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Massenburg MDWEQ v6 is out
Old 2 days ago
  #361
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaugruen7 View Post
You did a double blind?

Between what?
Mdw and stock digi eq3. Q values and Freq points (minutely) different which has no bearing in actual use. A practical benefit is the iso function but, otherwise, used as a tool you will achieve exactly the same result as it NULLS!

I abx a lot. Been in the game long enough not to trust the psychological effects of shiny new gear and confirmation bias, especially with a high price tag and 'name' on it.

Totally understand people's right to delude themselves, but abx testing is eye, if not ear, opening

Peace
Old 2 days ago
  #362
Lives for gear
 
blaugruen7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
Mdw and stock digi eq3. Q values and Freq points (minutely) different which has no bearing in actual use. A practical benefit is the iso function but, otherwise, used as a tool you will achieve exactly the same result as it NULLS!

I abx a lot. Been in the game long enough not to trust the psychological effects of shiny new gear and confirmation bias, especially with a high price tag and 'name' on it.

Totally understand people's right to delude themselves, but abx testing is eye, if not ear, opening

Peace
Very cool.

I.xome Always Back to Farbfilter Q3.

Found the linear Phase Mode after a year.... Oh my
Old 2 days ago
  #363
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
Mdw and stock digi eq3. Q values and Freq points (minutely) different which has no bearing in actual use. A practical benefit is the iso function but, otherwise, used as a tool you will achieve exactly the same result as it NULLS!

I abx a lot. Been in the game long enough not to trust the psychological effects of shiny new gear and confirmation bias, especially with a high price tag and 'name' on it.

Totally understand people's right to delude themselves, but abx testing is eye, if not ear, opening

Peace
Shiny near gear does indeed attract undeserved attention, but far more prevalent on GS are false claims. I'm open to the idea that the stock eq *might* null with MDW, but unless there's proof then this claim falls into that category of unsubstantiated claims. Unfortunately, anyone who thinks that all eqs are the same hasn't actually been in the game long enough to understand what makes an eq tick. A half hour of proper deep research puts that to bed with certainty.
Old 2 days ago
  #364
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Shiny near gear does indeed attract undeserved attention, but far more prevalent on GS are false claims. I'm open to the idea that the stock eq *might* null with MDW, but unless there's proof then this claim falls into that category of unsubstantiated claims. Unfortunately, anyone who thinks that all eqs are the same hasn't actually been in the game long enough to understand what makes an eq tick. A half hour of proper deep research puts that to bed with certainty.

The beauty of this is that it's empirical.

Get in touch with MDW for a demo. As mentioned before, the Q values are not the same and the frequency points differ by very, very small amounts, but it will null with stock Digi EQ3 to -70db. In real-world use, this is negligible.

Are you really confident you could reliably pick out a difference in abx testing?

Old 1 day ago
  #365
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
The beauty of this is that it's empirical.

Get in touch with MDW for a demo. As mentioned before, the Q values are not the same and the frequency points differ by very, very small amounts, but it will null with stock Digi EQ3 to -70db. In real-world use, this is negligible.

Are you really confident you could reliably pick out a difference in abx testing?

If you've gotten the stock eq to null, why not post the settings of both MDW and the stock eq? It's not up to any of us to prove your claim. I could very easily state that MDW is the best reverb I've ever used, and after doing so there would be a strong chance that some inquisitive mind would want to hear my example. Should they download the demo and figure out how established *MY* claim? Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Regarding abx testing, that's not how I shop for and implement new products. But if you're saying that MDW is an absolute waste of money -- that it seems great to people because they simply don't know how to properly use stock eqs -- then I, and in fact all of us, would like some proof. Many great engineers, with zero financial interest in MDW, have offered compliments to this plugin. As I said, I could be convinced that they don't know what they're talking about, but since you're the one going against the grain here it's on you to prove. Otherwise, the accepted reality is that eqs, even digital eqs, vary to large degrees.
Old 1 day ago
  #366
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
If you've gotten the stock eq to null, why not post the settings of both MDW and the stock eq? It's not up to any of us to prove your claim. I could very easily state that MDW is the best reverb I've ever used, and after doing so there would be a strong chance that some inquisitive mind would want to hear my example. Should they download the demo and figure out how established *MY* claim? Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Regarding abx testing, that's not how I shop for and implement new products. But if you're saying that MDW is an absolute waste of money -- that it seems great to people because they simply don't know how to properly use stock eqs -- then I, and in fact all of us, would like some proof. Many great engineers, with zero financial interest in MDW, have offered compliments to this plugin. As I said, I could be convinced that they don't know what they're talking about, but since you're the one going against the grain here it's on you to prove. Otherwise, the accepted reality is that eqs, even digital eqs, vary to large degrees.
But I have not asked anyone to prove my claim; I have no interest if you don't believe me. I am merely presenting a statement of empirical fact.

Yes, you may say that "MDW is the best reverb [SIC] that you have ever used". But could you really pick this MDW EQ out over Digi EQ3in a double-blind test? I would be very, very surprised.

ABX testing, in the correct context, is essential. But, again, if you don't want to and if you are happy to live in ignorance that is your prerogative.Good luck to you. I don't like wasting money.

In this context, where an expensive product with specious marketing claims that, hypothetically, offers no more than a free product, it makes good sense to abx test. I concede that the iso function is useful. But not worth the $ for me. I am taking the money I would have spent on this and buying another CAPI product - the LC25

Btw. The earth has always been, and remains, an oblate spheroid.
Old 22 hours ago
  #367
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
I am merely presenting a statement of empirical fact.
Typically, when a claim is made, some degree of proof is provided. You're 100% against doing so (I'm guessing it's because you can't), and because your claim goes against conventional wisdom it will be considered false until you can prove it to be true. This is how it works. The fact that you don't care if we believe you is a great benefit to you, because few here will believe the claim until we can see/hear it.

But enough of this. It's become obvious that it's no more than a feeble attempt to invalidate the price of MDW (and probably boutique tools in general) for the sake of one person's conscience. As they say, put up or shut up.
Old 22 hours ago
  #368
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaugruen7 View Post
Very cool.

I.xome Always Back to Farbfilter Q3.

Found the linear Phase Mode after a year.... Oh my
I have to admit... we were a little late to that party, too. It added so much latency during our first tests that we moved on almost immediately and rarely returned. But after a closer listen it's tough to use anything else. There are, of course, instances when you don't want LP mode, and we still audition modes for that reason. LP typically wins though.
Old 13 hours ago
  #369
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
This is how it works
Sigh. No. It, absolutely, is not.

I have no burden to prove anything. I am reporting a finding and inviting others to try out what I have found (FREE DEMO!) before committing to spending a not inconsiderable amount of money.

As they say, shut up. Stop trolling me or seek medication.
Old 11 hours ago
  #370
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
The beauty of this is that it's empirical.

Get in touch with MDW for a demo. As mentioned before, the Q values are not the same and the frequency points differ by very, very small amounts, but it will null with stock Digi EQ3 to -70db. In real-world use, this is negligible.

Are you really confident you could reliably pick out a difference in abx testing?

How would this be nulling if the values are not the same?

You are just truing to null it for the sale of nulling it even if the parameters are different.
Old 10 hours ago
  #371
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy View Post
How would this be nulling if the values are not the same?

You are just truing to null it for the sale of nulling it even if the parameters are different.
My test was to see if there is any qualitative difference between a product that, hypothetically, will achieve the same result. The most efficient way to do this is to null. A -70db difference is negligible in real world use. Happy to provide an ABX files if you want to stake your reputation.

Must say I'm amazed at such dogged resistance to science by fellow 'engineers'.

Once again, all I'm doing is stating what I have found. You are entitled to ignore or try for yourself. It is easy and free!
Old 9 hours ago
  #372
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
My test was to see if there is any qualitative difference between a product that, hypothetically, will achieve the same result. The most efficient way to do this is to null. A -70db difference is negligible in real world use. Happy to provide an ABX files if you want to stake your reputation.

Must say I'm amazed at such dogged resistance to science by fellow 'engineers'.

Once again, all I'm doing is stating what I have found. You are entitled to ignore or try for yourself. It is easy and free!
Good for you for nullling it. I don't know why you keep saying we are resisting to science.

My statement is: How could you abx/nulling it with different values?

You're doing it just for trying to achieve the same result?

I don't use MDW and I don't use digieq3.

I was happy doing the test earlier in this thread and found that the ProQ3 though berated agains the current offering was what people like.
Old 8 hours ago
  #373
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy View Post
My statement is: How could you abx/nulling it with different values?

You're doing it just for trying to achieve the same result?

So I will spell it out.

Take two aux sends apply the same source to both. Put a Digi eq3 plug on one andflip the phase. Put an MDW on the other. Pick a setting on the MDW apply the same to the Digi3 and minutely adjust q value by .01+ and Freq point by .01+ hz Sum the result. Somewhere down in the noise floor is the difference=negligible.

Now take a bounce of both sides (not phase reversed now) . If you like, put exactly the same q and Freq settings. Put in abx testing software. Be honest with yourself, can you hear a difference. I bet you can't. Now see if you can pick each one out reliably. I bet you can't. Voila, science.

Of course, nobody uses a tool like this. In the real world they an adjustable tool used to achieve a desired result. This test shows that you can achieve the same result. Quantitatively they are different but to such a degree that it is insignificant. Qualitatively they are not.
Old 7 hours ago
  #374
Lives for gear
 
Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
It is awesome and congratulations for you for not buying the MDW and sticking to DigiEQ3.

I am sure you can achieve so much with stock plugins.

Individual purchasing decision though is very subjective. There are reasons why I keep going to the same plugins in my workflow. I still use EQ1 from time to time. Just to flip/check phase on drums multitrack. Eq'ing I prefer using ProQ3 for workflow and speed.

YMMV.
Old 7 hours ago
  #375
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy View Post
It is awesome and congratulations for you for not buying the MDW and sticking to DigiEQ3.

I am sure you can achieve so much with stock plugins.

Individual purchasing decision though is very subjective. There are reasons why I keep going to the same plugins in my workflow. I still use EQ1 from time to time. Just to flip/check phase on drums multitrack. Eq'ing I prefer using ProQ3 for workflow and speed.

YMMV.
Can I make it clear that I did not ever say that all eq plugs sound the same.

Use whatever you like. Who cares? I also like the functionality of Q3. Not sure of your point.
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