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Softube and Weiss Release EQ1, Gambit Series for Console 1 and Complete Collection
Old 4 weeks ago
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse View Post
Kind of sick of being cattleprodded by Softube's prices. I bought the DS-1 Mk3 on intro. It's superb. (But Omnisum may actually be better, at least on much of the material I've tried them on - for $150 intro.) Once again I'm stunned at being shown $410 as an "upgrade price" from Mk3 - while Console one owners can get it at a reasonable, market-aware rate.
Actually you can get it for 348.50$ if you enter the "INTROSUBCLUB" voucher when upgrading to the EQ+DS bundle. Still a bit expensive in my opinion.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #62
Lives for gear
 

These are the best digital filters I have ever heard.

But I have some very real criticisms which, as it stands, are making me question the decision to purchase.

Criticisms:

1: The UI is not resizeable.
This is, in my opinion, a major design flaw. There isn't even a magnification option. Well there might be but see point 2:
(This crit applies to the ds1 as well but it is even more critical on something as fiddly as an EQ!)

2: There is no manual.
And in general the process of getting a softube manual is infuriating. Everything is stuck in one five hundred page pdf.

Update: There is a manual, it doesn't download with the product download, when you click "Manual" from within the plugin it takes you to the 500 page manual for every single softube plugin, except for the weiss eq1.
Also, there is no obvious manual placed anywhere on the product page, which, to me at least, is kind of annoying.


3: Soloing Bands causes a huge drop in volume

4: In M/S, Soloing a band in side plays back a summed mono signal.
(Which can be useful, but you know, sides aren't exactly known for summing well...
Plus, I EQ sides as I hear them, in the sides. Does anyone have a reason for why they do this?? Is there something i don't know about eqing sides??)

5: The 'large view' could very easily just extend upwards from the original interface.
This would double to serve as a way to see individual setting more clearly along with analyzer.

6: The only shortcut I could find (see point 2!) was to use the mouse wheel to broaden and tighten q, and double clicking a band in the large view to bypass it.
Shortcuts are incredibly useful. I don't want to have to right click and open a sub menu to solo a band and then go back to the sub menu to un-solo. I want to hold down a modifier. I almost always want to be able to hold down a modifier. Modifiers are unbelievable efficient.
WHY WOULD THEY NOT USE MODIFIERS?!?!?!

Update: They use some modifiers, though their implementation is a bit strange and not very extensive. You have to release a click and reclick whilst holding control/shift in order to engage the freq/bandwidth/gain lock.
Double click enables a band which is OK I guess. I prefer holding a modifier and using a single click, but that is just preference. Also there is no shortcut/modifier for solo band.


7: Bypassing a band in the large view leaves a dot floating in the middle of the analyzer with no indication as to the shape of the band.
This is far more annoying than I realized it might be. A less opaque indication of the slope/function of that band would be super helpful in navigating what I am doing. This is exacerbated by point 8.

8: All bands are present, as a dot, on the analyzer regardless of whether they are in use or not.
I get that it is a 7 band eq, but i REALLY don't need have seven dots present the whole time. It makes navigating the view much more cluttered. Their appearance on the spectrum at a double click in the relevant frequency would be far cleaner. It is very rare that I use seven bands of eq on any one source (Though don't think I don't appreciate the possibility, Softube).

9: The use in Mid/Side is unbelievably clunky.
a second graphic appearing with two sets of controls marked "Mid" and "Side" would be very very useful. On the larger display the different bands could appear as different colours.

10: Have I mentioned how annoying it is to find any of the manuals for softube products???
Also, the softube Central is INFURIATING



11: Not a crit, but I would buy dedicated 1-knob-1-job controller for either of Weiss plugins in a second. Bonus points if they could make the display bigger on the controller than on the original.

Last edited by africantigercow; 4 weeks ago at 11:42 PM.. Reason: To admit I was wrong
Old 4 weeks ago
  #63
Lives for gear
 
Strut78's Avatar
Also it would be great if they offered an upgrade path for customers with a couple of the smaller ds1 components. I have the separate de-esser and the compressor/limiter modules and the only option is to upgrade from the compressor module with no additional discount for the de-esser.

I guess if I upgrade I’ll then have a spare de-esser license to sell.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #64
Lives for gear
 
javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse View Post
But not sure I like a business model that rewards loyalty-dongle ownership while leveling pricing that is comparatively punitive at everyone else.
I don't think there is a "loyalty-dongle" ownership reward. The less expensive plugin for Console 1 owners is missing many features of the full plugins... hence the less expensive price for it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #65
This "price gouging" angle is such crybaby BS. Weiss has taken a huge step toward hardware obsolescence by allowing their code to be migrated to plugin form. The value of their hardware, and potential for future sales, has just tanked. And I don't think it's unfair to ask such prices for products which have earned incredible prestige. One eq is not valued the same as every other. Someone said that those complaining about the price are not the target audience and I completely agree. For many, other, lesser eqs will get the job done and they'll sleep just fine. For a certain ilk of engineer, however, this will be considered an amazing bargain and a no-brainer investment. No longer do we need to fork over a couple of tens of thousands of dollars for all this hardware -- we can get it all for a mere fraction, and the end result (the sound) will be *identical.* Not emulated... identical!

It's entirely understandable to feel that it's too much money for an eq, but your unique relationship with money doesn't in any way dictate the value of this product.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #66
Gear Maniac
 
Durk Diggler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by africantigercow View Post
But I have some very real criticisms.
Noted. But you should consider using more caps lock + ? + ! + bold, underlined text and italics. The more merrier. IT adds depth to the criticism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #67
Gear Addict
 

Really!?? Why on earth would they do that? Even if there aren't enough knobs, unassigned parameters could still be adjusted by other input. !?!

Ok now I'm just confused by the whole mess. Another not-so-great feeling to have about a vendor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
I don't think there is a "loyalty-dongle" ownership reward. The less expensive plugin for Console 1 owners is missing many features of the full plugins... hence the less expensive price for it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #68
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by africantigercow View Post
1: The UI is not resizeable. This is, in my opinion, a major design flaw. There isn't even a magnification option. Well there might be but see point 2:
(This crit applies to the ds1 as well but it is even more critical on something as fiddly as an EQ!)
Just bough mine today, and I have to agree that the non-resizeable UIs of EQ1 and DS2 is really bugging me too - they are just toooooooo small!!!!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #69
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
This "price gouging" angle is such crybaby BS. Weiss has taken a huge step toward hardware obsolescence by allowing their code to be migrated to plugin form. The value of their hardware, and potential for future sales, has just tanked. And I don't think it's unfair to ask such prices for products which have earned incredible prestige. One eq is not valued the same as every other. Someone said that those complaining about the price are not the target audience and I completely agree. For many, other, lesser eqs will get the job done and they'll sleep just fine. For a certain ilk of engineer, however, this will be considered an amazing bargain and a no-brainer investment. No longer do we need to fork over a couple of tens of thousands of dollars for all this hardware -- we can get it all for a mere fraction, and the end result (the sound) will be *identical.* Not emulated... identical!

It's entirely understandable to feel that it's too much money for an eq, but your unique relationship with money doesn't in any way dictate the value of this product.
Yeah, fair enough. Almost. I don't think you can argue that there aren't at least reasonable questions to be asked about this. Do we really suppose that everyone else in the game cannot and has not been able to design an outstanding set of digital filters in the intervening 24 years? (I mean, the answer may be 'yes,' but you can forgive me for finding that pretty doubtful a priori. Thus I'll need to test the living crap out of this demo.)
It may just as reasonably be that one's "unique relationship" with the hardware - real or thru hearsay - is what is driving such an assumption.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #70
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by africantigercow View Post
These are the best digital filters I have ever heard.

But I have some very real criticisms.

Criticisms:

1: The UI is not resizeable. This is, in my opinion, a major design flaw. There isn't even a magnification option. Well there might be but see point 2:
(This crit applies to the ds1 as well but it is even more critical on something as fiddly as an EQ!)

2: There is no manual. And in general the process of getting a softube manual is infuriating. Everything is stuck in one five hundred page pdf.

3: Soloing Bands causes a huge drop in volume

4: In M/S Soloing a band in side plays back a summed mono signal. (Which can be useful, but you know, sides aren't exactly known for summing well... Plus, I EQ sides as I hear them, in the sides. Does anyone have a reason for why they do this?? Is there something i don't know about eqing sides??)

5: The 'large view' could very easily just extend upwards from the original interface, this would double to serve as a way to see individual setting more clearly along with analyzer.

6: The only shortcut I could find (see point 2!) was to use the mouse wheel to broaden and tighten q, and double clicking a band in the large view to bypass it. Shortcuts are incredibly useful. I don't want to have to right click and open a sub menu to solo a band and then go back to the sub menu to un-solo. I want to hold down a modifier. I almost always want to be able to hold down a modifier. Modifiers are unbelievable efficient. WHY WOULD THEY NOT USE MODIFIERS?!?!?!

7: Bypassing a band in the large view leaves a dot floating in the middle of the analyzer with no indication as to the shape of the band. This is far more annoying than I realized it might be. A less opaque indication of the slope/function of that band would be super helpful in navigating what I am doing. This is exacerbated by point 8.

8: All bands are present, as a dot, on the analyzer regardless of whether they are in use or not. I get that it is a 7 band eq, but i REALLY don't need have seven dots present the whole time. It makes navigating the view much more cluttered. Their appearance on the spectrum at a double click in the relevant frequency would be far cleaner. It is very rare that I use seven bands of eq on any one source (Though don't think I don't appreciate the possibility, Softube).

9: The use in Mid/Side is unbelievably clunky. a second graphic appearing with two sets of controls marked "Mid" and "Side" would be very very useful. On the larger display the different bands could appear as different colours.

10: Have I mentioned how annoying it is to find any of the manuals for softube products??? Also, the softube Central is INFURIATING

11: Not a crit, but I would buy dedicated 1-knob-1-job controller for either of Weiss plugins in a second. Bonus points if they could make the display bigger on the controller than on the original.
I agree with everything, but specially 1 and 5.

I'm having a bad time messing with the plugin because of the small GUI and even smaller values.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #71
Lives for gear
 
javahut's Avatar
I have to agree about the non-resizable GUIs on especially the Weiss plugins. Okay, yeah, the sound is worth the not insignificant cost. But the lack of resizable interface in the age of 4K and 8K displays is definitely third rate... or to be charitable... "a little too retro" for the price.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
I agree with everything, but specially 1 and 5.

I'm having a bad time messing with the plugin because of the small GUI and even smaller values.
Yep the GUI has some tiny annoying displays indeed...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #73
Lives for gear
 

Just want to say that it does sound great and I actually think the price is a bargain. We are talking about a 1:1 recreation of a 10k unit.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #74
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Softube View Post
Hey, Tom from Softube here. I just want to address upgrade paths and Console 1 not recognizing the new channel strip:

All owners of separate Weiss licences have available upgrade paths to the Weiss Complete Collection. To see your upgrade price, make sure you're logged into your Softube account, and you'll find it on the Weiss Complete Collection product page. Important to note is that you will not get an upgrade price from any Volume collection. Upgrade paths work by sacrificing previous licences, and we wouldn't want to take your whole Volume licence.

About Console 1 not recognizing the new Weiss Gambit Series expansion: older versions of the Console 1 software won't recognize expansions that were released after it. As long as you're running the most recent version of the Console 1 software, you should be golden.

If you're experiencing issues with upgrade prices, the channel strip not working, or really anything else Softube-related, you can always send an email to [email protected].

Hope this helps!
/Tom
I’ve had my eye on this Weiss eq coming out, but I can’t risk making a purchase with this company due to a lack of customer support I’ve experienced.
I recently purchased the Weiss compressor, and haven’t had success downloading. A week ago from today I contacted Softube and have not got any help at all from a guy named Mattias. He’s responded only twice with no help, and he’s not getting back to me. I’ve never had such a bad experience with customer service from any other software company.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #75
Lives for gear
 
Strut78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by africantigercow View Post
These are the best digital filters I have ever heard.

But I have some very real criticisms which, as it stands, are making me question the decision to purchase.

Criticisms:

1: The UI is not resizeable.
This is, in my opinion, a major design flaw. There isn't even a magnification option. Well there might be but see point 2:
(This crit applies to the ds1 as well but it is even more critical on something as fiddly as an EQ!)

2: There is no manual.
And in general the process of getting a softube manual is infuriating. Everything is stuck in one five hundred page pdf.

3: Soloing Bands causes a huge drop in volume

4: In M/S, Soloing a band in side plays back a summed mono signal.
(Which can be useful, but you know, sides aren't exactly known for summing well...
Plus, I EQ sides as I hear them, in the sides. Does anyone have a reason for why they do this?? Is there something i don't know about eqing sides??)

5: The 'large view' could very easily just extend upwards from the original interface.
This would double to serve as a way to see individual setting more clearly along with analyzer.

6: The only shortcut I could find (see point 2!) was to use the mouse wheel to broaden and tighten q, and double clicking a band in the large view to bypass it.
Shortcuts are incredibly useful. I don't want to have to right click and open a sub menu to solo a band and then go back to the sub menu to un-solo. I want to hold down a modifier. I almost always want to be able to hold down a modifier. Modifiers are unbelievable efficient. WHY WOULD THEY NOT USE MODIFIERS?!?!?!

7: Bypassing a band in the large view leaves a dot floating in the middle of the analyzer with no indication as to the shape of the band.
This is far more annoying than I realized it might be. A less opaque indication of the slope/function of that band would be super helpful in navigating what I am doing. This is exacerbated by point 8.

8: All bands are present, as a dot, on the analyzer regardless of whether they are in use or not.
I get that it is a 7 band eq, but i REALLY don't need have seven dots present the whole time. It makes navigating the view much more cluttered. Their appearance on the spectrum at a double click in the relevant frequency would be far cleaner. It is very rare that I use seven bands of eq on any one source (Though don't think I don't appreciate the possibility, Softube).

9: The use in Mid/Side is unbelievably clunky.
a second graphic appearing with two sets of controls marked "Mid" and "Side" would be very very useful. On the larger display the different bands could appear as different colours.

10: Have I mentioned how annoying it is to find any of the manuals for softube products???
Also, the softube Central is INFURIATING


11: Not a crit, but I would buy dedicated 1-knob-1-job controller for either of Weiss plugins in a second. Bonus points if they could make the display bigger on the controller than on the original.
Re #2 ... the separate manual for the Weiss plugins is on their site https://cdn.softube.com/storage/D303...r%20Manual.pdf
Old 4 weeks ago
  #76
DSK
Lives for gear
 
DSK's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Softube View Post
Hey, Tom from Softube here. I just want to address upgrade paths and Console 1 not recognizing the new channel strip:

All owners of separate Weiss licences have available upgrade paths to the Weiss Complete Collection. To see your upgrade price, make sure you're logged into your Softube account, and you'll find it on the Weiss Complete Collection product page. Important to note is that you will not get an upgrade price from any Volume collection. Upgrade paths work by sacrificing previous licences, and we wouldn't want to take your whole Volume licence.

About Console 1 not recognizing the new Weiss Gambit Series expansion: older versions of the Console 1 software won't recognize expansions that were released after it. As long as you're running the most recent version of the Console 1 software, you should be golden.

If you're experiencing issues with upgrade prices, the channel strip not working, or really anything else Softube-related, you can always send an email to [email protected].

Hope this helps!
/Tom
The sacrificing of the Volume collection is a convenient excuse

IMO I personally think it's about licensing deals, pricing schemes and other capital based decisions.. one of the main reasons that I didn't get the full version of Weiss and only the compressor limiter is that there is no upgrade path if you own the MM-1 Volume 1...

So even if I was ready to get the full version I felt some spite, but as a musician I reserve my right to make emotional decisions from time to time.

I'd rather pay ~100 euros for the same kind of functionality that the Compressor Limiter offers, than feeling somewhat cheated by not having a upgrade path.

With that said, what I do appreciate is that lately you have made more upgrade paths available to Volume Collection, as I do clearly remember that in the beginning you had the same kind of excuse. Now your system takes into account multiple licenses surrender for a upgrade price which is a nice touch!

So in that regard you do bend somewhat and be more fair, but you do it very slowly and very deliberately, all just to keep some of the artificial prestige that comes with pricing.

But it still feels a bit like "What? You're too poor and could only afford a Volume bundle? no upgrade path for you... "

So folks when Softube defends themselves hiding behind technicalities what they are trying to say is that, they know it isn't fair, but they have bills to pay and it makes more sense to use said technicalities to keep the perception at a nice level. That's my view at least.

This comes from someone who has ALMOST all of your plugins and modules.. is on a strict diet when it comes to what expenses I make, so trust me when I say that I have a feel for how you operate.

FWIW I do use the Weiss limiter compressor and MM-1 on almost every mix I do and it was well worth it.

Again I still don't fully like how you treat your past customers, but I can't remain unmoved by some of the more decent moves you made towards a fairer approach.

As always the market will decide.

TL:DR

+ great sounding
+ more upgrade paths
+ C1 options at a more reasonable price

- some high pricing considering it's a digital asset
- not enough/fair upgrade paths:
no upgrade path from MM-1 Volume owners to full versions
no upgrade path from Dees, Compressor Limiter, DS1 to C1 strip
Old 4 weeks ago
  #77
DSK
Lives for gear
 
DSK's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
This "price gouging" angle is such crybaby BS. Weiss has taken a huge step toward hardware obsolescence by allowing their code to be migrated to plugin form. The value of their hardware, and potential for future sales, has just tanked. And I don't think it's unfair to ask such prices for products which have earned incredible prestige. One eq is not valued the same as every other. Someone said that those complaining about the price are not the target audience and I completely agree. For many, other, lesser eqs will get the job done and they'll sleep just fine. For a certain ilk of engineer, however, this will be considered an amazing bargain and a no-brainer investment. No longer do we need to fork over a couple of tens of thousands of dollars for all this hardware -- we can get it all for a mere fraction, and the end result (the sound) will be *identical.* Not emulated... identical!

It's entirely understandable to feel that it's too much money for an eq, but your unique relationship with money doesn't in any way dictate the value of this product.
I completely agree on many many fronts, I sincerely don't believe all plugins should be $29 and become just vst/aax folder trash. I'd rather save up and get a good tool...

..but at the same time they still are digital assets and the scalability is enormous. 25 years ago when these tools were first available there was much less music being produced at a much higher cost. Things have exploded both in number of musicians as well as in mastering engineers that are interested in these kind of tools.

Otherwise we wouldn't have this kind of expensive technology being ported as a VST now at all.

The market will adjust itself.

All in all a very very VERY welcome release, considering the pedigree and the inherent quality. I used to dream 10 years ago about a Weiss compressor EQ pair.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse View Post
Yeah, fair enough. Almost. I don't think you can argue that there aren't at least reasonable questions to be asked about this. Do we really suppose that everyone else in the game cannot and has not been able to design an outstanding set of digital filters in the intervening 24 years? (I mean, the answer may be 'yes,' but you can forgive me for finding that pretty doubtful a priori. Thus I'll need to test the living crap out of this demo.)
It may just as reasonably be that one's "unique relationship" with the hardware - real or thru hearsay - is what is driving such an assumption.
It's a fair question. Maybe there are modern eqs which match this for mastering. I haven't used them all, but having used the demo of EQ1 this morning I can say that I've not heard another one quite like it, and I have a stockpile of eqs. What is clear is that it deserves top-tier prices. Now, if I don't own this I will be unhappy. Its subtlety, which some will find annoying, is where the magic lies. It repairs without showing a hint of itself, and enhances by somehow making any frequency better just by boosting it. No artifacts. I have excellent eqs and I can't (quite) say that about them.

It speaks for itself far better than we could, and since there's a 20-day demo it's best to leave it to that.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #79
Lives for gear
The support told me the channel strip plugin can only be used with the hardware. I don't like the idea that you have to buy the whole bundle that you are unable to fully use to enjoy the upgrade price.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #80
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
You've got this wrong.
Can you explain, 'cos if I have I need to delete the post.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #81
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
Can you explain, 'cos if I have I need to delete the post.
The console 1 version comes with the eq.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #82
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filterfreak's Avatar
 

This looks like the perfect companion for the Unisum compressor!

Will demo...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #83
Gear Head
 
citytape's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
Can you explain, 'cos if I have I need to delete the post.
My understanding is that if you own ds1 and eq1, you can only replace the EQ and compressor modules on other console 1 channel stripes. While Weiss Gambit for console 1 is a complete channel stripe, with Softube designed Weiss shape and drive.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #84
Gear Addict
 
vicnest's Avatar
 

My upgrade price is ridiculous good
Weiss Complete Collection (upgrade from Weiss DS1-MK3)
Total: USD 410.00
No, thanks. Hope it sounds as expansive.

At least the last product Zener upgrade price is relatively reasonable.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #85
Very expensive.

Why did I buy UAD API, Harrison, Neve, Manley, Cambridge,Pultec EQs?

Thanks Plugin Alliance, Waves, TDR, DMG Audio, Fabfilter !!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #86
This EQ indeed reacts and sounds in a very impressive way. Effortless and just plain beautiful. With this price it will be necessary to really compare to Crave and Equilibrium, but first impression is, that it will be a must buy in the end. With the voucher and upgrade it is 292 EUR, which is fair I guess.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimos Guitar View Post
This EQ indeed reacts and sounds in a very impressive way. Effortless and just plain beautiful. With this price it will be necessary to really compare to Crave and Equilibrium, but first impression is, that it will be a must buy in the end. With the voucher and upgrade it is 292 EUR, which is fair I guess.
I own the DS1 MK3 and with the intro voucher my upgrade is still 349$ (around 323€). How do you get 292€ ?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #88
Gear Nut
 
yorgos's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatsWilsonian View Post
Says it's the Weiss limiter on the product page.


So what features are missing on the c1 version?
Oh! Most. The C1 version is very simple. Still very convenient as a channel strip for the most common functions.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #89
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimos Guitar View Post
This EQ indeed reacts and sounds in a very impressive way. Effortless and just plain beautiful. With this price it will be necessary to really compare to Crave and Equilibrium, but first impression is, that it will be a must buy in the end. With the voucher and upgrade it is 292 EUR, which is fair I guess.
What upgrade and voucher are you using to get that price?
Works out at $317 here and my upgrade price with voucher is $348.50.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #90
Gear Head
 
citytape's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse View Post
Kind of sick of being cattleprodded by Softube's prices. I bought the DS-1 Mk3 on intro. It's superb. (But Omnisum may actually be better, at least on much of the material I've tried them on - for $150 intro.)
What is Omnisum?
Topic:
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