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Announcing "NCAR" Virtual Sidecar/Summing Mixer - Analog Obsession
Old 9th April 2020
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMaloogalooga View Post
I’m still not 100% sure what this is doing as opposed to putting single analog emu channel strips on individual tracks and letting the DAW handle the summing? What am I missing? What is NCAR actually adding? I.e Wouldn’t I get same effect by adding the single NCAR instance to all my tracks and routing it to a buss and let DAW handle final summing
Summing
Well just like any plugin, it’s got it’s own eq flavor and the distortion when driven sounds pretty good to me. That’s all you can really ask from any similar plugin.
Old 9th April 2020
  #122
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth House Guest View Post
Well just like any plugin, it’s got it’s own eq flavor and the distortion when driven sounds pretty good to me. That’s all you can really ask from any similar plugin.
Thanks for the reply but that's what i mean, seems a ball ache if there is no difference to just adding the single instance plugin to the separate tracks. I was excited by this plugin but then got thinking what was it actually doing, wondering if there was any better separation, 3D or what the algorithm is doing thats special. No matter though, will test further, I like the idea of summing down all my busses, will see how it sounds
Old 9th April 2020
  #123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMaloogalooga View Post
Thanks for the reply but that's what i mean, seems a ball ache if there is no difference to just adding the single instance plugin to the separate tracks. I was excited by this plugin but then got thinking what was it actually doing, wondering if there was any better separation, 3D or what the algorithm is doing thats special. No matter though, will test further, I like the idea of summing down all my busses, will see how it sounds
Like I said earlier. You don’t need summing. It only gives you extra head room. Audio in the daw is all maxed out and a summing box gives it a release. This can all be avoided. Ask any pro if summing is needed and they’ll tell you to trim your tracks, then boost the bus they’re being sent to with whatever emu you like. Same thing. You’ll see shoot outs of plugins or hardware all the time on GS. Not so many summing amp shoot outs. It’s just headroom. Now if they’ve added in some cool distortion/color options well that’s an FX tool and I can see a use for that. Summing though? You don’t have to look to far to see the pointlessness of them.
Old 9th April 2020
  #124
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth House Guest View Post
Like I said earlier. You don’t need summing. It only gives you extra head room. Audio in the daw is all maxed out and a summing box gives it a release. This can all be avoided. Ask any pro if summing is needed and they’ll tell you to trim your tracks, then boost the bus they’re being sent to with whatever emu you like. Same thing. You’ll see shoot outs of plugins or hardware all the time on GS. Not so many summing amp shoot outs. It’s just headroom. Now if they’ve added in some cool distortion/color options well that’s an FX tool and I can see a use for that. Summing though? You don’t have to look to far to see the pointlessness of them.
Great explanation thanks and sorry if I missed your earlier post. I will test my self on busses and see if it brings something worth having or not
Old 10th April 2020
  #125
Here for the gear
 

Cubase Pro , j'ai enfin compris comment faire , dans Cubase => studio => connexions audio , créer en entrée et en sortie un bus " 3rd Order Ambisonics " (pour avoir 8 in/out ) , après créer une piste groupe (3rd Order Ambisonics ) , y mettre le plugin , et là il suffit d'y envoyer vos différents bus ou pistes, et tout fonctionne parfaitement …
Old 11th April 2020
  #126
Gear Maniac
 

I've been experimenting with this in Reaper (and indeed it is really simple to set up in Reaper!). I find that the VU meters are all barely being tickled, and if I turn things up in the NCAR plugin I quickly overlead the master buss (which my stereo output is being sent to).

Is this right? Should I be aiming for levels around 0 VU in NCAR, or should I instead be happy with lower levels?
Old 11th April 2020
  #127
Gear Maniac
 

So indeed if I stuck the Hornet VU meter after this plugin, the reading is totally different to the master VU meter in NCAR.

This is probably just the choice of reference for the VU meter though? i.e. the bit of metering that I've never bothered to understand! In other words, we shouldn't be aiming for 0 VU levels in NCAR, nothing close in fact.

I still have a question though- does any saturation effect, etc, improve once the levels are higher on each channel. In other words, should I put channel volumes up on NCAR, and turn down the master output? I can't figure out the proper gain staging because I can't understand the metering.

I don't want to be critical though - this is a very awesome plugin! I particularly like the fact that you can use it as a final "stem mixing" sweetener. I have various busses routed to it, and I'm rolling off the highs on some to create more depth.
Old 11th April 2020
  #128
Gear Maniac
 
Illusionaire's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw63 View Post
I've been experimenting with this in Reaper (and indeed it is really simple to set up in Reaper!). I find that the VU meters are all barely being tickled, and if I turn things up in the NCAR plugin I quickly overlead the master buss (which my stereo output is being sent to).

Is this right? Should I be aiming for levels around 0 VU in NCAR, or should I instead be happy with lower levels?
I noticed this and I had the exact same questions.

VU meters by default are calibrated at -18dB RMS. Exceptions are still close, in the area of -12 to -20. On this particular plugin the VU is calibrated at -6dB which is very different.

Tunca could you please explain? Should we aim for your VU's zero values to get the saturation, and use an external plugin to bring the gain down again? Should we ignore them and just pass the signals through at unity gain, regardless of the VU readouts? Is it a feature that is going to be calibrated in the future?

Thanks! Not being ungrateful, I just want to know how to use it properly.
Old 11th April 2020
  #129
Lives for gear
 
TurboJets's Avatar
So far I've ignored the VU meters because even though they're barely moving (if at all), you can still hear the effect the plugin imparts sonically.

But the VU behavior is no what you expect. Not a complaint in any way, just an observation.
Old 12th April 2020
  #130
Lives for gear
 
denork's Avatar
Yes, the gauges are not working properly, I realized from the first minute, but I did not give it importance because I like to use the ears, although it would be nice if they worked correctly.
Old 13th April 2020
  #131
Deleted 3975a2c
Guest
Love the concept of this but struggling to figure out the best implementation in Ableton Live 9. BTW I bought the upgrade to 10 suite, but I really dont like some of the changes to my workflow so went back to 9. I read earlier in the thread something about Live 9 only having 4 channels and Live 10 having 8 channels of routing? Its one thing I have always disliked about Live, some of the routing.. and/or the naming of the routing. Over the years I have figured out or setup template workarounds, but anyway. Before I dive into this, can someone give me an example of proper NCAR usage in Live 9?

For example, I usually have somewhere between 40-50 tracks>8 groups>2 busses>master channel (also 2-4 return fx tracks that I automate amount on individual tracks)- in that scenario, where would I put NCAR and how would I properly setup/route it?

Thanks!
Old 13th April 2020
  #132
Lives for gear
 
denork's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrisun View Post
Love the concept of this but struggling to figure out the best implementation in Ableton Live 9. BTW I bought the upgrade to 10 suite, but I really dont like some of the changes to my workflow so went back to 9. I read earlier in the thread something about Live 9 only having 4 channels and Live 10 having 8 channels of routing? Its one thing I have always disliked about Live, some of the routing.. and/or the naming of the routing. Over the years I have figured out or setup template workarounds, but anyway. Before I dive into this, can someone give me an example of proper NCAR usage in Live 9?

For example, I usually have somewhere between 40-50 tracks>8 groups>2 busses>master channel (also 2-4 return fx tracks that I automate amount on individual tracks)- in that scenario, where would I put NCAR and how would I properly setup/route it?

Thanks!
Create an audio track and call it "premaster" load it into NCAR, now send each track you want to the "premaster", by default it will sound on channels 1/2 of NCAR, keep sending tracks, if you need more than 8, load how many NCARs need and keep sending.
Old 13th April 2020
  #133
Gear Head
For those stuggling with NCAR with their DAW, i find that the master output doesn't do nothing to the audio except gainning. So using NCARSE in groups/subgroups busses is the same. You can then mute the groups or disable the instances of NCARSE insert (link them to bypass with one click) to get the same results like NCAR
Old 13th April 2020
  #134
Deleted 3975a2c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by denork View Post
Create an audio track and call it "premaster" load it into NCAR, now send each track you want to the "premaster", by default it will sound on channels 1/2 of NCAR, keep sending tracks, if you need more than 8, load how many NCARs need and keep sending.
Hmm.. probably overthinking this, but.. so sticking with my example project, all tracks within "group 1" audio send to "premaster NCAR buss 1" (using default NCAR channels 1/2). all tracks within "group 2" audio send to "premaster NCAR buss 2" (also setup using default NCAR channels 1/2 -or 3/4?) and so on for all tracks within the 8 groups (total 8 instances of NCAR). Would I then route each of the 8 NCAR "premaster" instances to a 9th "premaster" track with one more instance of NCAR, assigning each to a different NCAR channel, and from there have my "master" NCAR giving me full control of all NCAR instances? Still

*or did you mean something totally different?
Old 19th April 2020
  #135
Here for the gear
 
horriblemind's Avatar
Is there no "Solo" button? Would be nice to have one. Also I think it'd be better to have the "bypass" button instead of the logo (cause you're not sure what it does at first), and to relocate the logo elsewhere, maybe in between master meter and output switch.

Otherwise a very nice conept! I personally prefer having everything in one window than going back-and-forth between channels and putting many instances of plugin across the tracks. It also feels more real this way, like going through a hardware summing mixer.

It's a bit time-consuming, though, to name the tracks inside the plugin after you already named them in your DAW, but I have no idea how to deal with this issue.

Thanks for the plugin! Among other similar tools this one looks the most convenient to me. Really hope it'll be further developed.
Old 19th April 2020
  #136
Lives for gear
 
AnalogObsession's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by horriblemind View Post
Is there no "Solo" button? Would be nice to have one. Also I think it'd be better to have the "bypass" button instead of the logo (cause you're not sure what it does at first), and to relocate the logo elsewhere, maybe in between master meter and output switch.

Otherwise a very nice conept! I personally prefer having everything in one window than going back-and-forth between channels and putting many instances of plugin across the tracks. It also feels more real this way, like going through a hardware summing mixer.

It's a bit time-consuming, though, to name the tracks inside the plugin after you already named them in your DAW, but I have no idea how to deal with this issue.

Thanks for the plugin! Among other similar tools this one looks the most convenient to me. Really hope it'll be further developed.
Hi,

Solo logic is too complex to implement plugin. I added mute instead solo.

And yes, re-naming is little bit time-consuming but it's best way to see which channels you routed.

Thanks.
Old 19th April 2020
  #137
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cprompt View Post
I did, and it is indeed the proof right there... proof that the only audio coming out of NCAR is on channels 1 and 2 when it's in SUM mode, which you can see in this capture - NCAR receiving 5 channels, the instance of which NCAR follows only receives the first stereo pair:

Is this happening even after setting the second one to 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, ect?
Old 20th April 2020
  #138
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw63 View Post
I've been experimenting with this in Reaper (and indeed it is really simple to set up in Reaper!). I find that the VU meters are all barely being tickled, and if I turn things up in the NCAR plugin I quickly overlead the master buss (which my stereo output is being sent to).

Is this right? Should I be aiming for levels around 0 VU in NCAR, or should I instead be happy with lower levels?
Hey I just got Reaper, and I'm trying to learn it. I have a track that has multiple tracks that I just imported, but I have no audio interface setup. Can you tell me how I would set this up? I'm primarily a logic user so I've got a learning curve.
Old 20th April 2020
  #139
Gear Addict
 
candyflip's Avatar
Is this similar concept to the Airwindows Console plugins?
Old 21st April 2020
  #140
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogObsession View Post
Hi,

Solo logic is too complex to implement plugin. I added mute instead solo.

And yes, re-naming is little bit time-consuming but it's best way to see which channels you routed.

Thanks.
Hey man i was browsing ebay today and i found someone selling your plugins. I am not sure if it's legitimate or you don't know, but i thought i would let you know about it. Sorry if i am wrong but it looked a bit fishy if you know what i mean.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AU-VST-EQ...sAAOSwsEtemJFT
Attached Thumbnails
Announcing "NCAR"  Virtual Sidecar/Summing Mixer - Analog Obsession-capture.jpg  
Old 21st April 2020
  #141
Lives for gear
 
AnalogObsession's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funksta View Post
Hey man i was browsing ebay today and i found someone selling your plugins. I am not sure if it's legitimate or you don't know, but i thought i would let you know about it. Sorry if i am wrong but it looked a bit fishy if you know what i mean.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AU-VST-EQ...sAAOSwsEtemJFT
Hmm...

Thanks for warning.

I will contact...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #142
Gear Maniac
 
bal5000's Avatar
 

Hi,

this seems like a superb plugin, but i get quite high cpu hit in Ableton Live 10.1.6 on Windows 7 (the meter goes up around 30-40 percent).
my computer is fairly old but it is able to handle plugins quite well (like diva and such)
am i doing something wrong here? or that is how it is?

thank you and congratulations on this plugin!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #143
Lives for gear
 
patrick81's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funksta View Post
Hey man i was browsing ebay today and i found someone selling your plugins. I am not sure if it's legitimate or you don't know, but i thought i would let you know about it. Sorry if i am wrong but it looked a bit fishy if you know what i mean.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AU-VST-EQ...sAAOSwsEtemJFT
That's bad. someone reselling free plugin or I image cracked one as well. oh my. the stupidity
Old 2 weeks ago
  #144
Gear Maniac
 

HI, how /where do you get the harmonic colour from all your plugins? Do you happen to have all outboard gear to clone/calculate these?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #145
Lives for gear
 

I just esha say tunica keep up the good work. You really turned your company and brand around 10 fold
Old 1 week ago
  #146
Lives for gear
 
AnalogObsession's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by makasi View Post
HI, how /where do you get the harmonic colour from all your plugins? Do you happen to have all outboard gear to clone/calculate these?
Hi,

No, i have no them. I am using circuits to design them. Also, using spice to analyse circuits an re-model.
Old 2 days ago
  #147
Gear Head
For those interested, i've found a solution to run NCAR in pro tools as a summing mixer. It's funny how sometimes we don't investigate to know better the tools we already have!
So to do it i use DDmf SendIt module witch come with metaplugin: insert on the tracks we want to send to NCAR, metaplugin with SendIt modules. Link the audio input with SendIt inputs, no need to connect the outputs for the moment (so no peakmeters for these tracks). The channels in SendIt (Send mode) must be different for each group of tracks. Then on the master track were we have NCAR on metaplugin, load SendIt instances and select receive mode and match the corresponding channels from the SenIt (Send) modules. Then Links Their outputs on the differents inputs on NCAR,Then you got it! (i assume you have linked the output 1-2 of NCAR to the outputs of metaplugin).

Notes: When i bypass or move the metaplugin insert to another slot from the tracks sending their audio, sometimes the track lose the synchronisation with rest of the project or is heard only on one side (left or right) (Bug!!??). Simply select all the track with metaplugin then desactivate and reactivate metaplugin (ctrl+win+alt+shift+click), then all the tracks will be in sync again. Also keep in mind that you're sending audio before the metaplugin insert, so if you pan that track it won't be taken into account in NCAR. So using metaplugin on Groups busses is much better after you've done all your panning on the individuals tracks.
Now if you link the output of the SendIt modules with the output of metaplugin on the tracks sending audio and get "PassTru" ticked, the audio will pass trough the channel and you w'll have a duplicated signal. So if you need a visual (peakmeter) you can do that and route the audio to a master track that's muted. Here is a pic of the test i've done with only 4 stereo tracks: on the left one sending track, on the rigth, the receiving master track. The automatic labeling on SendIt is wrong but all works fine. Hope that helps. This should also work with the other DAWS
Attached Thumbnails
Announcing "NCAR"  Virtual Sidecar/Summing Mixer - Analog Obsession-capture-ncar-pro-tools.jpg  
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