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The "Old school" sound Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 10th January 2017
  #31
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
you would think with all that money in the budget for drugs, they could afford a 50 cent piece
the blow was a big part of the sound!
seriously though,coke ears definitely affected mix decisions..lol
Old 10th January 2017
  #32
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

The blow certainly sold a LOT of studio time!
Old 10th January 2017
  #33
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonel View Post
Sorry if I sounded negative, I didn't mean to imply that something can not be done.

I'm loving this thread and I hope we can gather lots of information on how it was done back then. My dream is to do what you're doing right now, and ideally I hope to capture the production and the style as well.
No offense taken! I actually wrote my comment in a good spirit so it's all good, and cool to hear, i indeed hope too that everyone can benefit from this thread.

And if the cocaine is part of the sound, i'll be more than willing to leave that aspect out right away.
Old 11th January 2017
  #34
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
the blow was a big part of the sound!
seriously though,coke ears definitely affected mix decisions..lol
don't try this at home kids!
Old 11th January 2017
  #35
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
don't try this at home kids!
Or your records will sound like "Crazy Train"!!
Old 11th January 2017
  #36
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

You're going to need at least twenty mics. And that's just for the drums.
Old 11th January 2017
  #37
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
You're going to need at least twenty mics. And that's just for the drums.
If you read the thread i'm going to use superior, i will mic vocals and guitars only, i will play bass DI too.
Old 11th January 2017
  #38
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simppu View Post
Well britpop and indie have definitely influenced the today's records, hence the boring hooks and dull melodies imo.
Despite that those don't belong to the genres I like to listen to, I do think that they already did a "step back" in the "sound quality evolution" - sometimes I think "you're vintage-izing and lo-fi'ing your sound just to hide the lack of talent"

But that's a matter of taste I guess.
Old 12th January 2017
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by S1GNL View Post
Despite that those don't belong to the genres I like to listen to, I do think that they already did a "step back" in the "sound quality evolution" - sometimes I think "you're vintage-izing and lo-fi'ing your sound just to hide the lack of talent"

But that's a matter of taste I guess.
I work in what is considered the lo fi realm, though I get good results.

The reality is, any of this isn't hiding whether or not you suck. I hear modern productions with a boat load of tuning on the vocals and think the same thing
Old 12th January 2017
  #40
Gear Nut
 

I'd dare to say that there's a lot more tuning and editing on vocals these days that there were before. Not to forget that how many of the artists are singing live over a vocal included backing track these days.
Old 12th January 2017
  #41
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

FWIW: vocal editing and tuning has been done since the early '50s. Modern vocal punching and comping as SOP along with occasional tuning began in the early '60s at Motown.

Today, in 20-20 hindsight, I oppose it because I learned doing broadcasts in the '70s that working live without headphones eliminated most of the need for it. Later experiments in the '80s determined that recording singers to speakers all but eliminated the need for tuning and improved performances dramatically. I think our entire industry got lost in a head trip about how vocals "should" be done.
Old 12th January 2017
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
FWIW: vocal editing and tuning has been done since the early '50s. Modern vocal punching and comping as SOP along with occasional tuning began in the early '60s at Motown.

Today, in 20-20 hindsight, I oppose it because I learned doing broadcasts in the '70s that working live without headphones eliminated most of the need for it. Later experiments in the '80s determined that recording singers to speakers all but eliminated the need for tuning and improved performances dramatically. I think our entire industry got lost in a head trip about how vocals "should" be done.
How did you tune vocals in that era?
Old 12th January 2017
  #43
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

You played a phrase out to another recorder, changed the speed up or down and then punched the replacement in. We also had the Eltro Information Rate Changer although I never took the time to learn it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eltro_...n_Rate_Changer.

Like virtually everything else we do, it originated in film sound.
Old 12th January 2017
  #44
Here for the gear
 

Say if you're recording and mixing in-the-box, asking the experts here, which three techniques (recording and mixing) could one apply to emulate that old 80's sound? Maybe a technique that has been discarded or fallen out of fashion? Maybe a dumb question...but we're in the newbies section here.
Old 12th January 2017
  #45
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Recording as an ensemble or at least rhythm section and overdubbing the vocals and solos
Recording without headphones in an acoustical balance (From before the late 1960s)
Editing complete takes.
Old 12th January 2017
  #46
Lives for gear
 
norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
. Later experiments in the '80s determined that recording singers to speakers all but eliminated the need for tuning and improved performances dramatically..
Until you want to put a little delay on the vocal, and find that it's also on the spill from the snare drum . . . .
Old 12th January 2017
  #47
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

You already have nice delay from the speaker. A trick is to record one pass without any singing but with the singer in place so that you can mix it in out of phase with the vocal.
Old 13th January 2017
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
You already have nice delay from the speaker. A trick is to record one pass without any singing but with the singer in place so that you can mix it in out of phase with the vocal.
That IS a good trick. The one I always loved was how you'd put the singer behind the engineer and flip the phase on one speaker and run everything in mono, nulls out by the time it gets to the singer.
Old 13th January 2017
  #49
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

I never found the out of phase speaker thing to work nearly as well as the other way.
Old 13th January 2017
  #50
Gear Nut
 

What if i try to record superior drummer from the speakers, will i get a nice delay with it?

Old 13th January 2017
  #51
Gear Maniac
 
roaringwave's Avatar
Recording in a nice live room to me is 90% of the trick to getting that ol' school sound. The room that you record in will be the key factor IMO. YMMV
Old 13th January 2017
  #52
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roaringwave View Post
Recording in a nice live room to me is 90% of the trick to getting that ol' school sound. The room that you record in will be the key factor IMO. YMMV
A lot of records even today are recorded in nice rooms and even they don't have the sound.
Old 13th January 2017
  #53
Gear Maniac
 
roaringwave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simppu View Post
A lot of records even today are recorded in nice rooms and even they don't have the sound.
Well I was only trying to give you some advice of what I think would be the most meaningful thing. The room along with mic techniques should do the trick. Also don't forget great musicianship. Working itb trying to get 'that' sound that you want will more than likely be very elusive unless you are a great engineer or lucky. Take your pick. The room is the key to me. Ask any professional. Btw keep the insults to yourself please
Old 13th January 2017
  #54
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roaringwave View Post
Well I was only trying to give you some advice of what I think would be the most meaningful thing. The room along with mic techniques should do the trick. Also don't forget great musicianship. Working itb trying to get 'that' sound that you want will more than likely be very elusive unless you are a great engineer or lucky. Take your pick. The room is the key to me. Ask any professional. Btw keep the insults to yourself please
Technology in recording and production has evolved so much that the difference between hardware and software now is so small (atleast for me) that it is a no brainer to go itb if you're starting today. Also room simulations and reverbs can really add room to your sound and give your records a good vibe.

The only thing that i'm not fond of in modelling are the guitar modellers or profilers so i'm using a real amp for that.

No insulting intended, i just expressed a differing opinion that's part of the forums like this.
Old 13th January 2017
  #55
Gear Maniac
 
roaringwave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simppu View Post
Technology in recording and production has evolved so much that the difference between hardware and software now is so small (atleast for me) that it is a no brainer to go itb if you're starting today. Also room simulations and reverbs can really add room to your sound and give your records a good vibe.

The only thing that i'm not fond of in modelling are the guitar modellers or profilers so i'm using a real amp for that.

No insulting intended, i just expressed a differing opinion that's part of the forums like this.
Yeah the gap between hardware\software is getting thinner. I record itb but I utilize a live room. It is like night and day. Instruments like air and mics best to me. I have a vintage audiotronic board with great pres. But the electrical bills from the analog gear tears a hole in my pockets. Lol
Old 13th January 2017
  #56
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roaringwave View Post
Well I was only trying to give you some advice of what I think would be the most meaningful thing. The room along with mic techniques should do the trick. Also don't forget great musicianship. Working itb trying to get 'that' sound that you want will more than likely be very elusive unless you are a great engineer or lucky. Take your pick. The room is the key to me. Ask any professional. Btw keep the insults to yourself please
Not only were engineers in those days very trained, but they also spent a lo-ong time tuning and miking the kit, damping down every little ring, checking phase with all the numerous mics etc. It still ended up sounding like sh*t in my opinion, but if you really want that sound...
Old 13th January 2017
  #57
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
Not only were engineers in those days very trained, but they also spent a lo-ong time tuning and miking the kit, damping down every little ring, checking phase with all the numerous mics etc. It still ended up sounding like sh*t in my opinion, but if you really want that sound...
Not to forget all that heavy processing that can be achieved these days a lot easier.
Old 13th January 2017
  #58
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simppu View Post
A lot of records even today are recorded in nice rooms and even they don't have the sound.
That's because the microphones are much closer and most parts are overdubbed that were played live in the old days.
Old 13th January 2017
  #59
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
That's because the microphones are much closer and most parts are overdubbed that were played live in the old days.
So it's the microphone position and not overdubbing then that achieves the sound?
Old 13th January 2017
  #60
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

That's a whole lot of it. Today, people also put more signal processing on each DAW track than we had in an entire control room!
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