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McDSP APB-16 Analog Processing Box
Old 4 weeks ago
  #31
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I don’t understand why McDSP is trying to market this box as the first of its kind. What about digitally controlled offerings from Bettermaker and Wes Audio?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
I don’t understand why McDSP is trying to market this box as the first of its kind. What about digitally controlled offerings from Bettermaker and Wes Audio?
Digitally controlled is different than having built in a/d d/a, with just one cable to connect 16 channels to your computer and modular analog components that can be combined differently to achieve different styles of compression and saturation on every channel.

The only thing that I’ve found that’s close is Elektron’s analog heat. But the a/d/d/a is limited to 48k and you can only use one stereo pair or one mono plugin per $700 unit (though you can get some mkI units used for $450 that has same internal components as the mkII)

Bettermaker and Wes Audio seem to be (awesome) digitally recallable analog gear that requires analog connections with the ability to only perform a single type of processing per unit. But correct me if I’m wrong.

I think McDSP did create something new (there’s probably a good reason why they are spending a lot of money patenting the tech). It’s the ideal tool from a workflow/quality balance perspective imho. Probably won’t have the best resale value in the future, but the amount of high quality, time saving work that could be done on it seems well worth the loss. It will probably just depreciate a touch more slowly than a computer. Speak to your accountant about the tax benefits of a depreciation schedule and I’m sure you’ll find it helpful in justifying the expense.

Now... about those Audio Unit/VST versions...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #33
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soundmodel's Avatar
 

An alternative take:

https://accessanalog.com/

Quote:
Access Analog gives musicians and recording engineers real time access to professional analog audio hardware over a standard internet connection. Audio streams from the Analog Matrix plugin across the internet, through the analog hardware, and returns to the plugin in real time.*
Old 4 weeks ago
  #34
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In some ways UAD is the same thing, restricts compability and in my case just as expensive.

If you have no need to stay compatible and don’t care what the setup will be worth in the future is a great solution.

I don’t plan fifteen years ahead, that is a whole career.

I could easily see myself put money in this thing but I would not call it ”the future” . I would be very surpriced The MCdsp-system is worth more then 1k in 15 years
Old 4 weeks ago
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmodel View Post
An alternative take:

https://accessanalog.com/
That looks pretty cool. There are a couple of services like this but I don’t think I’ve seen one that runs as a plugin.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #36
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studioguy1176's Avatar
Honestly thats what was being said 15 years ago "plug ins sound almost so close to the real thing" and it will be said in another 15 years... why?... because in 15 years it will still be 1's and 0's , not actual analog components like FET, Tubes and other block transformers... you just cant match the depth and weight of tubes in the software world... yeah you can add some low end to match it in a way but its just not there... so you kind of validated the point... this is needed now ... and probably in 15 years will be a great idea as they will add to these... ie different tubes and other things like an fet section or different transformers... this is just the beginning... PEACE AND HARMONY and CHEERS MY FRIEND!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studioguy1176 View Post
Honestly thats what was being said 15 years ago "plug ins sound almost so close to the real thing" and it will be said in another 15 years... why?... because in 15 years it will still be 1's and 0's , not actual analog components like FET, Tubes and other block transformers... you just cant match the depth and weight of tubes in the software world... yeah you can add some low end to match it in a way but its just not there... so you kind of validated the point... this is needed now ... and probably in 15 years will be a great idea as they will add to these... ie different tubes and other things like an fet section or different transformers... this is just the beginning... PEACE AND HARMONY and CHEERS MY FRIEND!
Its not ”needed” now and it will certainly not be needed in 15 years. Some plugins made fifteen years ago are still nice but plugins in general have come a long way. Some of the best mix engineers are ITB today. I can only guess were er are in 15 years.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #38
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studioguy1176's Avatar
my friend... have you ever really heard the difference between a real 1176 (purple, UA or whatever that is of great quality) and a plug in??? When you push the plug in you can get nasty stuff happening and honestly i think they all sound harsh... Same w a 1073 plug in... yeah it sounds all right but it has a nasty bite in the top end verse an airy shimmer on a 1073.... not to mention you cant truly replicate the variable of the actual signal hit to the block transformer.... in the software world it just keeps the same formula, 1's and 0's.... i have the pleasure of running my retro 2a3 pultec in bypass with a pultec eq and its awesome!... so many possiblities and i am talking about added futures to my hardware gear.... trust me. Plug ins are cool and can work in a hurry.... but this is that bridge that will bring the two worlds together... nothing you can say that doesnt change how deep and weighty outboard can sound... not to mention witth mic modeling on the frontier this will bring a whole new world for interfaces and those mic modelers..

now your turn
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
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studioguy1176's Avatar
same concept in a way but those are primarily for certain compressions and no future of being able to modulate them... so what you get is what you get.... these will be completely modular (in the future, MCDSP is the first and i garantee it will change ).... UA and Waves will have one following soon.... trust me
Old 2 weeks ago
  #40
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studioguy1176's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by steffo View Post
In some ways UAD is the same thing, restricts compability and in my case just as expensive.

If you have no need to stay compatible and don’t care what the setup will be worth in the future is a great solution.

I don’t plan fifteen years ahead, that is a whole career.

I could easily see myself put money in this thing but I would not call it ”the future” . I would be very surpriced The MCdsp-system is worth more then 1k in 15 years
Listen to what others are saying!!! I am not trying to pick, or be a dick to you. This is not a software plug in , per say... It has actual analog A)transformers (or will) B) Acutal analog components for actual frequency response per the signal
C) And compressors that will fit the bill for the unit.... optical, fet, tube, VCA etc

my first guess is they will be mainly vca based but in the future they will be modular with the ability to add what you want and take out what you dont need.... imagine the possabilities with preamp emulations alone... plugins arent that good with actual preamp units, the APOLLO does good because it can match impedence with the gain used on that channel.... but theres so much more that could be done... THIS IS A WHOLE NEW FIELD ... A WHOLE NEW WORLD>.... if you can explain how it isnt i will listen... but to say "they sound as good . or itll be there before long (which 15 years is insane and i bet it still wouldnt be like this or this good bc they cant truely emulate analog transformers!!!! )/// kush has the omega series... but not the same... just 2 cents from someone who gets to use this type of gear vs a plug in .... everyday
Old 2 weeks ago
  #41
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studioguy1176's Avatar
btw.. "the whole most engineers are ITB is a load of crap".... its a great marketing scheme and all... but do you think JJP is going to use his real pultec, or FC 670 and totally use his console as a glorified heater? Or do you think he tracks with his console, w his gear on inserts and then possibly use plugins for a quick fix (not saying he hasnt done ITB projects)? If I were paying the price he charges I would definately make sure he utilized all of his tools that he has at his disposal... that includes his real pultecs (which sound good ITB but doesnt have the organicness of a real one), 1176's , or one of his customized pieces? He has the channel count and patchbay to utilize the whole thing and most commercial engineers have the same facility IO for gear.... plug ins are great for quick and dirty... but they arent using a mac pro (maybe are) , imac or whatever into some decent preamps and into a stock avid 192 or even a symphony (they probably have those interfaces plus lynx etc)... but point is these are tools .... plugs are great tools... but they arent quit there... they miss that 20% of the depth and weight a real analog unit can hold... not to mention when pushed at extreme levels plug ins can sound distorted and brittle, analog units can too but i can get huge amounts of GR on my MC77 wo it sounding pumpy, bad , or even "fake"... just organic


sorry for mispellings... typing fast at work
Old 2 weeks ago
  #42
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I don’t see the point of this thread getting derailed into an OTB vs ITB debate, here.

This is a software-controlled hardware device. The plugin is just used to control it.

If you don’t like hardware, please stick to your plugins. It’s not difficult.

Last edited by breakinrecords; 2 weeks ago at 02:55 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studioguy1176 View Post
my friend... have you ever really heard the difference between a real 1176 (purple, UA or whatever that is of great quality) and a plug in??? When you push the plug in you can get nasty stuff happening and honestly i think they all sound harsh... Same w a 1073 plug in... yeah it sounds all right but it has a nasty bite in the top end verse an airy shimmer on a 1073.... not to mention you cant truly replicate the variable of the actual signal hit to the block transformer.... in the software world it just keeps the same formula, 1's and 0's.... i have the pleasure of running my retro 2a3 pultec in bypass with a pultec eq and its awesome!... so many possiblities and i am talking about added futures to my hardware gear.... trust me. Plug ins are cool and can work in a hurry.... but this is that bridge that will bring the two worlds together... nothing you can say that doesnt change how deep and weighty outboard can sound... not to mention witth mic modeling on the frontier this will bring a whole new world for interfaces and those mic modelers..

now your turn

I know the feeling, you sound like me ten years ago

I had A LOT of outboard, mixed on a SSL 4000 for a few years. Thought I needed all that stuff, started mixing hybrid, a few years later I decided to go all ITB. Made no difference. And I have mixed a lot of pretty decent artists (+ 50 million plays on Spotify-songs). If it works it works If you think you need all that stuff you probably do..

Not trying to convince anyone there is no difference..I just don’t care it works, creativity will always play a bigger role.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #44
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studioguy1176's Avatar
I definately was not trying to steer the bus in that direction. All around great idea from MCDSP, and I'm sure others will follow with more indepth designs and concepts. I have been telling my vendor for years, how I would route into analog while in bypass and yield amazing results w endless sonic possibilities with different plugins loaded on an aux track and then routed to an audio track in several different instances (different plug ins).

He even said I was crazy (not going to name drop and he is a dear friend of mine that happens to be my vendor). I emailed Waves R&D dept earlier this year and told them a unit like this would be just out of this world. I got a response from tech support but not R&D... hopefully they have one in the works. Time will tell with these new units!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #45
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I also think it is a great Idea from McDSP, I would love to get one. Want and need don’t go hand in hand..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #46
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studioguy1176's Avatar
thats what i am trying to figure out.... How can you not hear the difference if you have truly worked with a 4000 series and a plentiful of outboard???? My puigtecs sound great in a hurry but no where near my Retro 2a3, just doesn't. The retro has an air to it that sparkles all while holding the beef of a pultec eq... the puigtec simply doesn't touch that hi end sparkle (starts to really get harsh at about 8 kHz), especially when pushed. I have already gone over the 1176 comparison, and vca type compressors are freaking fantastic when paired with my kush tweaker and distressor. I can really get that extra thump when i lower my attacks with say a kush tweaker in bypass and my ssl comp set slow... it really does have a factor and color than wo the tweaker or distressor... its there, you can hear it. The printed track sounds deeper and more organic (and again plug ins are great but i and alot of others, feel they miss out on that little 15 percent).

All good arguments though.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #47
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studioguy1176's Avatar
no one "needs" it.... but when your making money from the tools at your disposal, well this could go a long way instead of patching in 32 channels (64 points just form one process if the track has 32 channels)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studioguy1176 View Post
thats what i am trying to figure out.... How can you not hear the difference if you have truly worked with a 4000 series and a plentiful of outboard???? My puigtecs sound great in a hurry but no where near my Retro 2a3, just doesn't. The retro has an air to it that sparkles all while holding the beef of a pultec eq... the puigtec simply doesn't touch that hi end sparkle (starts to really get harsh at about 8 kHz), especially when pushed. I have already gone over the 1176 comparison, and vca type compressors are freaking fantastic when paired with my kush tweaker and distressor. I can really get that extra thump when i lower my attacks with say a kush tweaker in bypass and my ssl comp set slow... it really does have a factor and color than wo the tweaker or distressor... its there, you can hear it. The printed track sounds deeper and more organic (and again plug ins are great but i and alot of others, feel they miss out on that little 15 percent).

All good arguments though.
I think your missing my point.

I don’t think the difference matters.

Of course I can hear the difference.

I also understand why you don’t get it, I’ve been there.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #49
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studioguy1176's Avatar
Yeah... I guess your logic is just way above my understanding of engineering.

Here is my logic... Plugins have not evolved (sonic wise ), except for reverb, that has come a long way IMO.
I can make my SSL waves sound pretty close to my 73 plug ins if i need to , that should not even remotely be the case.... yes I have to fiddle a bit and perform unconventional tasks I would normally not mess with if working, but I can make them sound pretty similar... Hardware units... no I cant do it.... we shoot out all the time... Software just can't give that depth and color that certain units generate because it is 1's and 0's.... theres no physical saturation of the signal which can happen from a multitude of things inside an analog piece of equipment ... and i hate using that word saturation... i like beef or weight... depth) basically that extra 15% that weve been searching for our plugins to add! Imagine being able to replicate every single piece of gear ever.... with just a firmware update .....and have 16 instances of that actual unit.... aside from all that just that actual realism of plug ins is what i look foward too... i enjoy plug ins and use them everyday... but this is just groundbreaking sorry... and its now... not fifteen years from now... just giving you crap... good talk and thread ... seriously!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studioguy1176 View Post
Yeah... I guess your logic is just way above my understanding of engineering.

Here is my logic... Plugins have not evolved (sonic wise ), except for reverb, that has come a long way IMO.
I can make my SSL waves sound pretty close to my 73 plug ins if i need to , that should not even remotely be the case.... yes I have to fiddle a bit and perform unconventional tasks I would normally not mess with if working, but I can make them sound pretty similar... Hardware units... no I cant do it.... we shoot out all the time... Software just can't give that depth and color that certain units generate because it is 1's and 0's.... theres no physical saturation of the signal which can happen from a multitude of things inside an analog piece of equipment ... and i hate using that word saturation... i like beef or weight... depth) basically that extra 15% that weve been searching for our plugins to add! Imagine being able to replicate every single piece of gear ever.... with just a firmware update .....and have 16 instances of that actual unit.... aside from all that just that actual realism of plug ins is what i look foward too... i enjoy plug ins and use them everyday... but this is just groundbreaking sorry... and its now... not fifteen years from now... just giving you crap... good talk and thread ... seriously!
If you say so
Old 2 weeks ago
  #51
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Master_Splinter's Avatar
 

I played with one at my local dealer today.

This thing is absolutely insane!

It means I can get the analogue sound anywhere, without having to bring flight cases of comps with me too!!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #52
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I check this thread every day to see if there’s any news regarding AU versions of the plugins. Sad but true.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so loud View Post
people of the world get to give $7k to McDSP?
Smh. Stop snitching

It’s a good idea for the big studio guys, but I don’t see this being the future with that sort of price tag. Plugins are getting better, dongle free, and obviously much cheaper. If you’re waiting for au port don’t hold your breath... or nah
Old 2 weeks ago
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JblKid95 View Post
Smh. Stop snitching

It’s a good idea for the big studio guys, but I don’t see this being the future with that sort of price tag. Plugins are getting better, dongle free, and obviously much cheaper. If you’re waiting for au port don’t hold your breath... or nah
Agreed that plugins are getting better and are beyond acceptable. In fact, they're amazing, but they are not the same. This also might not be the way to go in as little as 5 years. I think it's a bad investment in terms of resale or future support (at least my 1176 is future-proof for as long as it can be maintained). In terms of time though? Warren Buffet says you can't buy time, but with the APB-16, you can a least save some time IMO.

It's just faster and easier for me to get things to sound "right" to my ears using analog gear, and the apb-16 is a fast way to get an analog sound using a plugin workflow. That said, with more and more new classic records coming out every year, I'm sure our ears will collectively get used to plugins simply because that's what everyone's using.

My issue is just that I can really hear the difference between hardware and software and it bothers me. The whole nyquist issue with upper harmonics folding back into the audible range really adds up when you're using a lot of plugs that add saturation. Audio requires very fast individual cpu's to use higher sample rates to avoid some of that fold back issue and computer manufacturers keep adding more processors instead of making individual processors much faster. A computational limitation has been reached and it's not being overcome.

I just figure my options for getting a true analog sound are either: run audio through outboard gear (as I do whenever I practically can), have that "pretty good" feeling when using plugins, or get an apb-16. It's a pricey band-aid solution, but it's something.

Long-story-short: I agree with you. I just think it's a cool solution to something that has been bugging me for a while now. It's not a great business decision to purchase it, but I just love the sound of analog and the convenience of plugins. This is a solid fix.

P.S. Snitching? I'm just hoping someone from McDSP is reading this and understands that there's a market for them in the few and the proud logic users that are out there.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #55
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

I’m using AU as well and didn’t know it was actually 7k. I was like “7k? Speak for yourself’
Old 1 week ago
  #56
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studioguy1176's Avatar
I guess its just one of those things that time will tell... I do feel 7k is a tad steep though... with no modular route at all its a limited box. I think others will follow w the ability to have a valve input or output and different transformer options. It's not a matter of plug ins do not sound good, but they just do not have that thick analog mojo of a transformer or tube... those are thick artifacts that are really there and not emulated... idk thats the part about plugins that lack for me... the actual weight of the transformer or the bite of FET style equipment... i am out of this though


eveyone have an awesome week!




NOT TO GET OFF TOPIC>>> is it easy to transfer my old profile to this one???
Old 1 week ago
  #57
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studioguy1176 View Post
I guess its just one of those things that time will tell... I do feel 7k is a tad steep though... with no modular route at all its a limited box. I think others will follow w the ability to have a valve input or output and different transformer options. It's not a matter of plug ins do not sound good, but they just do not have that thick analog mojo of a transformer or tube... those are thick artifacts that are really there and not emulated... idk thats the part about plugins that lack for me... the actual weight of the transformer or the bite of FET style equipment... i am out of this though


eveyone have an awesome week!




NOT TO GET OFF TOPIC>>> is it easy to transfer my old profile to this one???
Plugins sound thin when pushed, analog has some girth even as it thins out. Like it creates certain artifacts as it’s being pushed that adds to the sound. There are ways around it tbh... thinking unconventionally def helps. Putting things before the compressor so the compressor reacts differently is def a good route... there are so many good plugin makers that it almost makes it a luxury to have all that gear. From the people I’ve talked to it seemed more about idiosyncrasy than anything else. The younger people will imitate what they hear with plugins and get it right or even above, doing something unorthodox because that’s all they have...
Old 1 week ago
  #58
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People keep talking about this having the “the real analog sound of transformers” and whatnot but I haven’t seen any transformers (or for that matter VCAs, Opto-cells, tubes, or other elements I might expect from a typical analog mojo hardware compressor) on any pictures I’ve seen. If the “hardware” is emulating these elements in some way via re-configuration, isn’t that still just emulating on some level?
Old 5 days ago
  #59
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Zoot's Avatar
Having used McDSP plugs for 15 years, it is my opinion that if you don't lust after the APB16 then something is either not right with you, or you just don't understand what it does. Either way -- I wish I had 7k to drop. I have no doubt that it will drip with vibe and power... and anyone who owns one will no doubt attest to it's unfathomably great value. Good luck setting up 16 channels of conversion of digitally controlled compression for 7k. Good. F-ing. Luck. McDSP wins again. No surprise there.

Last edited by Zoot; 5 days ago at 06:43 PM..
Old 5 days ago
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffo View Post
Some of the best mix engineers are ITB today.
One could argue that after so many years of working, their ears are not as good as they used to be and now they just can't hear the difference...
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