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Cytomic "The Scream" Distortion Plugin
Old 7th January 2019
  #211
Gear Maniac
With the right schematic and careful sprinkling of 0ohm resistors, you can probably create a ton of different pedals and select them using only presets. Its like pspice but a lot more fun!
Old 8th January 2019
  #212
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafs View Post
I would love for some presets to mimic the Bonsai where you could try out all the different flavors of the tube screamer!
I've already done a bunch of different Tube Screamers as presets here:

https://cytomic.com/files/scream-beta-presets-2.zip

If there are any particular versions you would like a preset of then please post a link to the full schematic of that version and I can easily add it!
Old 8th January 2019
  #213
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by txbdan View Post
With the right schematic and careful sprinkling of 0ohm resistors, you can probably create a ton of different pedals and select them using only presets. Its like pspice but a lot more fun!
That's exactly what I'm aiming for

I've already added extra components to the schematic to do just this.They are the ones with the "*" next to their names. For capacitors you set them to 0 farads to bypass them but for resistors you currently need to set them to 100meg or similar. Would it be better to type an "X" or "-" or "bypass" to indicate it's not in the circuit?

ps: I know you meant it the other way around, but for others please note that "0 ohms" means no resistance at all, which means a wire directly connecting the two points, which will usually cause dramatic change in the behaviour of the circuit. What was intended was a very large resistance: you can insert 1000 meg ohm resistors everywhere and nothing much will change at all in the behaviour or sound of the circuit, in fact in most circuits these very large resistances are found connecting many components as nothing is perfect.
Old 8th January 2019
  #214
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic View Post
That's exactly what I'm aiming for

I've already added extra components to the schematic to do just this.They are the ones with the "*" next to their names. For capacitors you set them to 0 farads to bypass them but for resistors you currently need to set them to 100meg or similar. Would it be better to type an "X" or "-" or "bypass" to indicate it's not in the circuit?

ps: I know you meant it the other way around, but for others please note that "0 ohms" means no resistance at all, which means a wire directly connecting the two points, which will usually cause dramatic change in the behaviour of the circuit. What was intended was a very large resistance: you can insert 1000 meg ohm resistors everywhere and nothing much will change at all in the behaviour or sound of the circuit, in fact in most circuits these very large resistances are found connecting many components as nothing is perfect.
Awesome. No, i meant 0ohm to create a bridge so that you could effectively add in circuits by adding 0Rs as bridges and remove circuit parts by omitting or 1Mohm or something. I'm a EE and we do this in PCB layouts a lot to create Plan Bs in the design. (you can actually buy 0ohm resistors in the typical surface mount package sizes so a pick n place machine can build up the PCB bridges and all). But you get the point!

I think if the intention is to create a special function like an open circuit, some symbol like an "|" could denote that and maybe a "-" to create a bridge or 0ohm. Point being symbols for special functions, bridges or opens, and numbers for functional component values.

Cool stuff!
Old 8th January 2019
  #215
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by txbdan View Post
Awesome. No, i meant 0ohm to create a bridge so that you could effectively add in circuits by adding 0Rs as bridges and remove circuit parts by omitting or 1Mohm or something. I'm a EE and we do this in PCB layouts a lot to create Plan Bs in the design. (you can actually buy 0ohm resistors in the typical surface mount package sizes so a pick n place machine can build up the PCB bridges and all). But you get the point!

I think if the intention is to create a special function like an open circuit, some symbol like an "|" could denote that and maybe a "-" to create a bridge or 0ohm. Point being symbols for special functions, bridges or opens, and numbers for functional component values.

Cool stuff!
Ok, gotcha. I'm trying to keep the switching of large chunks of circuits to a minimum, although this is easy enough in an actual circuit it makes highly optimised circuit solving take considerably more cpu, since I need to model all the extra components all the time to avoid branching!

For low cpu solving it's better to add as few extra passive components as possible, and carefully place them so setting them to different values can emulate as many circuit variations as possible. Anything more drastic it's better to only solve specifically those components switched into the circuit, which means a new solver for every combination of every switch.

Adding extra non-linear components isn't really an option since it means having to start from scratch in terms of how best to optimise the circuit for low cpu. The process is mostly automated, but it does require care and attention to tune it properly for the tradeoffs of memory usage, cpu usage, and audio quality, and for AVX256 I need to keep the total number of lumped non-linearities down to 8 (4 stereo), which limits things considerably. The general full MNA circuit solver of course is fully automated, and can handle an any number and placement of non-linear components, but most people expect a low cpu mode as well, so I need to be careful that the difference in sound isn't too drastic between the low and high cpu modes.

But the plus side is it's around x100 - x400 faster! Which means instead of something taking 400% of your cpu it takes 1% to 4% and you can get on and make music

ps: so yes I will have a bunch of different pedals, but each will be a new product, but each will be able to do as many classic mods to that particular circuit as possible to cover the most ground.
Old 8th January 2019
  #216
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic View Post
I've already done a bunch of different Tube Screamers as presets here:

https://cytomic.com/files/scream-beta-presets-2.zip

If there are any particular versions you would like a preset of then please post a link to the full schematic of that version and I can easily add it!
I was interested in the TS10 which John Mayer uses. I've look around for a schematic but unfortunately all I could find was a veroboard version and I don't know how useful that would be to you.

EDIT: Just saw your "PS" of the last post. Once you get to the RAT and Bluesbreaker I will go ahead and sell my drive pedals since all of them are pretty much a variant of the two. Hopefully my dream of an ITB King of Tone is coming soon.

EDIT2: Strike that, I found a schematic here!

Last edited by rafs; 8th January 2019 at 03:17 PM.. Reason: Clarification
Old 8th January 2019
  #217
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic View Post
Ok, gotcha. I'm trying to keep the switching of large chunks of circuits to a minimum, although this is easy enough in an actual circuit it makes highly optimised circuit solving take considerably more cpu, since I need to model all the extra components all the time to avoid branching!

For low cpu solving it's better to add as few extra passive components as possible, and carefully place them so setting them to different values can emulate as many circuit variations as possible. Anything more drastic it's better to only solve specifically those components switched into the circuit, which means a new solver for every combination of every switch.

Adding extra non-linear components isn't really an option since it means having to start from scratch in terms of how best to optimise the circuit for low cpu. The process is mostly automated, but it does require care and attention to tune it properly for the tradeoffs of memory usage, cpu usage, and audio quality, and for AVX256 I need to keep the total number of lumped non-linearities down to 8 (4 stereo), which limits things considerably. The general full MNA circuit solver of course is fully automated, and can handle an any number and placement of non-linear components, but most people expect a low cpu mode as well, so I need to be careful that the difference in sound isn't too drastic between the low and high cpu modes.

But the plus side is it's around x100 - x400 faster! Which means instead of something taking 400% of your cpu it takes 1% to 4% and you can get on and make music

ps: so yes I will have a bunch of different pedals, but each will be a new product, but each will be able to do as many classic mods to that particular circuit as possible to cover the most ground.
Optimizing this does sound like an interesting problem. I was just reading up on MNA, very cool. Sounds like a fun project!
Old 9th January 2019
  #218
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafs View Post
I was interested in the TS10 which John Mayer uses. I've look around for a schematic but unfortunately all I could find was a veroboard version and I don't know how useful that would be to you.

EDIT: Just saw your "PS" of the last post. Once you get to the RAT and Bluesbreaker I will go ahead and sell my drive pedals since all of them are pretty much a variant of the two. Hopefully my dream of an ITB King of Tone is coming soon.

EDIT2: Strike that, I found a schematic here!
Thanks for putting in some legwork! I don't remember anyone actually asking for a TS10 before, it's not that popular, probably due to the plastic case it came in!

It won't sound much different at all to the TS9 preset I posted to you, most of the tonal differences will be due to the clipping diodes. There is one extra resistor in the signal path between the input buffer, and the main clipping amp, which you most likely won't even hear. They also increased the input bias a little bit, which you can already do with the bias control on The Scream.

The big thing they changed in the TS10 is actually adding an extra transistor so that when you click the pedal into active vs bypass mode it won't do a little chirp squeak like the TS808 / TS9 do. But you only hear this for a fraction of a second as the circuit switches between driven and bypassed sound.

I don't have a TS10, but I can find the spice model of the diodes they used, then add this as a preset
Old 9th January 2019
  #219
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic View Post
Thanks for putting in some legwork! I don't remember anyone actually asking for a TS10 before, it's not that popular, probably due to the plastic case it came in!

It won't sound much different at all to the TS9 preset I posted to you, most of the tonal differences will be due to the clipping diodes. There is one extra resistor in the signal path between the input buffer, and the main clipping amp, which you most likely won't even hear. They also increased the input bias a little bit, which you can already do with the bias control on The Scream.

The big thing they changed in the TS10 is actually adding an extra transistor so that when you click the pedal into active vs bypass mode it won't do a little chirp squeak like the TS808 / TS9 do. But you only hear this for a fraction of a second as the circuit switches between driven and bypassed sound.

I don't have a TS10, but I can find the spice model of the diodes they used, then add this as a preset
I found this cool little PDF from a guy that sells DIY TubeScreamer boards. By having the flexibility of changing the diodes, JFET, and resistors around it looks pretty easy to create all these cool mods. I am buying the plugin tonight!
Old 16th January 2019
  #220
Here for the gear
 

Alright Andy so I've been playing with this for a week now and it sounds incredible! I can't wait until the new version comes out especially for the CPU utilization, right now one instance is taking up 10% so I'm having to print the track. Also looking forward to the other pedals that might come, who knows maybe you'll finally make me sell my Klon(e) and King of Tone!
Old 25th January 2019
  #221
Lives for gear
 
jitterybit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafs View Post
I found this cool little PDF from a guy that sells DIY TubeScreamer boards.
Here's the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b2g113hoph...on-v2.pdf?dl=1


Project here:
Stratus - Ibanez TS-9 Tube Screamer DIY Project PCB - Aion Electronics

I would recommend you check out madbeanpedals.com as well. Here's his ts9
There's probably a mod thread on the forum.
http://madbeanpedals.com/projects/_f...enBean2015.pdf
Old 26th January 2019
  #222
Here for the gear
 

This site has a great breakdown and explanation of the circuit for people who want a better idea of what everything does.

ElectroSmash
Old 1st February 2019
  #223
Gear Addict
 

Just tried this out and i have to say im mighty impressed. Didn't quite get it at first but now i totally do.
Circuits are incredibly hard to model accurately (if we are being honest0 so what andy has done is taken a relatively simple circuit and actually done it extremely well. And it really really does show.
The quality of this thing is second to none. Buying tonight.

I wish every dev was as concerned with quality and offered the extensive upsampling. Super useful.

To Andy, how would you recommend running this? I know the answer is probably 'high SR as possible' but to give a bit of background, last year i was running sessions at 48k and using upsampling wherever i could. Now i am running at 96k. Just wondering what your opinion is on the best compromise.

Cheers for the great work. Also, if you do a Rat...i'm in. Instabuy.
Old 1st February 2019
  #224
Lives for gear
I was recently comparing this to the Joyo Vintage Overdrive pedal, which is an inexpensive Tube Screamer clone, and I couldn't get the hardware to sound quite as good as The Scream. Just hoping someday soon I'll be saying the same about Andy's Big Muff and Rat clones.

Note: Big Muff and Rat clones are wishes. Not any indication of Andy's actual product roadmap (of which I'd know nothing about). The term "someday soon" is also relative.

Last edited by Funkybot; 1st February 2019 at 08:29 PM..
Old 2nd February 2019
  #225
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok87 View Post
This site has a great breakdown and explanation of the circuit for people who want a better idea of what everything does.

ElectroSmash
The electrosmash page is a great resource. They missed mentioning a few minor things, and I only spotted them doing a very in depth model and a lot of listening tests matching things as closely as possible. I found the ESR of the capacitors mattered, as did the bjt input stage of the op-amp which adds some second harmonics distortion which changes with drive, and also the op-amp's internal compensation capacitor skimming a little off the top end as well.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #226
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Carlyon View Post
Just tried this out and i have to say im mighty impressed. Didn't quite get it at first but now i totally do.
Circuits are incredibly hard to model accurately (if we are being honest0 so what andy has done is taken a relatively simple circuit and actually done it extremely well. And it really really does show.
The quality of this thing is second to none. Buying tonight.

I wish every dev was as concerned with quality and offered the extensive upsampling. Super useful.

To Andy, how would you recommend running this? I know the answer is probably 'high SR as possible' but to give a bit of background, last year i was running sessions at 48k and using upsampling wherever i could. Now i am running at 96k. Just wondering what your opinion is on the best compromise.

Cheers for the great work. Also, if you do a Rat...i'm in. Instabuy.
Thanks David! Running at 96khz will sound great unless you're processing something with loads of high frequencies. You can leave the default oversampling settings at x2 realtime / and x8 render. These scaling factors refer to a base rate of 44.1/48 khz, so if your project is already at 96 khz then the x2 setting for realtime won't cause any oversampling to occur. If your software supports offline rendering then you'll automatically get x8 oversampling on render.

I definitely plan on doing a Rat type pedal and a few others too
Old 2nd February 2019
  #227
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic View Post
Thanks David! Running at 96khz will sound great unless you're processing something with loads of high frequencies. You can leave the default oversampling settings at x2 realtime / and x8 render. These scaling factors refer to a base rate of 44.1/48 khz, so if your project is already at 96 khz then the x2 setting for realtime won't cause any oversampling to occur. If your software supports offline rendering then you'll automatically get x8 oversampling on render.

I definitely plan on doing a Rat type pedal and a few others too
Cheers Andy - thats exactly how i was doing it. Thanks for clarifying (i was wondering why 2x still said 96k - its fixed....makes sense)

Great stuff. Really, really like this. Its made me want to pick up my SG again!!
Curious to try it in front of the Fuse audio Labs Fender tweed (think its a 59 bassman) also i thought the IK fender tweeds were pretty damn good.
But i digress......

Have you ever looked at the effectrode pedals? they did a 'tube screamer' type pedal that had tubes in it. Sounds incredible, though its a totally different beast.

Yes, im in for the Rat pedal. Used one for years on stage, love them. No one has nailed that sounds yet.
Old 2nd February 2019
  #228
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I was recently comparing this to the Joyo Vintage Overdrive pedal, which is an inexpensive Tube Screamer clone, and I couldn't get the hardware to sound quite as good as The Scream. Just hoping someday soon I'll be saying the same about Andy's Big Muff and Rat clones.

Note: Big Muff and Rat clones are wishes. Not any indication of Andy's actual product roadmap (of which I'd know nothing about). The term "someday soon" is also relative.
Yes, Rat, Big Muff, and Fuzzface are all planned
Old 5th February 2019
  #229
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

News update: Progress is going well on the final release. I've been working on the warmup code and have re-visited the whole process using my new solver and I'm happy to report that it now starts up with zero thump I measured this on Ableton's meters and it shows -inf when I start up The Scream with a variety of settings. This is up and running for the full solver, and it's now time to get it working for the fixed CPU one and continue and get back to doing the randomisation panel.
Old 5th February 2019
  #230
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic View Post
News update: Progress is going well on the final release. I've been working on the warmup code and have re-visited the whole process using my new solver and I'm happy to report that it now starts up with zero thump I measured this on Ableton's meters and it shows -inf when I start up The Scream with a variety of settings. This is up and running for the full solver, and it's now time to get it working for the fixed CPU one and continue and get back to doing the randomisation panel.
That's great! I can't wait to try out the final version.
Old 22nd February 2019
  #231
Gear Head
 

Not sure if you're planning on including this functionality on the new models, but the voltage and bias controls are my favorite part of the scream.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #232
Hi All,

Just bought "The Scream" and... Wow, it is very impressive ! The sound is clear and warm and the possibilities with the mods are crazy !!!
If you need to buy one distorsion plugin, buy this one ;-) Thanks for your work Andy !
Old 13th March 2019
  #233
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dphelmer View Post
Not sure if you're planning on including this functionality on the new models, but the voltage and bias controls are my favorite part of the scream.
I'll definitely be including the voltage and bias in all the models
Old 13th March 2019
  #234
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by suntsu View Post
Hi All,

Just bought "The Scream" and... Wow, it is very impressive ! The sound is clear and warm and the possibilities with the mods are crazy !!!
If you need to buy one distorsion plugin, buy this one ;-) Thanks for your work Andy !
Thanks for grabbing a copy! There is a lot of detailed but still efficient modelling going on under the hood of this little pedal, and I'm glad you can hear the difference this makes to the tone
Old 19th March 2019
  #235
Gear Head
 

Any chance we can get a Xotic BB preamp sim? i´ve been salivating pretty heavily after andy timmons tone and this is a crucial part of his tone (this pedal into a mesa boogie lonestar and a cabinet with celestion v30)

Schematics i have found:
Perf and PCB Effects Layouts: Xotic BB Preamp

StompBoXed - The Guitar Pedal Builders Repository: Xotic BB Preamp Layout / Schematic / Tag Board

Also one pedal i´ve never seen modeled is the awesome MXR M80 DI+ Bass but everyone and their grandma is modelling the sansamp BDDI and the darkglass..

Schematic of the MXR if you are interested:
https://music-electronics-forum.com/...6&d=1394471829

Even if you totally ignore me XD I´m very curious to see/hear those new algorithms and what other pedals you have been modeling been following this thread for many months waiting for news

Last edited by The-Zeronaut; 19th March 2019 at 05:16 AM..
Old 2nd May 2019
  #236
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic View Post
News update: Progress is going well on the final release. I've been working on the warmup code and have re-visited the whole process using my new solver and I'm happy to report that it now starts up with zero thump I measured this on Ableton's meters and it shows -inf when I start up The Scream with a variety of settings. This is up and running for the full solver, and it's now time to get it working for the fixed CPU one and continue and get back to doing the randomisation panel.
Hi Andy, any updates on the release?
Old 2nd May 2019
  #237
Gear Nut
 

waiting for Scream release is like reading "War and Peace", if you know what I mean.

"good things take time", they say
Old 11th May 2019
  #238
Gear Maniac
 
Schmeckitup's Avatar
 

Future suggestions: Klon and Tim?
Old 24th May 2019
  #239
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmeckitup View Post
Future suggestions: Klon and Tim?
+1 for those exact two classics (and, of course, ALL of the Strymon pedals).
Old 24th May 2019
  #240
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
+1 for those exact two classics (and, of course, ALL of the Strymon pedals).
LOL! +1 to keep the thread alive
Topic:
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