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Why do people hate overly tuned vocals? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #511
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Sometimes I think the production and delivery of Britney's biggest hits actually disguised the quality of the song itself

Quote:
Travis - Baby One More Time - Live cover for VH1 Storytellers - YouTube



Travis cover Britney Spears' Hit Me Baby One More Time for VH1 Storytellers
Old 1 week ago
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
Sometimes I think the production and delivery of Britney's biggest hits actually disguised the quality of the song itself
Nice, perfect example on that point. The huge songs like this, that'll likely fall in the "timeless" category for at least a few generations, are generally quite good songs in and of themselves. Putting production preferences aside. .
Old 1 week ago
  #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
Sometimes I think the production and delivery of Britney's biggest hits actually disguised the quality of the song itself
I dunno . . went back and listened to the schoolgirl singin' it . . . .

it's a pretty nice recording! Great background vocals, nice arrangement. Still, it could have been any diva singing it. But B had the look and the moves for the video, so . . . .
Old 1 week ago
  #514
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@joeq you’re right about what it means to have a too “open” mind as the key is to be discerning in regards to taste.
Old 1 week ago
  #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
I dunno . . went back and listened to the schoolgirl singin' it . . . .

it's a pretty nice recording! Great background vocals, nice arrangement. Still, it could have been any diva singing it. But B had the look and the moves for the video, so . . . .
Hmmm....for some reason I'm not really believing that she's lonely and heartbroken, she just doesn't have that 'lonely, heartbroken' look about her.
Old 1 week ago
  #516
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Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Oh, certainly there's no argument that I prefer one thing or another. But as to that thing's value, it's anybody's choice.

I can't prove music x is more "valuable" than music y to anyone but myself.
I don't agree that "value" is purely subjective. It'd be like saying that as long as you don't value getting medical help to deal with depression for example it is by definition of no value to you. I fundamentally agree with that.
Old 6 days ago
  #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
I've had decades of exposure to pop (include C&W here) garbage...
Folks who include the "... &W" seem to have a negative predisposition toward a tradition I personally cherish. But with that said, you're not wrong. Main thing being that there are still artful practitioners, even young ones, but you won't hear most of them on the radio.
Old 6 days ago
  #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Folks who include the "... &W" seem to have a negative predisposition toward a tradition I personally cherish. But with that said, you're not wrong. Main thing being that there are still artful practitioners, even young ones, but you won't hear most of them on the radio.
Oh don't get me wrong - I love me some Hank Jr. and a little Merle Haggard and plenty of George Jones. And Buck Owens. But man, the stuff being churned out of (Nashville?) these days is just the same garbage with a stupid hat on.
Old 6 days ago
  #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Generally, you have to WANT to acquire the taste.
what an all-purpose baloney excuse
anytime anyone says:

"I gave (insert lame pop fluff, or unimaginative genre here) a decent try and I still don't like it"

all you have to do is come along and say: "well, you obviously didn't WANT to acquire the taste"

Quote:
I had to WANT to learn to like coffee when I was younger, acquiring a taste takes some effort in pushing against your natural response to it (when it came to coffee, it looked cool to drink, it was what "mature" people drank, so I actively wanted to develop a taste for it despite not liking its taste initially). Had I not pushed past this, I'd be one of those people who never like coffee.
what you credit to your awesome willpower and sublime open-mindedness, I would attribute to the drug caffeine present in the coffee. If you had been drinking exclusively decaf during that period, you would still be one of those people - it would still be just another weird taste to you. Almost every person who drinks decaf is a former caffeine user. They have acquired the taste because of an association with the drug.

Scotch is an acquired taste as well. The association with alcohol cements the positive feelings about the taste. Not because it looks cool or because your "willpower" overcomes the originally off-putting flavor.
Old 6 days ago
  #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
what an all-purpose baloney excuse
anytime anyone says:

"I gave (insert lame pop fluff, or unimaginative genre here) a decent try and I still don't like it"

all you have to do is come along and say: "well, you obviously didn't WANT to acquire the taste"



what you credit to your awesome willpower and sublime open-mindedness, I would attribute to the drug caffeine present in the coffee. If you had been drinking exclusively decaf during that period, you would still be one of those people - it would still be just another weird taste to you. Almost every person who drinks decaf is a former caffeine user. They have acquired the taste because of an association with the drug.

Scotch is an acquired taste as well. The association with alcohol cements the positive feelings about the taste. Not because it looks cool or because your "willpower" overcomes the originally off-putting flavor.
I don't know all the ins and outs of acquiring taste and could care less about going down the "but what about" road with you yet again on this side-topic. Swap coffee with sushi, or raw oysters, or kimchi, or olives, or electronic music, etc etc and its the same story for me minus the caffeine.

I just know that if clear positive human interest in something exists (that you don't like), and you want to like it too, you generally can with some effort on your part. Tastes of all kinds can be acquired through effort and exposure.
Old 6 days ago
  #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
I just know that if clear positive human interest in something exists (that you don't like), and you want to like it too, you generally can with some effort on your part. Tastes of all kinds can be acquired through effort and exposure.
Since I am continually bombarded by pop music in public places, I would love nothing more than to "acquire" a taste for it. It would go a long way toward preserving my sanity. But it's just not going to happen.

And for some people, no amount of "effort and exposure" will get them to like raw fish, although I will say that even though I hate sushi, I'd rather eat it than have to listen to the aural pabulum coming over the PA.
Old 6 days ago
  #522
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Is that Sushi and the bansees?
Old 6 days ago
  #523
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Originally Posted by clump View Post
Is that Sushi and the bansees?
Sushi and the Bananas

to a formerly disliked boots 'n' pants beat.
Old 6 days ago
  #524
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s wave's Avatar
aquired taste

Anything can be appreciated and/or learned from. There is no more cutting edge music than the position of pop music. (just like fashion trends or interior design or painting or architecture) What is current NOW or the near future is the bleeding edge of culture and society; and progressive art. If one is inspired by past or ancient genres; I see nothing wrong with that. Sometimes genres will repeat or rear its head in unbelievable ways. Baroque-rock or Bach-rock are good examples (Left Banke). Politics aside, who can not be intrigued by why one type of particular sound becomes popular. The top 10 most popular songs of today will not be the same in the very new future. Not only does the taste change but the audience and equipment changes. I am going to go out on a limb here and make a prediction. I believe that the biggest change that will hit the music industry in decades will be ANS. It will allow non musicians (those without any clue of musical theory) to be able write (paint is more like it) hit songs. I know of no one who thinks this will happen (except possibly the inventors). I can't see a reason why it will not happen.
Old 6 days ago
  #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
ANS. It will allow non musicians (those without any clue of musical theory) to be able write (paint is more like it) hit songs. I know of no one who thinks this will happen (except possibly the inventors). I can't see a reason why it will not happen.
You must have missed it on this forum then.

I agree with your prediction and I think it'll be a sad day when it happens.
Old 6 days ago
  #526
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Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
I just know that if clear positive human interest in something exists (that you don't like), and you want to like it too, you generally can with some effort on your part. Tastes of all kinds can be acquired through effort and exposure.
Why would you want to live your life like that though? You have to be told what you should like? Life is too short, if you don't like something, maybe focus your energy on something you do like?
Old 6 days ago
  #527
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Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
Why would you want to live your life like that though? You have to be told what you should like? Life is too short, if you don't like something, maybe focus your energy on something you do like?
Up to the person how they wish to live their life, of course. I'm not on a constant quest to expand my interests, I just know it can be done, and sometimes choose this kind of challenge for the discipline/personal growth exercises I've always got going on. Not right now though, my current discipline challenge is a Sunday afternoon exercise thing at something I've never done until a few months ago. Usually they're more directly exercise/health related like that, sometimes a new educational topic or "good for me" book I don't immediately want to read, sometimes expanding interest and appreciation. Anything that challenges and forces discipline.

(There's no "have to be told what to like" to what I'm saying though.)

The point to all this is that once you acquire the taste of a new values system, you're more able to appreciate and enjoy things that fall within the values system. Since modern music has a different set of values than music of the past, I can see why fans of past music have a hard time imagining that it'll stand the test of time, since its not delivering to them what they've historically sought in music. But those who are tuned into modern values will love it for life and pass it along to the next generation, giving the best of modern music the same timeless thing as music from any other time period in modern history.
Old 6 days ago
  #528
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2 Great Books

The Physics of Miracles & Dweller on Two Planets
Old 5 days ago
  #529
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God the delusional **** i've read in this thread. No, not everyone can acquire a taste for everything. Literally, if I go to the doctors office, to a supermarket, to a CVS I have to hear pop music. I'd rather like it than not and i'm exposed to it whether I like it or not.

It just sucks, and even its proponents (that is, proponents of RECENT pop music) abandon it after a short number of years. That says more than enough about the fact that it's built 'not to bother' the average person. The average wanna-be engineer or industry drone, on the other hand, has to pretend to LIKE it.

This thread is exhibit A.

It's made to earn money. As such, it's made to bother the least number of people. Musicians are not the majority and I happen to be one. That doesn't mean it's made for anyone to ENJOY it.
Old 5 days ago
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by untitled73 View Post
It's made to earn money. As such, it's made to bother the least number of people. Musicians are not the majority and I happen to be one. That doesn't mean it's made for anyone to ENJOY it.
Bingo! Thanks for sharing this. I always feel like a pariah at the mall, airport, etc. I feel like I'm the only one who is suffering from the toxic crap oozing from the overhead speakers.
Old 5 days ago
  #531
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Indeed.
To be hugely successful one needs to be massively mediocre.

Of course there rules without exceptions but in the music business, as in others, they are few and far between.
Old 5 days ago
  #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.F.F. View Post
Indeed.
To be hugely successful one needs to be massively mediocre.
perhaps for an artist! The writers and the performers.

for support staff - engineers, producers, session musicians, photographers, stylists, above-average skill is generally still valuable. Of course to get to work with mediocre artists, their staff has to embrace their mediocrity.

Acquire the taste, to coin a phrase.
Old 5 days ago
  #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by untitled73 View Post
It's made to earn money. As such, it's made to bother the least number of people. Musicians are not the majority and I happen to be one. That doesn't mean it's made for anyone to ENJOY it.
While its made to make money, there isn't any successful music out there that doesn't come from a place of passion from the creators.

You'll find the most passionless moneygrubbing going on in commercial library music and knockoff song to-order music (and not even that great a moneygrubbing attempt, its usually low end stuff), but not the charts. Max Martin loves what he does. You can't discount the love people have for the music they create that emotionally affect millions upon millions of people, you've got blinders on if you think this.
Old 5 days ago
  #534
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I'm not so sure that all creators of successful music love what they create, a lot of them are targeting a particular market.

I've worked with people who have actually said things like "Well I wouldn't buy it but....."
Old 5 days ago
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
I'm not so sure that all creators of successful music love what they create...
In the jingle world, that would be just about all of them. I used to work with several millionaire jingle producers whose dream was to make "real" records of music they actually liked. Ironic because prior to jingles, most of them made their first big money from hugely successful bubblegum records which they at least claimed to have hated. Ohio Express, 1910 Fruitgum Co., Archies, Cyrkle, folks like that.
Old 5 days ago
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
I'm not so sure that all creators of successful music love what they create, a lot of them are targeting a particular market.

I've worked with people who have actually said things like "Well I wouldn't buy it but....."
But they love the process of getting into the psychology of a targeted market, finding a way to emotionally connect with that audience, and delivering something completely on point and in the pocket in all respects. I personally love this kind of stuff.

Its like those who make Pixar movies. Yeah they're targeting a clear younger demographic, but so what? Just because there's a clear target doesn't mean you can't love creating things for it. Aiming for a target doesn't diminish the love involved, it just ups the degree of challenge involved.
Old 5 days ago
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
In the jingle world, that would be just about all of them. I used to work with several millionaire jingle producers whose dream was to make "real" records of music they actually liked. Ironic because prior to jingles, most of them made their first big money from hugely successful bubblegum records which they at least claimed to have hated. Ohio Express, 1910 Fruitgum Co., Archies, Cyrkle, folks like that.
Yep.

"You'll find the most passionless moneygrubbing going on in commercial library music and knockoff song to-order music"
Old 5 days ago
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Yep.

"You'll find the most passionless moneygrubbing going on in commercial library music and knockoff song to-order music"
In my experience it was a 'serious artist' writing and performing their own songs.
Old 5 days ago
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
But they love the process of getting into the psychology of a targeted market, finding a way to emotionally connect with that audience, and delivering something completely on point and in the pocket in all respects. I personally love this kind of stuff.
Nope....unfortunately the incentive was purely cash.....if anything they were contemptuous of their 'market'.

Sad but true.
Old 5 days ago
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
Nope....unfortunately the incentive was purely cash.....if anything they were contemptuous of their 'market'.

Sad but true.
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