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How to compress?
Old 4th January 2017
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
I'm not sure why you'd say that. Unless its the phrasing used? How about 'final amount of reduction' it will archive given time to honor the attack?
Because compression does not give you a final amount of reduction; it tries to but ultimately fails, for the same reason that halving the distance to the goal line never gets you to the goal line. It's called asymptotical behavior and is related to how the gear is built / plugin is programmed.

So it's kind of a nitpicking pet peeve of mine since I've discovered it, but I think it's actually very important: compression does not simply magically shave off peaks. It eats at them little by little but never completely does.
Old 4th January 2017
  #92
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TextHead View Post
Well, it appears as if I'm correct. I just generated a tone and put this into practice, and those -3db peaks got reduced down to -11db. My compressor was probably doing auto-make-up gain which had me confused for a minute there.

Still... can you explain to me how a ratio of 60:1 works in the context of a -12db threshold with sound above that. Does it just use the maximum ratio it can in that instance? As there's no 60db over the threshold?
My mistake lumping the two earlier statements together.
The main distinction as vinnie2k point to, is your connecting ratio as if it's related to the levels in the material.
Well, I thought it was connected in the sense that the ratio acts on the signal above the threshold. Am I confusing myself here? I have a habit of over-thinking this stuff.

I thought a ratio like 2:1... essentially halved the output over the threshold? And 4:1 was like... a quarter reduction? Is that right? And 60:1 would be like... a 60th of the output?

Don't worry. I'll get it eventually. Haha.
Old 4th January 2017
  #93
Use the formula to work out some examples.

O = (I-T)/R+T

I = -2
T = -10
R = 4:1
O = -8

I = -2
T = -10
R = 2:1
O = -6

You divide the difference to the threshold by the ratio.

So 4:1 is 3/4 reduction, and 60:1 is 59/60th reduction; if your ratio is x:1, then your reduction is (x-1)/x.
Old 4th January 2017
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie2k View Post
Because compression does not give you a final amount of reduction; it tries to but ultimately fails, for the same reason that halving the distance to the goal line never gets you to the goal line. It's called asymptotical behavior and is related to how the gear is built / plugin is programmed.

So it's kind of a nitpicking pet peeve of mine since I've discovered it, but I think it's actually very important: compression does not simply magically shave off peaks. It eats at them little by little but never completely does.
Ok, but you're complicating it. This context it is the attempt to relate settings in a their very basic ways. And in this case -with steady state examples- I.e. 'x in -given adequate time... gives x' out. A given final amount of reduction.

Quote:
compression does not simply magically shave off peaks..
I'm not sure who said that...
Quote:
..eats at them little by little but never completely does.
A new 'technical phrase
Anywho, it can def' shave off peaks', to the exact degree you like- given the appropriate settings.
...In case I should I need to add.. also 'given the right compressor'..
Old 5th January 2017
  #95
Gear Head
 

I'm also guessing that when people talk about "highly compressed instrumentals/beats," they're talking about this sort of thing...

http://www.gluonics.com/rod-stewart/...nine-pilot.gif


I'm guessing with this sort of thing... they crush the dynamics (lower all the peaks and such... decrease the loudest parts), so they can then bring everything up closer to 0db without clipping. I'm not really sure what I'm looking at because I'm not an expert, but it just appears as if everything is as loud as everything else... with a slight variation at the top of the wavform.

Is that how you get a waveform looking like that? When I try use beats like this, I often find everything is too loud for vocals etc.
Old 15th January 2017
  #96
Gear Addict
 
ikamy's Avatar
 

Hello guys
Most of the times I use compression to reduce the edgy sounds like hihat or any instruments which produce transient, I found sometimes 2 compression may help better and Sometimes even after 3 compressor I feel the sound is still too edgy and bright for the mix
I can eq but then the sound lose its character
I can add reverb, Im not sure it is the right way
And sometimes I have to use evelope shaper in cubase which can reduce attack (actually cutting the biggining)
Im sure Im doing something wrong
Im looking for a way to reduce just the power of transient
Should i use multi band compression just for a hihat ?! It looks weird
Your help will be appreciated
Old 15th January 2017
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikamy View Post
Hello guys
Most of the times I use compression to reduce the edgy sounds like hihat or any instruments which produce transient, I found sometimes 2 compression may help better and Sometimes even after 3 compressor I feel the sound is still too edgy and bright for the mix
I can eq but then the sound lose its character
I can add reverb, Im not sure it is the right way
And sometimes I have to use evelope shaper in cubase which can reduce attack (actually cutting the biggining)
Im sure Im doing something wrong
Im looking for a way to reduce just the power of transient
Should i use multi band compression just for a hihat ?! It looks weird
Your help will be appreciated
change the hi-hat sound, if it's not working, it will never work.
Old 15th January 2017
  #98
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Owen L T's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikamy View Post
Hello guys
Most of the times I use compression to reduce the edgy sounds like hihat or any instruments which produce transient, I found sometimes 2 compression may help better and Sometimes even after 3 compressor I feel the sound is still too edgy and bright for the mix
There is no earthly reason to use 3 compressors on a hi-hat. It is a short, percussive sound, with an initial transient, no sustain (open hi-hats are an exception, of course), and a decay of around 100ms (for a closed hat/closed hat sample - sometimes even shorter for some samples).

There are really only two things you can achieve with a compressor on a hi-hat: (i) increase the proportion of the tail/reduce the proportion of the attack, using a fast attack, fast release; (ii) increase the attack sound, with a medium (3 - 10 ms attack) and a slower decay (150ms-ish). That's it. More 'tick' or more 'tail'. You can likewise achieve both results with a transient designer. (With percussive hits like this, any compression is, in essence, just a form a shaping the transient, in any case, as there's no real sustain.) Difference is, if you're using a multi-sample VST, with some round-robins, then the compressor approach - depending on your settings - may also help make the hits a little more even.

If the sound is too bright, then a mild high-shelf should tuck it in. If it's too harsh, a dip in the 3k range sometimes helps (especially with broadband-noise type samples, like 909), and hats often benefit from a gentle hi-pass filter (6 or 12 dB/octave) anywhere from 200 to as high as 1000, depending on the sound, and its role in the mix.

If you're using the right sound/samples, these mild enhancements/corrections should just take a few seconds to dial in - if you're doing endless compression then (as someone else mentioned) you're either using unsuitable samples - which is easily done - or ... attacking the problem from the wrong direction. But if you can't get the hi-hat sound you want with one compressor, your're certainly not going to get it from three of them!

Post an example - in the mix, and solo'd?
Old 16th January 2017
  #99
Gear Addict
 
ikamy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist View Post
change the hi-hat sound, if it's not working, it will never work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen L T View Post
There is no earthly reason to use 3 compressors on a hi-hat. It is a short, percussive sound, with an initial transient, no sustain (open hi-hats are an exception, of course), and a decay of around 100ms (for a closed hat/closed hat sample - sometimes even shorter for some samples).

There are really only two things you can achieve with a compressor on a hi-hat: (i) increase the proportion of the tail/reduce the proportion of the attack, using a fast attack, fast release; (ii) increase the attack sound, with a medium (3 - 10 ms attack) and a slower decay (150ms-ish). That's it. More 'tick' or more 'tail'. You can likewise achieve both results with a transient designer. (With percussive hits like this, any compression is, in essence, just a form a shaping the transient, in any case, as there's no real sustain.) Difference is, if you're using a multi-sample VST, with some round-robins, then the compressor approach - depending on your settings - may also help make the hits a little more even.

If the sound is too bright, then a mild high-shelf should tuck it in. If it's too harsh, a dip in the 3k range sometimes helps (especially with broadband-noise type samples, like 909), and hats often benefit from a gentle hi-pass filter (6 or 12 dB/octave) anywhere from 200 to as high as 1000, depending on the sound, and its role in the mix.

If you're using the right sound/samples, these mild enhancements/corrections should just take a few seconds to dial in - if you're doing endless compression then (as someone else mentioned) you're either using unsuitable samples - which is easily done - or ... attacking the problem from the wrong direction. But if you can't get the hi-hat sound you want with one compressor, your're certainly not going to get it from three of them!

Post an example - in the mix, and solo'd?

Thanks for your answer, Now Im seeing my problem from a different perspective
I feel there are A lot to know about compression

Sometimes I use a slight room verb just on highs or just on mids frequencies with a probably 30 to 40 percent dry signal
Turns out If I keep one of this channels (mid or high) dry with no reverb, The sounds feel more natural like pro mixes

Is this a common approach to to soften edgy sounds?
Old 16th January 2017
  #100
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikamy View Post
Hello guys
Most of the times I use compression to reduce the edgy sounds like hihat or any instruments which produce transient, I found sometimes 2 compression may help better and Sometimes even after 3 compressor I feel the sound is still too edgy and bright for the mix
I can eq but then the sound lose its character
I can add reverb, Im not sure it is the right way
And sometimes I have to use evelope shaper in cubase which can reduce attack (actually cutting the biggining)
Im sure Im doing something wrong
Im looking for a way to reduce just the power of transient
Should i use multi band compression just for a hihat ?! It looks weird
Your help will be appreciated
There are a whole plethora of transient shaper plugs that will do what you ask in their own different way. Make friends with them. They will sort out peaky/edgy things. For tone/edgy things, get Fielding Reviver and just turn up the 2nd harmonic fader to taste to smoothen edgy tone.
Old 23rd January 2017
  #101
Gear Head
 
Judge Judy's Avatar
 

Try this: Full video tutorial series I made for beginners. In depth, using custom graphics to hopefully make things clear for beginners.

Audio Compressors & Audio Compression Tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...p-nl5qWF5zh-2X
Old 31st January 2017
  #102
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Judy View Post
Try this: Full video tutorial series I made for beginners. In depth, using custom graphics to hopefully make things clear for beginners.

Audio Compressors & Audio Compression Tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...p-nl5qWF5zh-2X
Nice use of visuals!
Old 25th February 2017
  #103
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarelch View Post
So what several people have said here, roughly, is that you don't hear compressors in an untreated room.
What about headphones though? Should I be able to hear their works with headphones?
This is not what they said. They said this may be why you're not hearing it if you're not. Obviously hearing stuff is easier in a good room. If you can't hear what it's doing it might as well be switched off.

One question bothers me. If I take a solo part and switch the compressor to 'analogue' I hear no difference except a bit of noise on extreme settings. But if I put the part back in the mix and do this I hear a definite difference. The part sits in place better. But try as I might I can't hear what's happening to produce this result.

I wonder if the noise is what does it, making the part seem flatter against the noise floor. The compression seems to be identical.

Then again, my ability to fool myself into hearing things is considerable.

Any thoughts?
Old 26th February 2017
  #104
Gear Addict
 
ikamy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen L T View Post
There is no earthly reason to use 3 compressors on a hi-hat. It is a short, percussive sound, with an initial transient, no sustain (open hi-hats are an exception, of course), and a decay of around 100ms (for a closed hat/closed hat sample - sometimes even shorter for some samples).

There are really only two things you can achieve with a compressor on a hi-hat: (i) increase the proportion of the tail/reduce the proportion of the attack, using a fast attack, fast release; (ii) increase the attack sound, with a medium (3 - 10 ms attack) and a slower decay (150ms-ish). That's it. More 'tick' or more 'tail'. You can likewise achieve both results with a transient designer. (With percussive hits like this, any compression is, in essence, just a form a shaping the transient, in any case, as there's no real sustain.) Difference is, if you're using a multi-sample VST, with some round-robins, then the compressor approach - depending on your settings - may also help make the hits a little more even.

If the sound is too bright, then a mild high-shelf should tuck it in. If it's too harsh, a dip in the 3k range sometimes helps (especially with broadband-noise type samples, like 909), and hats often benefit from a gentle hi-pass filter (6 or 12 dB/octave) anywhere from 200 to as high as 1000, depending on the sound, and its role in the mix.

If you're using the right sound/samples, these mild enhancements/corrections should just take a few seconds to dial in - if you're doing endless compression then (as someone else mentioned) you're either using unsuitable samples - which is easily done - or ... attacking the problem from the wrong direction. But if you can't get the hi-hat sound you want with one compressor, your're certainly not going to get it from three of them!

Post an example - in the mix, and solo'd?
Dear Owen, glad too see you again here
Old 26th February 2017
  #105
Gear Addict
 
ikamy's Avatar
 

Guys just a question about compression

I got this really anoying issue on my multiband c6 and c4 from waves

Even if I bypass all the channels it creates transients on my kick
How its possible?

Im sure none of the bands moving i check them all, but if i bypass the whole plugin its okay

I noticed in the plugin meter I see the peak reach the ceiling and red alert of clipping occurs
Just inside the plugin not on the master
It just create peaks near -5 db if I active plugin and bypass all channels

But the peak level of my kick before these plugins are -8

How its possible??

Thanks
Old 27th February 2017
  #106
Here for the gear
 

Increase in peak level is caused by phasing (phase shift) from the crossovers.
Old 27th February 2017
  #107
Gear Addict
 
ikamy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangthedrum View Post
Increase in peak level is caused by phasing (phase shift) from the crossovers.
Thanks
What is crossovers ?
And why I dont get this result with other multi band compressor?
Old 1st March 2017
  #108
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The points circled in red are the crossover points i.e the points at which the frequency is split into bands. The reasons for the increase in peak volume is due to the phase shift at these points and this could vary from plugin to plugin due to the filter algos used and the steepness of the cutoff slope. To be honest though an 8db increase sounds quite excessive so there could be somthing else going on there.
Attached Thumbnails
How to compress?-crossovers.jpg  
Old 1st March 2017
  #109
Gear Addict
 
ikamy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangthedrum View Post
The points circled in red are the crossover points i.e the points at which the frequency is split into bands. The reasons for the increase in peak volume is due to the phase shift at these points and this could vary from plugin to plugin due to the filter algos used and the steepness of the cutoff slope. To be honest though an 8db increase sounds quite excessive so there could be somthing else going on there.
Thank you

I went through it in detail and I checked linear phase plugins and also the whole phase shift concept

I find out Mix mastering is 100% related to telecommunication and waves concepts
Old 13th March 2017
  #110
thing is people don't even take the time to study what every knob on a compressor does. you have to be proactive to a certain extent in learning your effects and getting better at using them.
u ask how to compress and you're somewhat familiar with the music making process? i would tell u to study what a compressor does, that simple. the more you use it, the more you aquire a taste for how much compression u may want on what.
Old 20th March 2017
  #111
Here for the gear
 

Any chance I Could get that guide?
Old 27th March 2017
  #112
Here for the gear
 

How to set a compressor is a lot like telling a guitar player how to set his amp controls. It is different for every style of music and for each song. There is no preset. No magic setting. Although, I wish there was haha.

One tip I can give is this: when I set to compress an instrument, I set a high ratio and pull the threshold down until it's compressing extremely. Then, I adjust the attack, ratio and release controls. Once I have the release setting dialled in to the effect I want, I back off the threshold and ratio until its performing what I want. In my experience, release is the most important as it can either suck the life out of a signal, pump or it can let the music breathe. When you overcompress you can hear it's action more clearly. The attack affects the intial 'pluck' or 'smack' of the track. If you have drums, you can take all of the stick hit away, or you can enhance the body of drums (the ring). The ratio is like a 'how much compression do I want' setting. There are no rules, which make teaching compression somewhat of a mythological experience. My general rule is this: compression should either be an effect or it should be inaudible. There really isn't much ground between the two. If you compress to control the peaks of a signal, this is the more utilitarian model. Modern music is the byproduct of compression used as an effect. To bring life and breath into a track or instrument. Experiment. Mess up. Find happy accidents. There really is no other way. No guitar signal is alike, nor is any drum recording. It's personal, like guitar tone. Find your sound. Find your inner compression style. Milk it. Use it. Don't be afraid to break rules that you've read about. Because after all, rules were meant to be broken.

Cheers!
Glenn

Last edited by rattleshock; 27th March 2017 at 11:47 AM..
Old 29th March 2017
  #113
HSi
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There's a lot of odd conversation on this thread. People seem to be talking about compressors as if VCA peak is the only type.

Dat misnformation

Here's a decent article for newbs to compression, and probably some older forum members judging by what I just read :P

http://quantum-music.ca/wordpress/in...-to-use-which/

Tells you about the circuit types, classic uses for them, how they work and lists common branded versions, what each type can and can't do, etc. In reality, you need to know what's in the article before you even load a compressor onto a track.

My advice would be to use compressors that make things as easy as possible for you like la-2a clones, tube tech cl1b, kush ubk1. All classics that do most of the work for you and sound great as long as you use them in the right places.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...MA9IoMNaXmaZU5

This too. 15 videos in a series.


Old 29th March 2017
  #114
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Thumbs up to Mixbuss TV. He's a member here too I believe.
Old 29th March 2017
  #115
HSi
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This is about the clearest example of how to add punch to a kick drum you will probably find. Really simply explained and correct.
Old 9th July 2017
  #116
Here for the gear
 

Here are some tutorial videos I made that focus on using Compression in EDM/Electronic tracks.

I would love feedback and if you find anything useful please let me know.

There's a video which explains Compression Controls:




There's a video which shows how Compression can be used in a live session:

Old 7th August 2017
  #117
Here for the gear
 

I would recommend listening to what Kendal at the Recording Lounge has to say about compression! His explanation regarding e.g. attack time will help out many beginners!
Old 31st August 2017
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSi View Post


This is about the clearest example of how to add punch to a kick drum you will probably find. Really simply explained and correct.
Thx. To sum up:
long attack
short release
Old 22nd September 2017
  #119
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Sigma's Avatar
think of a compressor as a "wave shaper" then think of the types of waves in an ocean some are big rounded and rolling with no white caps...equate that to a bass...some are fast short and choppy..think snare kicks etc ...

now consider atack settings... is the idea to push a kick beater into the shell resonance or to bring the beater out? your answer determines where you set the attack ..if you want more beater set the attack in the 3-5 ms range to let the beater pass ...if it's to get more shell put in a fast attack like a peaking limiter would do..then realize you did 2 things you changed the wavee shape as well as EQ'd THE TRACK..there is no 1.5 -5 k in a kick shell resonance but there is 1.5-5k in the beater hit so essentially you are EQ'g too

then there is compression you do on mixes... low ratio ..most times fast attack and long release so you don't hear pumping



always decide what you want the outcome to be then pick the compressor and setting to actualize it..

know the shape of the wave you want to affect and how you want to change it

also many compressors can't catch rounded bass notes because they look like sine waves and have little or no transient ...so you need to look at compressors who overcome that issue by their design
Old 22nd September 2017
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
think of a compressor as a "wave shaper" then think of the types of waves in an ocean some are big rounded and rolling with no white caps...equate that to a bass...some are fast short and choppy..think snare kicks etc ...

now consider atack settings... is the idea to push a kick beater into the shell resonance or to bring the beater out? your answer determines where you set the attack ..if you want more beater set the attack in the 3-5 ms range to let the beater pass ...if it's to get more shell put in a fast attack like a peaking limiter would do..then realize you did 2 things you changed the wavee shape as well as EQ'd THE TRACK..there is no 1.5 -5 k in a kick shell resonance but there is 1.5-5k in the beater hit so essentially you are EQ'g too

then there is compression you do on mixes... low ratio ..most times fast attack and long release so you don't hear pumping

always decide what you want the outcome to be then pick the compressor and setting to actualize it..

know the shape of the wave you want to affect and how you want to change it

also many compressors can't catch rounded bass notes because they look like sine waves and have little or no transient ...so you need to look at compressors who overcome that issue by their design
I like this. I'd offer a visualization, the attack time's slope -response rate of reduction- overlaid with a track's wave shape. In relative terms, 'fast (enough') for a slow moving source would look slow to something more percussive.
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