The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
2 mixing questions
Old 8th November 2018
  #1
Gear Maniac
2 mixing questions

At 10:46 he mentions that his synths are panned hard left and right (and that they have center?).. to me it looks based on the meters for the synths that they are stereo. if it was panned hard left or right wouldn't just the left or right meter be jumping up and down? having a hard time wrapping my head around this.

also, around 15:05 he talks about riding the volume for effects (what does this mean exactly?).. does this just make reverb or whichever effect louder? what good does this do between sections of songs?

Here is the video link: YouTube
Old 8th November 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
At 10:46 he mentions that his synths are panned hard left and right (and that they have center?).. to me it looks based on the meters for the synths that they are stereo. if it was panned hard left or right wouldn't just the left or right meter be jumping up and down? having a hard time wrapping my head around this.
They are stereo and by panning them hard left and right you keep the broad stereo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
also, around 15:05 he talks about riding the volume for effects (what does this mean exactly?).. does this just make reverb or whichever effect louder? what good does this do between sections of songs?
Yes, and more present at times.

p.s.
Great tip I once heard, to get great stereo don't put everythink in stereo.
Old 8th November 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
At 10:46 he mentions that his synths are panned hard left and right (and that they have center?).. to me it looks based on the meters for the synths that they are stereo. if it was panned hard left or right wouldn't just the left or right meter be jumping up and down? having a hard time wrapping my head around this.

also, around 15:05 he talks about riding the volume for effects (what does this mean exactly?).. does this just make reverb or whichever effect louder? what good does this do between sections of songs?
[/url]
1. He's using stereo synths. They are hard panned left and right naturally (they're stereo tracks). "They have a center" is a confusing way of saying "this left and right is the same synth with stereo effects on it". Whenever the left and right share the same info, that will be in the center, or mono, or in both speaker simultaneously. Depends on how you like to use your words.

2. "riding the volume for effects" means he's automating the effect send level on a channel. So during the chorus he's increasing the send level to his reverbs, delays, etc.
Old 8th November 2018
  #4
Quote:
he mentions that his synths are panned hard left and right (and that they have center?).. to me it looks based on the meters for the synths that they are stereo. if it was panned hard left or right wouldn't just the left or right meter be jumping up and down? having a hard time wrapping my head around this.
He says they are panned hard left and hard right acoording to you, and you are saying 'if its only panned hard left OR hard right"
when they are panned left and right, is different form just being panned left or right, as you are saying.
Quote:
also, around 15:05 he talks about riding the volume for effects (what does this mean exactly?).. does this just make reverb or whichever effect louder? what good does this do between sections of songs?
Think of it like an automated compressor, but you are using the sends or the track fader instead of a comp.
Its pretty common to automate the send levels when you are mixing a song
Old 9th November 2018
  #5
Gear Maniac
1. the question I asked about 10:46 is still a bit confusing to me because based on what I see visually on the meters of each synth track, it does not seem like they are panned hard left or right (picture below from video). I'm used to using ableton and when I take a stereo file and pan all the way to one side only 1 of 2 meters shows action (picture below from my ableton session).

aside from my misunderstanding and this is how I think it works based on your responses..

2. Warren is taking a stereo synth sound and panning it hard left & taking another stereo synth sound and paining hard right to make the track sound wider in chorus as opposed to having just one or both synths down the middle.

2a. Also if you pan two synth sounds hard left and hard right it only becomes stereo if the synth sounds are only somewhat unique correct?

3. What elements is Warren making the synths both share to have a center? Because I can't seem to figure it out after re-watching the video several times. Maybe looking at the pro tools image I posted below from Warren's session can help answer this?

4. Lastly when you pan a stereo sound hard left or right it becomes mono right?

Thanks for helping me answer these question even if they seem really basic to you. I'm trying my best to have a good understanding of this things especially if I plan on teaching techniques to others someday.
Attached Thumbnails
2 mixing questions-screen-shot-2018-11-08-4.17.07-pm.jpg   2 mixing questions-screen-shot-2018-11-08-4.25.59-pm.jpg  
Old 9th November 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
4. Lastly when you pan a stereo sound hard left or right it becomes mono right?
I would forget about warren for a moment and think about what stereo is. stereo = the difference between left and right speakers. Back in time, listeners only had one speaker. That's mono. Two speakers with the same information: also mono but with two speakers. Two speakers with different information coming out of each: stereo.

So if you take a guitar and pan it left and nothing is coming out of the right speaker, that's still stereo because it's not in the center. If you happen to lose the right speaker, it reverts back to mono because there's only one speaker and it becomes the center.

So stereo is the difference between the left and right speakers. "centered" sounds are sounds coming through equally on the left and right. In other words, there is no difference between left and right.

Back to warren: he's working with "stereo" synths. how stereo they really are is how different they are between left to right. that could be a lot, or that could be a little. It looks pretty minimal based on the screen shots of his tracks. SUBJECTIVE: A great stereo spread is one that sounds spacious yet not too annoying. It's totally subjective but i would experiment with what he did with guitars: placing it on one side and it's reverb on the other. It's minimal but great. Then fill in the other side with another instrument that complements it.
Old 9th November 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
I guess the confusion starts with pro-tools and other DAW's.
In pro tools stereo tracks have two (one for left and one for right) panners.
Old 9th November 2018
  #8
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
1. the question I asked about 10:46 is still a bit confusing to me because based on what I see visually on the meters of each synth track, it does not seem like they are panned hard left or right (picture below from video). I'm used to using ableton and when I take a stereo file and pan all the way to one side only 1 of 2 meters shows action (picture below from my ableton session).
Like BT said it's about how panning works in the DAW + how this guy expressed himself. With one panner for left and one for right you can set both to center on a stereo track and effectively end up with a mono signal. What he's saying is that by panning the left channel hard left and the right channel hard right (both in a stereo channel actually, see Pro Tools screenshot above) he is indeed "hard panning" both channels of a synth.

You seem to be thinking that he's saying that each synth has both of its stereo channels panned hard to one side. That's not what he's saying I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
4. Lastly when you pan a stereo sound hard left or right it becomes mono right?
Yes.
Old 11th November 2018
  #9
Gear Maniac
two different answers D;

@ goldi

"So if you take a guitar and pan it left and nothing is coming out of the right speaker, that's still stereo because it's not in the center."

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
4. Lastly when you pan a stereo sound hard left or right it becomes mono right?
@ mattiasnyc

"Yes."
Old 11th November 2018
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
two different answers D;

@ goldi

"So if you take a guitar and pan it left and nothing is coming out of the right speaker, that's still stereo because it's not in the center."

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
4. Lastly when you pan a stereo sound hard left or right it becomes mono right?
@ mattiasnyc

"Yes."
both are correct. panned mono sounds = stereo. free your mind..
Old 11th November 2018
  #11
Gear Maniac
still having a little trouble wrapping my mind around this.. :(
Old 11th November 2018
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
still having a little trouble wrapping my mind around this.. :(
Which part exactly?
Old 11th November 2018
  #13
Deleted c0657d7
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
two different answers D;

@ goldi

"So if you take a guitar and pan it left and nothing is coming out of the right speaker, that's still stereo because it's not in the center."

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
4. Lastly when you pan a stereo sound hard left or right it becomes mono right?
@ mattiasnyc

"Yes."
It is only confusing when it is not clear whether one is talking about the SOURCE being mono or stereo, or one is talking about the MIX.
The first poster is talking about the mix, while the second poster is talking about the source.

So, the stereo sound panned to the same position, becomes a mono SOURCE, but within the context of the MIX it may stiil be/sound stereo.


**I'm not sure though about the "being stereo, as long as it is not in the center" part.
This is only true IMO as long as the signal is NOT hard panned.
While the signal is panned between center and either extremes, the stereophonic/locational information exists betwween the two speakers, but the monent that the signal only comes from one speaker/side, there's no stereo information anymore, so I would be inclined to say that it is mono at that point (single speaker mono).
**
Old 11th November 2018
  #14
Gear Maniac
I just discovered split stereo pan mode in Ableton Live 10...

@ Prodba

So in the image I posted below from pro tools what exactly is going on? So I'm assuming what used to be in the left channel is now appearing in the right and silence in the left channel? Or would you have to turn the left channel panner all the way to the right to 100 for absolutely silence in the left channel?
Attached Thumbnails
2 mixing questions-screen-shot-2018-11-11-12.31.11-pm.png  
Old 11th November 2018
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
So in the image I posted below from pro tools what exactly is going on? So I'm assuming what used to be in the left channel is now appearing in the right and silence in the left channel?
Not silence, softer in the left (31% softer left then right) for the left source.
The right source is panned 100% to the right (and so nothing to the left).

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
Or would you have to turn the left channel panner all the way to the right to 100 for absolutely silence in the left channel?
Correct, these are two panners, one for each channel (left and Right) of the source.
So you can pan the left channel anywhere and same for the right channel of the source.
Old 11th November 2018
  #16
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
two different answers D;

@ goldi

"So if you take a guitar and pan it left and nothing is coming out of the right speaker, that's still stereo because it's not in the center."

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletree View Post
4. Lastly when you pan a stereo sound hard left or right it becomes mono right?
@ mattiasnyc

"Yes."
You just have to keep track of things along the signal path and think about what part of the signal chain you're talking about.

So start by thinking of one single mono audio track with one recorded instrument, say a guitar. The instrument signal that flows through that track is mono. Nothing is going to change that by panning it.

Now, that mono guitar track has an output. Let's say that you're mixing to stereo, so your main/master output is stereo. So, your guitar audio track has the output set to the stereo master output. You now get a panner on that guitar audio track. That guitar signal is still mono "as a source".

- If the mono guitar track panner is now set to center what you will end up with is two channels that are identical at the end of the signal chain, i.e. the master stereo output. If you create an audio file/mixdown of that one instrument you could maybe think of the audio file as a stereo audio file, because it has a left and a right channel, but the signal in the file is actually mono. It's just that it's the same in both channels....

-----------

If you now have another instrument audio track, also mono, and it too goes to the stereo master output you can pan the two instruments hard left for the first one and hard right for the second. So if the second is a vocal you can guitar panned fully left and the vocal fully right. Your final output in the master is stereo. Your guitar and vocal are respectively still mono. Mono panned into a stereo output. You can create a stereo audio file that when you look at it all together is stereo music, but each instrument individually is still mono.

-----------

In the image you just posted you have a Pro Tools stereo track. That track has two channels. As you can see there is one panner for each channel in that stereo track. It might help to think of this as two mono channels in one "wrapper". If you think of the above two examples you should see that just because the audio track has two channels it doesn't mean that the "source" signal in that track is stereo or mono. It simply depends.

However, if you have a stereo instrument on that stereo audio track and in Pro Tools you pull both of those panners fully right for example then what ends up coming out of that stereo track is a mono signal (fully right). In fact, any time BOTH panners have THE SAME location in the sound field you are ending up with a mono source going to your output, it's just that it's different amounts of the same signal in both channels.

Last edited by mattiasnyc; 11th November 2018 at 10:57 PM.. Reason: edited for clarity.... like.. maybe...
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump