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Producing and Treating elements of a mix (question)
Old 12th August 2018
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Producing and Treating elements of a mix (question)

I am trying to understand the elements of a mix and also had some producing questions so I know how to mix it no matter what is being played. questions:

- is a sub bass = 808?? or is a sub bass=a sub bass ???? and how do you know when to use a sub bass or a 808 when producing?

- Should you ever have a 808, sub bass and bass elements playing in a song?

- I know you need a element like a synth or a guitar playing a melody and another playing a chord progression but do you need other harmonies as well playing harmonies? if so how many?
Old 13th August 2018
  #2
Gear Head
 

I’m not certain that I understand the question... are we talking a specific genre here?

A song will typically have a bass element (could be a synth, an electric bass or an upright or even a tuba!). A good beginners approach would be a bass line that follows the root of the chords and the bass drum (eg playing on 1 and 3 for a 4/4 song). But there’s really no rules. Play what ever instrument and notes that sounds nice.

Then you can have other instruments following the chord progression or melody. Again just experiment. Don’t focus on a number of instruments or which instruments should play what. Focus on what sounds good and keep it simple.
Old 15th August 2018
  #3
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAMBEAU View Post
I am trying to understand the elements of a mix and also had some producing questions so I know how to mix it no matter what is being played. :
there is no mixing advice that tells you what to do no matter what is being played. The whole deal with mixing is doing what is required for the song. This is genre-independent. Your job as a mixer is to present the material on the tracks in the best possible light, to "frame" it as it were.

In some cases, I have even interpreted my mandate as a mixer to include deleting some of the tracks if they got in the way.

Quote:
- is a sub bass = 808?? or is a sub bass=a sub bass ???? and how do you know when to use a sub bass or a 808 when producing?
For "when" you might want to ask this over at the hip-hop forum. There may be some genre-specific things that are popular, even if they are not "required". Within the HipHop that I have worked on, there seems to be too much variation to take a question like "how do you know when to use" too seriously.

From a generalized point of view, this is a creative decision on the part of the person composing the track.

"808" is really just shorthand for a type of kick drum sound that was made popular by the 808 drum machine. It is pretty much just a short low-frequency sine wave. If it lasts longer, and played some different pitches, you would probably be inclined to call it a "bass" and not a kick drum. If it lasts longer and plays a really low note, maybe you could call it a "sub-bass". And if it was short and punchy you might call it a "kick".

Some beats don't really have a "bass" so the 808 (with longer sustain) might take the place of a bass. Some songs don't really have a kick drum and the 808 takes the place of the kick. You have to think about 2 things. The "sonic footprint" of the instrument but also its function in the arrangement.

Quote:
- Should you ever have a 808, sub bass and bass elements playing in a song?
How similar are they? What part of the frequency spectrum does each occupy? When you have several instruments occupying the exact same space in your mix, it's going to be "messy". I would say if a sustain-y sub bass or 808 is acting like a "bass" then your "kick" should be higher and perhaps attack-ier. Most of these sounds are synthetic in hip-hop production, So they can be tuned higher and lower quite easily.

You should be able to hear it when different sounds are in conflict, when they are fighting for the same space in the mix. When they are barely "different" at all, that's usually a sign of bad arranging.
Quote:
- I know you need a element like a synth or a guitar playing a melody and another playing a chord progression but do you need other harmonies as well playing harmonies? if so how many?
four
you need four harmonies exactly, not three and not five

again, I am sure there must be a genre so narrow that they specify a specific number of required harmonies, but even in very commercialized styles, there is variation. From artist to artist, from song to song. It's Music, for heaven's sake. You are not building a car. A car must have 2 low beams and 2 high beam headlights in order to be Street Legal. A song can have whatever you want. Do whatever you feel like, whatever sounds best with the other elements. Invent your own style if you like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninecows View Post
. Focus on what sounds good and keep it simple.
amen
Old 16th August 2018
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
there is no mixing advice that tells you what to do no matter what is being played. The whole deal with mixing is doing what is required for the song. This is genre-independent. Your job as a mixer is to present the material on the tracks in the best possible light, to "frame" it as it were.

In some cases, I have even interpreted my mandate as a mixer to include deleting some of the tracks if they got in the way.


For "when" you might want to ask this over at the hip-hop forum. There may be some genre-specific things that are popular, even if they are not "required". Within the HipHop that I have worked on, there seems to be too much variation to take a question like "how do you know when to use" too seriously.

From a generalized point of view, this is a creative decision on the part of the person composing the track.

"808" is really just shorthand for a type of kick drum sound that was made popular by the 808 drum machine. It is pretty much just a short low-frequency sine wave. If it lasts longer, and played some different pitches, you would probably be inclined to call it a "bass" and not a kick drum. If it lasts longer and plays a really low note, maybe you could call it a "sub-bass". And if it was short and punchy you might call it a "kick".

Some beats don't really have a "bass" so the 808 (with longer sustain) might take the place of a bass. Some songs don't really have a kick drum and the 808 takes the place of the kick. You have to think about 2 things. The "sonic footprint" of the instrument but also its function in the arrangement.

How similar are they? What part of the frequency spectrum does each occupy? When you have several instruments occupying the exact same space in your mix, it's going to be "messy". I would say if a sustain-y sub bass or 808 is acting like a "bass" then your "kick" should be higher and perhaps attack-ier. Most of these sounds are synthetic in hip-hop production, So they can be tuned higher and lower quite easily.

You should be able to hear it when different sounds are in conflict, when they are fighting for the same space in the mix. When they are barely "different" at all, that's usually a sign of bad arranging.


four
you need four harmonies exactly, not three and not five

again, I am sure there must be a genre so narrow that they specify a specific number of required harmonies, but even in very commercialized styles, there is variation. From artist to artist, from song to song. It's Music, for heaven's sake. You are not building a car. A car must have 2 low beams and 2 high beam headlights in order to be Street Legal. A song can have whatever you want. Do whatever you feel like, whatever sounds best with the other elements. Invent your own style if you like.


amen
dude thank you for this. like seriously. I feel like alot of beginniers like me want to start mixing but we should really master arrangement first. thank you! I see now that I am thinking of music way way to technical.
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