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McDSP APB-16 Analog Processing Box
Old 14th December 2019
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMMST View Post
So no PC support? K bye.

I'll spend my $7000 elsewhere.
K, cool.
Old 15th December 2019
  #92
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Someone knows if equalizers and processors other than compressors are planned ?

I know that the "Moo X" summing mixer/compressor is supposed to be released this month, according to the AES announcement.

But apart from that...
Old 17th December 2019
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj.metissage View Post
Someone knows if equalizers and processors other than compressors are planned ?

I know that the "Moo X" summing mixer/compressor is supposed to be released this month, according to the AES announcement.

But apart from that...
According to Recording Mag, it won't support EQ.
Old 17th December 2019
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
According to Recording Mag, it won't support EQ.
Thanks, too bad.
Old 19th December 2019
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMMST View Post
So no PC support? K bye.

I'll spend my $7000 elsewhere.
At the Apple store?
Old 19th December 2019
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Splinter View Post
At the Apple store?
Thanks for this.

I'll never understand why anyone in the digital arts gets so upset over Apple and iLoks. :::shrug::: Don't hate the player hate the game.

I wish that Apple would make a thunderbolt card, but I get it that they want to push their new machines and not enable older machines to have the same technology. I will be running my 2012 Mac Pro 12 core for many years to come and simply cannot afford a $8k 2019 12 core and another $7k for an APB. That's a whole lotta scratch. Not to mention having to upgrade PT and all my plugs. The APB will no doubt be super dope, but for that level of an investment into things I already own (that work flawlessly), it's just not in the cards.
Old 19th December 2019
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj.metissage View Post
Someone knows if equalizers and processors other than compressors are planned ?

I know that the "Moo X" summing mixer/compressor is supposed to be released this month, according to the AES announcement.

But apart from that...
Colin has said that EQ plugins are great and the depth and vibe that comes from analog saturation and compression is where the "magic" happens. That's why it's only compression, limiting and saturation.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see other companies using McDSPs design to build EQs. Seems like a no brainer, so long as McDSP will license their technology.
Old 19th December 2019
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
Colin has said that EQ plugins are great and the depth and vibe that comes from analog saturation and compression is where the "magic" happens. That's why it's only compression, limiting and saturation.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see other companies using McDSPs design to build EQs. Seems like a no brainer, so long as McDSP will license their technology.
Thank your for the clarifications.
Old 7th January 2020
  #99
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After looking at the box I'm wondering where this expanded i/o claim is coming from. Since the box itself has no i/o it will need some sort of interface to enable further i/o if it even really does that? It seems to suggest that you can interface native hardware but I don't see any means for doing so on the box. Certainly it won't be able to control the native hardware. So what's up with this particular part of the hype?

Other than that, the real question is whether the 7k price tag is justified. I suspect it is for some and not for others.
Old 13th January 2020
  #100
Rea
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If this thing had 16 Analog Inputs/outputs, or at least 16 analog outputs it would have been SO MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE. Its already in the analog domain, why force it to go back digital for all those who mix OTB?
Old 14th January 2020
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
If this thing had 16 Analog Inputs/outputs, or at least 16 analog outputs it would have been SO MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE. Its already in the analog domain, why force it to go back digital for all those who mix OTB?
My two cents:

1) McDSP are a plugin company, so plugins are their forte.
2) APB-16 has 16 I/O completely independent from I/O limitations in Native/HDX. That, to me (and I assume many others), is huge.
3) The concept of 1 TB cable for everything is insanely cool and convenient (expandable with 1 cable up to 96 channels!).
4) It doesn't seem like this is geared toward people who mix OTB because those of who you do that already have tons of I/O and outboard gear.
5) Total recall and automation without patching.

Who knows, maybe if this thing sells really well (or maybe if it doesn't?) they will strip the converters out of it? I would put my money on either a stereo version being dropped or a modular version (which would be SUPER dope IMO!). I would like to see a standard protocol AES/EBU connection, personally... oh well!
Old 14th January 2020
  #102
Rea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
My two cents:

1) McDSP are a plugin company, so plugins are their forte.
2) APB-16 has 16 I/O completely independent from I/O limitations in Native/HDX. That, to me (and I assume many others), is huge.
3) The concept of 1 TB cable for everything is insanely cool and convenient (expandable with 1 cable up to 96 channels!).
4) It doesn't seem like this is geared toward people who mix OTB because those of who you do that already have tons of I/O and outboard gear.
5) Total recall and automation without patching.

Who knows, maybe if this thing sells really well (or maybe if it doesn't?) they will strip the converters out of it? I would put my money on either a stereo version being dropped or a modular version (which would be SUPER dope IMO!). I would like to see a standard protocol AES/EBU connection, personally... oh well!
Not sure you catch my drift-

There is a possibility for 16(!!!) digitally controlled/recalled analog compressors/saturators that output analog without going back to digital- straight to your mixer. Save you 16 compressors in your rack, and 16 DA's and all McDSP need to do is rout the analog signal that is already in the box to a DB25 instead of back into a AD. Dont you get how big this is...?

For a device that celebrates Analog as a huge and pricy choice suddenly analog summing is not interesting? Strange.
Old 14th January 2020
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
Not sure you catch my drift-

There is a possibility for 16(!!!) digitally controlled/recalled analog compressors/saturators that output analog without going back to digital- straight to your mixer. Save you 16 compressors in your rack, and 16 DA's and all McDSP need to do is rout the analog signal that is already in the box to a DB25 instead of back into a AD. Dont you get how big this is...?

For a device that celebrates Analog as a huge and pricy choice suddenly analog summing is not interesting? Strange.
Oh, I very much catch your drift... but you are assuming that everyone has 16 AD/DA. I have only 16 AD/DA and I use 14 of the DA for summing and 2 for monitoring.

McDSP have designed/calibrated the APB so it is unclippable. That's another cool aspect of it that necessitates it's own internal conversion.

Last edited by Zoot; 18th January 2020 at 11:34 PM..
Old 14th January 2020
  #104
Rea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
Oh, I very much catch your drift... but you are assuming that everyone has 16 AD/DA. I have only 16 AD/DA and I use 14 of the DA for summing and 2 for monitoring.

McDSP have designed/calibrated the APB so it is unclippable. That's another cool aspect of it that necessitates it's own internal conversion.

I very much agree with you, however, that not being locked into their conversion would be big. How does their conversion sound? We won't know out of context -- only in the context of its processing. I use 16 channels of JCF AD8 going in, so it concerns me that McDSPs conversion would potentially be doing more damage to the signal than the analog compressors would give TO the signal.

It would be very cool to have this without conversion, but it's also super cool to have it in a single cable version that doesn't take up I/O.

Dont use the Analog out. Use the Digital loop. But this is so close to being so much more than it is. Having a choice to stay analog once it went analog is huge.

Its almost like asking why are there 12 notes in the scale when you only need 5 for your melody. Use as many as you want bro, my melody has 8.
Old 14th January 2020
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
Dont use the Analog out. Use the Digital loop. But this is so close to being so much more than it is. Having a choice to stay analog once it went analog is huge.
Welp! Analog outs aren't an option, so it doesn't really matter if it is close to being something that you personally think would be better. They did the R&D and manufactured it. Send Colin a message, ask if you can report his response to GS and let us all know.
Old 15th January 2020
  #106
Rea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
Welp! Analog outs aren't an option, so it doesn't really matter if it is close to being something that you personally think would be better. They did the R&D and manufactured it. Send Colin a message, ask if you can report his response to GS and let us all know.
What's your gig? Do you represent them? Why do you even comment? It wasn't meant for you.
Gotta love people who volunteer to tell you what Cant be done...
Old 16th January 2020
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
Do you represent them? Gotta love people who volunteer to tell you what Cant be done...
No. I don't work for McDSP, nor am I stating what you want cannot be done. What I am saying is this:

If the APB-16 were to have analog outs, it would cut the audio signal out of the channel and audio would no longer flow through the sends/pan/volume/output. That is because the APB is a plugin -- which is an insert -- and if you know what an insert does -- and you obviously do -- you know that cutting an insert cuts the audio to the sends/bus. Now, you could say, "well, they could keep the digital loop, but offer analog outs, as well." ...but that hasn't been stated.

Furthermore, without knowing 100% what I'm talking about -- I'm an engineer/studio owner, not a plugin developer -- I have to believe that there are certain limitations on plugin companies writing code for Avid's Pro Tools. They have an application process (http://developer.avid.com/) for commercial development and I have to believe that there are certain limitations. I honestly have a difficult time understanding how/why Avid allowed McDSP to skirt the issue of I/O limitations in the first place. It's very unlike Avid, is it not?

If the APB-16 had analog outs it would allow people to add up to 96 channels of DA (and automated compression) via a single thunderbolt cable. As is, the APB is opening the door to someone modifying the unit to rip out the DA and keep everything analog... skirting the issue of I/O limitations in Pro Tools. All via thunderbolt.

Avid's business model is based on having a lockdown on their system. If you want more I/O, you have to either buy more of their interfaces or a license to use 3rd party interfaces. HDX can only handle 64 channels of I/O before you have to buy another HDX card.

These are murky waters and I have no idea what Avid allows or what they don't allow... but I have to believe that two of the (probably biggest) reasons that the APB doesn't have analog outs is due to a) it being an insert and b) Avid's licensing/developer restrictions.
Old 16th January 2020
  #108
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Originally Posted by Master_Splinter View Post
At the Apple store?
Yeeeeahhhhh...no.

You can hate on PC all you want, I couldn't care less.
Old 16th January 2020
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post

If the APB-16 were to have analog outs, it would cut the audio signal out of the channel and audio would no longer flow through the sends/pan/volume/output. That is because the APB is a plugin -- which is an insert -- and if you know what an insert does -- and you obviously do -- you know that cutting an insert cuts the audio to the sends/bus. Now, you could say, "well, they could keep the digital loop, but offer analog outs, as well." ...but that hasn't been stated.
its called a normal. not that i care but a normal would allow for the signal to flow. thats how it done in consoles and patch bays.
Old 18th January 2020
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60 View Post
its called a normal. not that i care but a normal would allow for the signal to flow. thats how it done in consoles and patch bays.
This is a preposterous conversation. Every PT insert is full normal. You either have a plugin or you don't. There is no such thing as half normaling plugs in PT, sans track duplication. There is no way Avid would allow it to exist in the context of any box like the APB because it isn't how their software functions, so it's ridiculous to propose it as a possibility. Avid wouldn't allow external I/O to be expanded without their interfaces/cards/licenses.

I'm really looking forward to owners of the APB chiming into this thread with their experience using this fascinating piece of gear.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #111
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I suspect that the native plugins and hardware work together. The plugins are not just a GUI of fully functional hardware compressors. Part of the process is done in the digital realm, probably before and after conversion. And the plugin also controls parameters of the analog processes. If an analog out where implemented you´ll probably get a half baked cake.

It´s just my speculation.
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