments in a 3D sound stage, including vocals is not just done with panning alone. Its achieved with reverb (a series of short delays), actual delays, and mid and side EQ edits.
Old 13th April 2019
  #4
Gear Guru
 

I automate the lead vocal to within an inch of its life. Literally every word must be heard above the track. But at the same time, I don't want them overpowering the track. I keep them low-ish and the automate up any words or phrases that are getting lost. Or keep them high-ish and automate down any words that are getting too loud.

This is a tightrope walk. It's about attention to detail.

as edva said, some HF boost with EQ can add a 'shine' to the vocal that helps it stand out, even when it's not super-loud

as CJ Mastering said, small rooms and short delays can create a "halo" effect around the vocal that makes it separate out a bit from other tracks that do not have those effects.

sidechain compression is another trick people use. Group all your instruments together on a bus and put a compressor on the bus. Sidechain the compressor to a send from the vocal track. When the vocals come in, the compressor will compress a little and therefore the music will 'duck' a little. Be conservative in your approach to this. You probably don't want to hear it working - like a DJ talking over a record - it should only be noticeable as a slight increase in intelligibility of the voice.
Old 13th April 2019
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

I'm new to terms here but is sidechaining compressor mean it only gets sent to specific parts or tracks of a song?

So it is a process, and can this process be done with any compressor? In my case I have a tc electronic finalizer 96k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I automate the lead vocal to within an inch of its life. Literally every word must be heard above the track. But at the same time, I don't want them overpowering the track. I keep them low-ish and the automate up any words or phrases that are getting lost. Or keep them high-ish and automate down any words that are getting too loud.

This is a tightrope walk. It's about attention to detail.

as edva said, some HF boost with EQ can add a 'shine' to the vocal that helps it stand out, even when it's not super-loud

as CJ Mastering said, small rooms and short delays can create a "halo" effect around the vocal that makes it separate out a bit from other tracks that do not have those effects.

sidechain compression is another trick people use. Group all your instruments together on a bus and put a compressor on the bus. Sidechain the compressor to a send from the vocal track. When the vocals come in, the compressor will compress a little and therefore the music will 'duck' a little. Be conservative in your approach to this. You probably don't want to hear it working - like a DJ talking over a record - it should only be noticeable as a slight increase in intelligibility of the voice.
Old 15th April 2019
  #6
Gear Nut
 
MattiasSwe's Avatar
I also been trying to figure out how to do this for a long time. I never thought the vocals sounded the way it did on professional recordings.
Then i found this plugin Ozone 8 Imager | iZotope Audio Mastering Tools
Works really nice with lifting it a bit.
Old 15th April 2019
  #7
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Sigma's Avatar
I have a blurb on tips and tricks on vocal riding... i've done dozens of major artists some of whom won grammy's for best vocal performance. which i felt i was a part of the process..so check it out and BTW country western music has the most egregious "vocals over track" levels followed by rap OMFG

Last edited by Sigma; 15th April 2019 at 02:59 PM..
Old 15th April 2019
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonxolly View Post
... it sounds like there panning them upwards a little somehow...
I'm surprised nobody has ever asked me to do that.
Old 15th April 2019
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
... BTW country western music has the most egregious "vocals over track" levels followed by rap OMFG
Two things, in reverse order.

1. Artists in those particular genres prioritize lyrics over groove. By a lot, usually.

2. Anyone who includes the "western" isn't a fan. :-)
Old 15th April 2019
  #10
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonxolly
... it sounds like there panning them upwards a little somehow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I'm surprised nobody has ever asked me to do that.
I have a test CD that has the LEDR track
this really can simulate the illusion of something going "higher" and "lower" with just two speakers.

Quote:
Who's behind our LEDR?
The LEDR signals were generated by Northwestern University's Spatial Reverberator, a software program running on an RISC mainframe computer. The spatial reverberator was designed by researchers Gary Kendall and Bill Martens of the Computer Music Department, while the trademarked LEDR test signal is the brainchild of acoustician Doug Jones. These psychoacousticians have been researching what are called "pinna transforms," the way in which the shape of the head and outer ear permit us to hear signal direction. By programming the filter characteristics of the pinna transforms into the spatial reverberator, the Chicagoans can literally move sound around the room, even behind the listener, using only a single pair of loudspeakers placed in front of the listener (footnote 4).


Read more at Take Me to Your LEDR! | Stereophile.com
I do a lesson with my students where I demonstrate the purpose of the pinnae. I have them close their eyes and then point to where I am when I am speaking. Left and right are easily accounted for, but they can also easily tell if I step on a chair or crouch down on the ground. Up and down.
Old 16th April 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiasSwe View Post
I also been trying to figure out how to do this for a long time. I never thought the vocals sounded the way it did on professional recordings.
Then i found this plugin Ozone 8 Imager | iZotope Audio Mastering Tools
Works really nice with lifting it a bit.
and what do you do with ozone 8? the vocals are mono so it doesnt do anything to the vocal?
Old 16th April 2019
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I'm surprised nobody has ever asked me to do that.
lmao i wouldnt know another way of describing it the pros vocals just sound above/behind you compared to amateur mixes which sound down the middle
Old 17th April 2019
  #13
Gear Nut
 
MattiasSwe's Avatar
As it say on the website: Add depth and natural-sounding stereo width to mono.

It works great with making the mono vocals sound more full without creating some kind of double that sounds very phasey like vocal doublers usally do.

You really should try it, also works great on other things you need to get a bit more stereo width on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonxolly View Post
and what do you do with ozone 8? the vocals are mono so it doesnt do anything to the vocal?
Old 17th April 2019
  #14
Gear Nut
 
MattiasSwe's Avatar
If you have a vocal wav i can show you if you want. Just tell me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonxolly View Post
and what do you do with ozone 8? the vocals are mono so it doesnt do anything to the vocal?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
the vocals are mono so it doesnt do anything to the vocal?
All vocals are mono and 90% of the instruments are mono as well. Mono has nothing to do with it. A great mix that has a 3D depth is made of up primarily mono tracks.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Head
 

It's definitely the gear they're using, as there is a lot of different "quality factors" of a good recording, other than it just being clear and intelligible. The characteristics you describe, are more or less a matter of having a good frequency balance - which a lot of professional gear is carefully engineered to deliver a highly usable frequency balance, intended to be as close to "professional ready" as possible. A lot of budget gear, specifically many budget microphones, do not have a balanced enough frequency balance to achieve that professional vocal "tone", however there are some nice cheap ones out there. Then there are factors like harmonic distortion when can add nice dimensionality to the tone that can be hard to understand if you don't know what it sounds like. For many that are unaware, it is these factors which that create that "this sounds better but I don't really know why" impression. Room quality also plays a role, but in my opinion is less important than tonal/frequency balance.

Naturally, high end gear is not the only way to achieve these nice tonal qualities. A knowledgeable audio engineer could make virtually any cheap microphone sound professional-ready with enough of the right cheap gear (EQ's, compressors, color boxes for harmonic distortion), etc - it's just tuning these things properly requires a sufficient understanding of acoustics and sound mechanics. The pleasant sound of most high end gear is mostly the product of an intelligently designed well tuned circuit that accounts for all these factors, with the most expensive gear tending to have better quality control from unit to unit. Note: there are severe limits to the modifications you can do with digital editing due to signal noise ratio, limits that do not really exist when manipulating analog signals.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

I think hip hop producer Rick Rubin, who also produces metal bands did similar things for metal icons Slayer, by having vocals over tracks, which worked well on their albums produced by Rubin.

Is raising vocal tracks what was done or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
I have a blurb on tips and tricks on vocal riding... i've done dozens of major artists some of whom won grammy's for best vocal performance. which i felt i was a part of the process..so check it out and BTW country western music has the most egregious "vocals over track" levels followed by rap OMFG
Old 3 weeks ago
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
no clue..what i do is play my mix as low as possible [slowly lowering volume]..i was taught the lead vocal and snare drum was the last thing you should hear before silence..
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