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Nebula Release- CupReels1 - Ax102
Old 17th September 2020
  #151
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beggehorn's Avatar
 

I'm going to try downgrading to "N4 R024 - 08 Jun 2020".

I realized that when I selected a prior version in Aquarius that the most recent few all explicitly state "...Core 16 update. ***EXPERIMENTAL..." once selected.

Thanks for the "backup Setups" tip!

EDIT: The issue with DiBiQuadro Brass sometimes being called up when trying to use Finder to pull up a different AX102 default setup is still happening with N4 R024.

Last edited by beggehorn; 17th September 2020 at 09:29 PM..
Old 17th September 2020
  #152
Gear Maniac
 

Waiting for a N4 sale.

Frustrating because before this plug was released I didn't know anything about nebula. The past year they've done many many sales - at 80% - but nothing recently.

Oh well - waiting patiently as seems to be the way these days for a customer of these companies - who sell their products at 'normal' prices of eg £500 but wow the sale is £100. A bit like Tesco.

It would be really nice if these companies just set their prices at what they thought the value really is instead of asking their customers to become the equivalent of stock market analysts
Old 17th September 2020
  #153
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Cupwise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beggehorn View Post
Thanks again


Also! When using the finder in N4, all AX102 programs appear duplicated in several folders : CR4, CR5, CR8, CR9. Are these the sample rates? If so, why the cryptic naming?

Aren't ACQUAS using the same underlying N4 engine? They don't require users to load specific sample rate programs. The ACQUAS have a single instance that sets itself appropriately. Switches and knobs work without a user having to create and save setups, etc...

There just seems to be some ways that things could be done that would simplify the learning curve in regards to the user experience IMO.
yes those are for the different sample rates, which is explained in the manual.

everyone please pardon this RANT- the naming convention is weird but that's because technically acustica only allow 3 characters for category names. for some reason. now, you might say 'ah but i see category names with more characters so you're wrong!', but that's because later they added something called a dictionary file that takes the known/used 3 character category names used in releases, and expands them into whatever you put into that dictionary file that you want to show up instead of the 3 character name (instead of just making nebula support more than 3 characters directly). weird way of solving the problem, yeah. in other words the 3 character limit still exists, underneath those expanded category names. but that's how they did it. and we're stuck with it. so i can't actually type out what i want for those names like '44.1khz CupReels', instead i have to figure out a way to use 3 characters. three. to describe a category for my releases. and if you think about it, since i want to keep the different sample rates separate, that means i need one of those characters to differentiate, which means i only get TWO characters. but it is what it is. if anyone can think of a better way for me to use those 3 characters i'm all ears (you can't though, because it's only 3 measly characters). so yeah since 44.1khz is represented by a '4' i'm stuck with 48khz having to be represented by a 5. i only explained all of this because a few other people emailed me about this recently and all i can say to everyone is that i assure you i do realize it's wonky and have thought about it longer than you have and have tried my best to make some kind of sense out of the 3 character limit. but i can't. it just doesn't make sense.
it just
doesn't
make
sense
------------end rant

acquas are using a modified version of nebula tech. i don't know what acustica does to get around the sample rate issue. do they have all the different sample rate versions contained in their vector file and somehow the acqua calls them all up depending on what you're using? or does it only contain one sample rate and then uses sample rate conversion to convert them down to the sample rate you're using (which would be my guess). that would be a question for them, and i've never seen anyone ask them.

the acquas do make things a lot simpler. but acustica made the acquas, and they made nebula. i can't just make nebula work in some different way from how they designed it, i have to work with what they allow for (just like with the category names). if you have ideas for how nebula usage could be improved, you would want to direct those ideas to them, not me. i can't do much, or anything in most cases, when it comes to those kinds of things.

with these skins i had two options- have program switching buttons, or have max just do simple skins that have been typical of N4 since it was released, which do not allow to switch between programs. those only provide a new graphical look with no extra functionality. it's literally the same exact nebula but it looks nicer.

when i pressed acustica to add the button switching ability for N3 back around 2014-15 it was because of how my comps have lite, full, and SHQ versions and i wanted a way to switch between those for rendering (without losing control settings). G graciously added that in. but then getting it to work in Nebula 3 skins required more steps than any other skins out at the time. just like now with N4. so i could either go with the simpler skins which are easier to install and don't offer anything besides a new coat of paint on nebula, or we could have skins that actually offer something useful but require a few more steps to install.

that's the choice i'm faced with and i went with having the buttons. max may find ways to refine the steps and make them a little easier but it's basically the same way it was done on N3 back when JPN was doing my skins, except here instead of copying the nebula plugin yourself you're using Nebula setups to do it. so i kind of doubt we or he would be able to find any significantly easier way. that would require acustica to do some kind of update to how this stuff works, which i doubt would happen.

the fact of nebula loading a different program when you try to load one of these, with the finder, is weird. my guess:

a) could be a bug with nebula itself. not much i can do if that's the case

b) just wondering if you correctly installed the programs/vectors. 95% of the time when i get emails about a program not loading in nebula properly it comes down to a mistake was made when installing the program and vector files (usually they didn't install the vectors). thats out of probably hundreds of those emails over 10yrs. so that would be one thing to check, and double check, that you definitely installed the program and vector files correctly. everyone makes mistakes with this stuff, including me, and judging by the emails i get that's a pretty common one.

but once you get the programs loading in n4 properly using that drop down menu you definitely should use max's skin install guide and follow it step by step to get the skins working so you don't have to use the drop down selector menu anymore. that thing is ugly (imo)
Old 17th September 2020
  #154
Gear Head
 
beggehorn's Avatar
 

Ha! Thanks for the explanation.

I'll re-copy the files over again to make sure things are in the correct places.

BTW, I got a Setup for "AX102 Tape Machines" working great in Pro Tools but as I rely on multiple sample rates I've been trying to get four distinct SR setups working. I've gone through the setup a few times and end up with *.aaxplugin files that don't even appear in the plug-ins menu. So... a few more questions.

1. Can all of the "Setups" be created in a single ProTools session? In other words, is the act of creating a Setup in N4 "sample rate agnostic" or do I need to create a dummy session in each of the four sample rates from which I create the individual Setups?

2. The magic IDs I chose to enter need to be unique for each sample rate dependent Setup, correct? I'm using AX44, AX48, AX88, AX96 to differentiate.

I recently installed the DMZN "The Drip '63 GIFT DEMO" programs and their AAX plug-in creation was very easy as the Setup files for the different sample rates were provided. It was nice not to have to manually create Setups, enter in values, etc. and to top it off, it just worked. Load the provided Setup, select plug-in format desired, Save, copy plug-in to plug-ins folder (I did have to declare a custom AAX Setups Directory in N4 settings).

I'll keep trying...

Last edited by beggehorn; 18th September 2020 at 12:19 AM..
Old 18th September 2020
  #155
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beggehorn's Avatar
 

One more question...

In step three of the skin-set installation manual (for N4), the instructions say to:

Copy contents of "Setups 44" (or 48, 88, 96, depending library samplerate)
from folder provided with the product package, to your Nebula4 “Setups”
location, overwriting the files with same names.

Is the 'Nebula4 "Setups" location' the one in the nubularepository folder or the one declared as the AAX Setups directory in N4 (where AAX plug-in files are created)?

Because I'm creating four separate plug-ins, I've created copies of the original "AX102 Tape Machine" XML files located in the different sample rate folders and have named them with the sample rate appended to the end (ie: AX102 Tape Machine 44 kHz", etc..). My impression is that these need to be copied to both the nebularepository/Setups folder as well as placed next to the *.aaxplugin files (of the same name) in my plug-ins folder.

Is that correct?
Old 18th September 2020
  #156
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Cupwise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beggehorn View Post
Ha! Thanks for the explanation.

I'll re-copy the files over again to make sure things are in the correct places.

BTW, I got a Setup for "AX102 Tape Machines" working great in Pro Tools but as I rely on multiple sample rates I've been trying to get four distinct SR setups working. I've gone through the setup a few times and end up with *.aaxplugin files that don't even appear in the plug-ins menu. So... a few more questions.

1. Can all of the "Setups" be created in a single ProTools session? In other words, is the act of creating a Setup in N4 "sample rate agnostic" or do I need to create a dummy session in each of the four sample rates from which I create the individual Setups?

2. The magic IDs I chose to enter need to be unique for each sample rate dependent Setup, correct? I'm using AX44, AX48, AX88, AX96 to differentiate.

I recently installed the DMZN "The Drip '63 GIFT DEMO" programs and their AAX plug-in creation was very easy as the Setup files for the different sample rates were provided. It was nice not to have to manually create Setups, enter in values, etc. and to top it off, it just worked. Load the provided Setup, select plug-in format desired, Save, copy plug-in to plug-ins folder (I did have to declare a custom AAX Setups Directory in N4 settings).

I'll keep trying...
on question 2 i'm pretty sure that yes you'd need different magic numbers for all sample rates. max did the skins for the drip just as he did the skins for my cupreels release so i'm not sure how that one could've been so much easier to set up except that maybe it doesn't have buttons to select different programs with since it's a demo? the full version i saw a picture of looked to have the buttons but maybe the demo doesn't. again, as i've explained, the buttons being on the skin require a bit more complicated install. i either have the buttons or i don't, it's unfortunate but i think having the buttons is worth it

as for question number 1 i'm not sure i understand any of what you're saying or asking there, maybe max can help (i don't know what 'sample rate agnostic' means but my hunch is you're overcomplicating it a bit and it doesn't matter, you just use the setups to create the other instances for the other sample rates. i don't think it'd matter what sample rate you're currently 'in' in your daw when you do it, if that's what you mean)
Old 18th September 2020
  #157
Gear Head
 
beggehorn's Avatar
 

Sorry... Question 1 boiled down to:

"Can I create a 44.1 setup from a N4 instance in a 48k Pro Tools Session".

I think you answered that in your last reply. Thx!
Old 18th September 2020
  #158
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupwise View Post
...i don't know what acustica does to get around the sample rate issue. do they have all the different sample rate versions contained in their vector file and somehow the acqua calls them all up depending on what you're using? or does it only contain one sample rate and then uses sample rate conversion to convert them down to the sample rate you're using (which would be my guess). that would be a question for them, and i've never seen anyone ask them.
As far as I can tell, the Acquas have separate sample rate vector files, contained in the same folder, and presumably the modified version of N4 takes the sample rate from the DAW clocking, loading the correct SR vectors. Same thing seems to happen with the N4 Acqua libraries. With Trials, they only supply two SR and convert 48/88 in real time, but the commercial versions (mostly) have all the separate vectors. So it can be done either way, but separate vectors seem much more reliable in my usage: I've had issues that are like your bionic programs when the sample rate hasn't converted properly in a trial Acqua (presumably because my interface hadn't shifted to the correct sample rate before the plugin loaded I guess).
Old 18th September 2020
  #159
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Cupwise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkandKurious View Post
As far as I can tell, the Acquas have separate sample rate vector files, contained in the same folder, and presumably the modified version of N4 takes the sample rate from the DAW clocking, loading the correct SR vectors. Same thing seems to happen with the N4 Acqua libraries. With Trials, they only supply two SR and convert 48/88 in real time, but the commercial versions (mostly) have all the separate vectors. So it can be done either way, but separate vectors seem much more reliable in my usage: I've had issues that are like your bionic programs when the sample rate hasn't converted properly in a trial Acqua (presumably because my interface hadn't shifted to the correct sample rate before the plugin loaded I guess).
yeah that's a problem i've seen before too, and yeah it is kind of similar to my bionic reverbs in sound, like everything is shifted up or down. i'm pretty sure there's a parameter in the main setup xml (i'm not sure all acquas even have those but i think all of the ones i have do):
<RATECONVERSION> xx </RATECONVERSION>

that's also in nebula. if you have that issue, increasing that value can prevent it. the parameter itself is like a time limit, it's how long nebula will have to finish the conversion and if it doesn't do it in that time it will just give up. again, i have no idea why nebula was designed this way, why there would be a parameter like that. i mean i could see in some extreme case where it just keeps trying to do something forever and you'd want a failsafe, but the default setting is sometimes clearly not enough to convert things (usually longer impulse programs like reverbs). it just seems like a weird setting to make available to end users and a weird thing to have it set by default where it can fail and cause problems. but it did always seem nebula wasn't really built with reverbs in mind.

your observation about how acqua works makes sense. it would stand to reason that if they could make acquas do that (load the correct sample rate vector automatically), they could('ve) make/made nebula do that too...
Old 18th September 2020
  #160
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ceejay's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by beggehorn View Post
One more question...

In step three of the skin-set installation manual (for N4), the instructions say to:

Copy contents of "Setups 44" (or 48, 88, 96, depending library samplerate)
from folder provided with the product package, to your Nebula4 “Setups”
location, overwriting the files with same names.

Is the 'Nebula4 "Setups" location' the one in the nubularepository folder or the one declared as the AAX Setups directory in N4 (where AAX plug-in files are created)?

Because I'm creating four separate plug-ins, I've created copies of the original "AX102 Tape Machine" XML files located in the different sample rate folders and have named them with the sample rate appended to the end (ie: AX102 Tape Machine 44 kHz", etc..). My impression is that these need to be copied to both the nebularepository/Setups folder as well as placed next to the *.aaxplugin files (of the same name) in my plug-ins folder.
You have to copy/overwrite that XML only to Nebula / Setups folder, and after the Setups procedure.
I think i'll create a new, updated skin setup for AX102 (like i did with DRIP'63) Will post here as soon as i come up with it tomorrow.
Old 18th September 2020
  #161
Gear Head
 
beggehorn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceejay View Post
You have to copy/overwrite that XML only to Nebula / Setups folder, and after the Setups procedure.
I think i'll create a new, updated skin setup for AX102 (like i did with DRIP'63) Will post here as soon as i come up with it tomorrow.
Hey that's great, ceejay. Yeah, the Setups you created for "The Drip" made the process much simpler.

BTW, I got it all working today... perhaps just a clear head helped. I got the Tape and Reverb programs created and also managed to get LunchPail working as well (all four sample rates).

I have another question about strange gain behavior in LunchPail but I'll hit Tim up via the website. I think I've derailed this thread enough!

Let me say, I'm loving the saturation of AX102 when driving with Trim. Really great for solidifying drums!
Old 19th September 2020
  #162
Gear Maniac
 

Finally got the skins installed correctly - after following the N4 instructions, this time I skipped to the Troubleshooting section. followed that and it looks like what I'm, seeing matches what's in the manual and everyone's posts now. I really appreciate the extra instructions an comments - after having been away from Nebula for a coupla of years I thought some of the issues would have been solved by now. We can have an N4 usability discussion any day of the week sometime later but not here.

On to the sounds of the AX102!!!
Old 19th September 2020
  #163
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ceejay's Avatar
I updated the skins with new simpler setup method (already tested with DRIP'63 and L-BUS skins)
All files sent to Tim, to include in lib package and simplify setup procedure for new customers/users
(no need to re-install/update skins if you already have AX102 skins up and working fine)
Old 19th September 2020
  #164
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceejay View Post
You have to copy/overwrite that XML only to Nebula / Setups folder, and after the Setups procedure.
I think i'll create a new, updated skin setup for AX102 (like i did with DRIP'63) Will post here as soon as i come up with it tomorrow.
Just a suggestion. Stop refining the process for setting up the skins. Once I learn one way, the instructions change slightly and I have to learn new way. When I set up new machine in future, it will seem easy to get confused.
The way from two months ago was fine.
Remember that the user has limited time to learn new instructions or slightly changed instructions.
For example, on a recent one we no longer have to select skins in setup. It is done automatically. That is cool. BUT there are older skins you made where we do have to select the skin. Now we will have to remember or carefully read instructions each time to know what to do.
Old 19th September 2020
  #165
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ceejay's Avatar
@ sound_of_ours sure, i got your point. But read a few posts from @ beggehorn above for example. There is also a looot of people contacting me and Tim via email, facebook, patreon etc, asking same questions over and over again. This is why i keep searching the way to simplify the setup procedure.
Current method is most simple, you just have to copy files and choose your plugin format. That's it. No more renaming/copying before/after, no need to enter TWEAKS for every seetup, it's already included etc. etc.
This things may looks not too drastic for us, Nebula veterans, but for the Nebula newbies it's scary hard at 1st sight. So i keep searching the way to simplify their life)
Old 19th September 2020
  #166
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Cupwise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
Just a suggestion. Stop refining the process for setting up the skins. Once I learn one way, the instructions change slightly and I have to learn new way. When I set up new machine in future, it will seem easy to get confused.
The way from two months ago was fine.
Remember that the user has limited time to learn new instructions or slightly changed instructions.
For example, on a recent one we no longer have to select skins in setup. It is done automatically. That is cool. BUT there are older skins you made where we do have to select the skin. Now we will have to remember or carefully read instructions each time to know what to do.
well the issue is that a good couple of handfuls of people have had issues or problems with the current system, for whatever reason, so if there's a way to simplify or streamline it i think that's a good thing. max graciously already came up with an updated setup, and i'm going to be sending emails out for that soon, with the disclaimer that if you already have the skins working you can safely just 100% ignore this update. all it does is make the installation process smoother, it doesn't change anything about the skins themselves (except for adding a retina version that makes the skins easier to see, i think? i'm not 100% up on that but i did notice max mention it in the nebula best ofs thread).

the ax102 was the first of my releases to have this style of skins for n4 upon release, 'officially'. so it stands to reason that there would be some hiccups/speed bumps, but now that max has refined it a bit, i think it's a good idea to move forward with that. if it helps avoid the amount of emails i've got about this issue moving forward, i'm all for it.

and bottom line it always is a good idea to read the manual/guide when installing the skins (or even using the programs), in any case. it's really the only and simplest/easiest way to avoid confusion. from my personal experience people get confused a lot of the times because they *didn't* read the manual closely. unfortunately nebula isn't some simple plug and play thing where it just simply works perfectly with a super easy install. it's always been a bit more hands on, requiring a little more effort on the part of the users, for over 10yrs now. this means reading the manual if you really want to understand what's going on. there's no way around that.

EDIT- i hadn't seen max's post but now looking at it i'm basically just saying the same thing. heh, well, anyway, thanks max for updating the skin install process!
Old 20th September 2020
  #167
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Crush View Post
You buy N4
There's a free N4 player which gives you option to run certain acqua libraries
...Or, I don't buy N4.

cheers.
Old 20th September 2020
  #168
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thermos's Avatar
This is SO the best tape plug on the market. I started using it in mixing and found the CPU to be less offensive than I thought it would be as well.
Old 20th September 2020
  #169
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Cupwise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
This is SO the best tape plug on the market. I started using it in mixing and found the CPU to be less offensive than I thought it would be as well.
thanks! yeah the cpu is probably around what the lowest typical n3/n4 programs usage would be. the tape programs are basically like preamp-style programs, which use less CPU than any other program type, i think, except for maybe something like a simple EQ program, since EQ programs normally don't have sample dynamics.

basically yeah these don't use anything close to a reverb, or compressors, in terms of CPU use. they're relatively simple programs in terms of how they work. making them was far from simple though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
...Or, I don't buy N4.

cheers.
always an option. it's always good to weigh your options and be informed about them, and weigh the costs involved.
Old 20th September 2020
  #170
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupwise View Post
...it's always good to weigh your options and be informed about them, and weigh the costs involved.
True.

I understand that much work has been put into developing Nebula, and have no beef about the cost of the full player, or that access to popular quality plugins requires me to 'buy-in' to the platform... and purchase N4.

It's cool. Thankfully we now have a global plugin environment that presents other quality alternatives...
Old 20th September 2020
  #171
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I love the dynamics section. Really nice.
Old 21st September 2020
  #172
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B Elgin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger View Post
I love the dynamics section. Really nice.
This was a surprise for me too even on its own. Really cool on drum mics or rooms to take transients down and get more length/tone.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #173
Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger View Post
I love the dynamics section. Really nice.
Agreed! And again, that very 'hardware-tape-familiar' feel.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cracker satchmo View Post
Agreed! And again, that very 'hardware-tape-familiar' feel.
I wouldn't know!

Sounds just great, though.

I'm using it in mastering on its own as a tasteful enhancer.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #175
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Cupwise's Avatar
 

really happy people are liking the dynamic program enough that i'm seeing so many comments about people even using it on its own. when i made it i wasn't really expecting that kind of response. great to see!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupwise View Post
really happy people are liking the dynamic program enough that i'm seeing so many comments about people even using it on its own. when i made it i wasn't really expecting that kind of response. great to see!
i stll record mostly to tape so it's not something i remember from 20 years ago... and yea it was another goosebump moment when cranking up the dynamic program a bit and hearing that very particular behaviour/sound - you're king of the reel hill!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #177
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupwise View Post
really happy people are liking the dynamic program enough that i'm seeing so many comments about people even using it on its own. when i made it i wasn't really expecting that kind of response. great to see!
Yeah, I really liked the compressor when I first heard it. I said, that sounds darn good. Lol. It is gentle and adds a little extra something.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #178
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceejay View Post

I bought UAD version at the release day for almost full price back in the days, but wasn't able to use it as often as i supposed.
Unfortunately can't do a direct compare now, because i sold UAD two years ago to upgrade my machine and use more Nebula instances!
Similar experience with UAD version years back - first of their plugins i got; my main reason (hope) to go UAD... which after much blissless experimentation became the reason to drop it all and return to hardware reels.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #179
Gear Addict
 
Robb Robinson's Avatar
 

Johnny come lately here but wow this library sounds gorgeous!

Ive now got an ATR102 sitting in the corner totally pissed off.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #180
Gear Head
 
Frellin' Smesh's Avatar
 

I refuse to buy Nebula as its usage is a little too convoluted for my tastes (no pun intended).

Can anybody explain why Acustica are incapable of making a Tape Machine that sounds THIS good??

I have Acustica's Taupe, but CupReels1 - Ax102 makes a mockery of Acustica's efforts!

How does a 3rd party developer consistently smoke you on your own platform!?

I REALLY wish Acustica would turn this AX102 into an Acqua plugin, or integrate it into Taupe somehow.

Well done Cupwise for showing us what we have ALL been missing!
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