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Roland Introduces ZENOLOGY Expandable Plug-In
Old 21st May 2020
  #61
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Tubthumper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens View Post
Not bad, but does it show Zenology as purchasable too? That's really the only one I want.
I don't think so, I believe it's subscription only for Zenology.

Just click "Lifetime Key" about halfway down the page:
https://www.rolandcloud.com/roland-account/memberships/

For me here in Australia, $2.99 US per month for Zenology Core subscription = $5.00 AU, bugger all really.
Old 21st May 2020
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubthumper View Post
I don't think so, I believe it's subscription only for Zenology.

Just click "Lifetime Key" about halfway down the page:
https://www.rolandcloud.com/roland-account/memberships/

For me here in Australia, $2.99 US per month for Zenology Core subscription = $5.00 AU, bugger all really.
True, at $3 that's actually one sub you could let run for 10 years and still not amount to much. Just noticed the Pro editor is on the $10 one though. For 5 years of sub you could get the MC101 and have some hardware (assuming this is going to get the Pro editor).

Just wonder if the MC101 will get the new model packs that the Pro membership has coming.
Old 21st May 2020
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubthumper View Post
I had a look last weekend, $150 USD per softsynth.

Seems reasonable to me.
It depends on the synth. Many are $150, but I saw that some are $99.
Old 21st May 2020
  #64
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Tubthumper's Avatar
 

Sorry, I missed that. I checked the purchase prices on the Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 and stopped there - they're the models I'm keen on.

But yeah, some for $99, some for $129 (USD).

BUT, there are upcoming modules for Zenology, Model Expansions, these are different versions of the classic hardware synths, designed to run within Zenology. These are only available in the Pro and Ultimate subscriptions by the looks.

I'm unsure if/how they differ to the standalone softsynths themselves.
Old 21st May 2020
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubthumper View Post
BUT, there are upcoming modules for Zenology, Model Expansions, these are different versions of the classic hardware synths, designed to run within Zenology. These are only available in the Pro and Ultimate subscriptions by the looks.

I'm unsure if/how they differ to the standalone softsynths themselves.
Yes, I am curious about those too.

Currently, I am just on the lowest paid subscription, which gives me access to all of the presets in the Zenology plugin, but if those upcoming modules are really good and useful, then I'll probably upgrade to one of the higher subscriptions.

I also wonder if they will be as CPU heavy as the current legendary synths, because they are definitely very heavy on the CPU. They do sound good though.
Old 21st May 2020
  #66
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Tubthumper's Avatar
 

Yeah, if the new "model expansions" cut the mustard, I'll probably upgrade my subscription too.
Old 21st May 2020
  #67
Gear Maniac
 

I believe that the original soft synths are ACB models, while the new modules coming from the Jupiter-X are based on Zen Core parameter manipulation (the Zen Core has some VA going on as well, but it is not ACB). Basically more behavior modeling than component modeling. Thus they will be lower CPU.

Spoff
Old 21st May 2020
  #68
The ACB ones I think do full circuity where as the Zen ones are simplified but still modelled (they mention the filters are modelled). So you probably get the major bits modelled but not everything like with ACB.
Old 26th May 2020
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2 View Post
Nobody knows what ACB does exactly since nobody outside Roland has read the source code of ACB devices and plug-outs. I'd be very careful with all that Roland marketing. There is absolutely no proof that ACB is more accurately emulating vintage Roland synths. From a developer stand point, I doubt that ACB does model electrical circuits and their behavior 1:1.
Guess we can A/B them to see if it makes a difference.
Old 26th May 2020
  #70
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Musician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens View Post
Guess we can A/B them to see if it makes a difference.
That is exactly what I wonna know.
Old 27th May 2020
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2 View Post
Nobody knows what ACB does exactly since nobody outside Roland has read the source code of ACB devices and plug-outs. I'd be very careful with all that Roland marketing. There is absolutely no proof that ACB is more accurately emulating vintage Roland synths. From a developer stand point, I doubt that ACB does model electrical circuits and their behavior 1:1.
You shouldn't say things like that without any substantiation. Why do you believe they aren't being honest? You could say the same about U-he, Synapse, Cytomic or any other developer that does modelling, since you haven't seen the source code.

There are videos on Youtube with Roland's engineers talking about ACB. I'm inclined to take their word for it.
Old 27th May 2020
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
You shouldn't say things like that without any substantiation. Why do you believe they aren't being honest? You could say the same about U-he, Synapse, Cytomic or any other developer that does modelling, since you haven't seen the source code.

There are videos on Youtube with Roland's engineers talking about ACB. I'm inclined to take their word for it.
I think they must be doing more than basic models as at least with the SH-2 it was uncanny in how close it would be at every setting I tried.

I'd make a patch on the Sh-2 and then copy over to the plugin and it was bang on each time, even on more extreme settings.

Only difference was the hardware had a beefier low midrange and smoother detuning.

But I doubt just basic models would get that close.

I don't think there is an equivalent Zen model of the Sh-2 to compare to though.
Old 28th May 2020
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens View Post
Only difference was the hardware had a beefier low midrange and smoother detuning.
This.

It's something I hear consistently when I shootout a hardware Vs softsynth, or watch a YouTube comparison clip.

The hardware typically sounds beefier, more solid, focussed.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #74
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wakestyle's Avatar
This is awesome, a long time coming. Just for those who might not get that this is free with a free cloud subscription. over 180 presets to play (no editing except effects and the basics). I like where this is going.
Sound is fantastic.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #75
Gear Maniac
 
Prince Vision's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubthumper View Post
I went for the "Core" subscription, after reading that, after initial authorisation, you only need to be online once very 7 days.

Good grief, this thing sounds incredible. I'm rapt that I get access to 4000 killer sounds, many of which are instantly recognisable as classic Jupiter 8, Juno 106 etc etc

What I cant comprehend is this: almost 4000 presets, stellar sound quality, all in a download of approx. 180 MB.

How is that possible?

I was expecting 35 GB or something absurd.
That's because your thinking of sample/wav based libraries (ie, kontakt, UVI). Roland's synths (as well as many other hardware inspired VST's) are digitally modeled emulations, so its just code (1's and 0's) with a bulk of the size coming from graphics and the basic wavefoms used for hybrid sound design. The exception would be Rolands concerto libraries, which are sample based.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #76
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Tubthumper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Vision View Post
That's because your thinking of sample/wav based libraries (ie, kontakt, UVI). Roland's synths (as well as many other hardware inspired VST's) are digitally modeled emulations, so its just code (1's and 0's) with a bulk of the size coming from graphics and the basic wavefoms used for hybrid sound design. The exception would be Rolands concerto libraries, which are sample based.
Interesting, thanks.

Still loving Zenology, it's a great way to while away countless hours in isolation.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #77
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StoneyBCN's Avatar
 

I don't believe there are any waveform samples AT ALL in ACB. It's very trivial to code a simple phase driver and waveshaper to make a digital oscillator. It's not all that much harder to add a bit of freq/phase irregularity to the output either, to create mis-shapen waves that people get hard about. You can make a digital oscillator from scratch in Reaktor in just a few mins. A bit more for a fully anti-aliased BLIT. These are not wavetable synths at all, IMO. Would not make sense to use wavetables or samples in this case. More likely some smart cookie in Japan has created some kind of circuit emulation environment, where you drag and drop a circuit drawing in, and get messy, un-optimized pile of code out.

If ACB were just wavetables and generic filters stacked together, we'd probably have the whole roster by now.

It seems Zenology might usurp ACB in Roland Cloud's future plans, which is pretty sad. They didn't even bother releasing the last of the boutiques.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #78
Lives for gear
 

Off topic, I just want a vsti Integra.

My sc88 died after many years of fantastic service. Roland's va stuff...sorta pretty close. Not particularly interested in other brand rompler-type libraries.

I'm only half absorbing the implications of this new Roland tech.

An Integra vst would be useful. I'm looking for an excuse to not buy the hardware.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Off topic, I just want a vsti Integra.

My sc88 died after many years of fantastic service. Roland's va stuff...sorta pretty close. Not particularly interested in other brand rompler-type libraries.

I'm only half absorbing the implications of this new Roland tech.

An Integra vst would be useful. I'm looking for an excuse to not buy the hardware.
Integra VST..doubt it. BUT, u can get a lot of
the sounds in the Integra from all the
Roland Cloud SRX expansions and the Roland Cloud JV-1080 and XV-5080.

I’ve been hoping for Roland Cloud JP-8000
for ages. Maybe that will make it into
the new synths coming to the Zenology
plugin.

I have the Ultimate subscription and use
every one of the instruments available
for it, every day. It’s the best bang for
the buck I know of.
Old 3 days ago
  #80
Here for the gear
 

Anyone got any idea how to get Zenology to install from Roland Cloud Manager ?
I have a the Ultimate subscription but everytime I try and install Zenology I get an error saying the cloud service isnt available. Same with R-MIX
I can install other software off roland cloud manager ?
I have had a docket loged with support for about a week but all i get is that is with their Dev team ?
Old 3 days ago
  #81
Gear Nut
 

I had to download the installer from their website once or twice. Not sure of the link off hand but shouldn't be too hard to find.
Old 3 days ago
  #82
Lives for gear
 
Tubthumper's Avatar
 

Roland has a dodgy website and/or problematic software??

That never happens.....



Sorry bud, I'm clueless. I logged in to their Cloud, selected "Libraries", clicked "Install" on Zenology, all went without a hitch.
Old 3 days ago
  #83
Lives for gear
 

New update for Zenology out - and the first synth for Zenology, the JX-8P, is
now available as a Zenology expansion pack.

Gotta say it..the Zenology JX-8P sounds AWESOME. Better than the Roland Cloud ACB JX-3P and Roland Cloud ACB Jupiter-8. I had a feeling it would..

I had a JX-8P and later a Super JX-10. The Zenology JX-8P sounds like I remember the JX-8P sounded - it's that sound. The Super JX-10 was based on the JX-8P and so it isn't hard to get Super JX 10 sounds out of the Zenology JX-8P.

Kudos to Roland! Fingers crossed that the next Zenology expansion is gonna be the JP-8000.
Old 3 days ago
  #84
Lives for gear
 
Tubthumper's Avatar
 

Thanks Dave, it's great to get opinions from people with experience in the original hardware synths.

Just regarding the underlying technologies (e.g. ACB), is anyone able to give me a heads up on Roland's different technologies for softsynths?

I'm new to Roland Cloud and I'm keen to get up to speed with the different modelling systems.
Old 3 days ago
  #85
Looks like the first four will be the JX-8P, SH-101, Juno-106, and Jupiter-8.

https://www.musicradar.com/news/4-cl...-and-jupiter-8

Old 16 hours ago
  #86
Here for the gear
 

Zenology Expansions Packs

I got FL to reconize my Zenology but I guess I'm clueless about where I should be installing the Expansion Packs on a Windows system. Anyone do this and can help?

It also would have been nice if this was also VST2.
Old 16 hours ago
  #87
Gear Nut
 

You can install the packs wherever you like. I put them in a folder on my desktop. As as example

Zenology Expansions\ZEN-Core Sound Packs
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