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Fuse Audio Labs releases the VPRE-2C
Old 10th February 2020
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggo View Post
Two factors which likely apply: age of listener and hearing damage of listener.

As we age and our upper frequency limit becomes lower, we apparently become more sensitive to distortion in the vicinity of the roll off. In the bad old days of low-res hyper-compressed (and, often, clipping) MP3s, this was sometimes mentioned during discussions about older listeners finding those MP3s much more objectionable than young people listening to the same MP3s.

Ditto for people with hearing damage, which applies to anyone who has been to lots of amplified gigs or listened to loud playback for too long. (For example, excessive headphone/earbud volume is a common cause of hearing damage nowadays). Hard to predict the resulting changes in sensitivity to distortion because the damage varies so much, but it's possibly a factor.

There must be other reasons of course, including personal taste (which in some cases would be influenced by one or both of the above two factors)
If you ask me, your first example is actually a proof of the familiarity argument I made. Older listeners were not yet "intoxicated" by mp3 compression and therefore demanded high quality CD sound. Young people didn't know anything else from the beginning and became so accustomed to it, that they demanded that trashy mp3 sound at some later point. This is not something to fact check, but I read a few articles at the time talking about that and it makes sense to me.

Hearing damage is also an interesting point. When I started to Dj, I had a latin house record with a disgustingly distorted high frequency break on it. Whenever I listened to that record, I had to cover my ears and stopped after a few more sessions. Hearing damage begins in the higher frequencies, saturation/distorsion we are applying to our music, seems to be not that high pitched. Of course, it's a matter of material, but I don't think it's a big factor in the equation.
Old 10th February 2020
  #122
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M Albazy's Avatar
TBH instead of the tube picture, I would much prefer some sort of THD meter/indicator something like Softube Tape Vu-style or Arousor LED meter.
Old 10th February 2020
  #123
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Lesha's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy View Post
TBH instead of the tube picture, I would much prefer some sort of THD meter/indicator something like Softube Tape Vu-style or Arousor LED meter.
Btw, if you don't like the tubes or need more screen space, you can collapse the upper part of the GUI by positioning the cursor above its upper left corner and clicking on the arrows, as pictured below.

Old 11th February 2020
  #124
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endor View Post
I feel the same way concerning the buss duties. I always want to push it and then back it off. Maybe I should explore more the Tone Knob...

Anyway, there's definitely a great potential with this plugin. Fuse Audio always comes up with a great new tool to use. Thanks Ray !
For stereo bus duties you could try driving it pretty hard until you hear obvious distortion and then drop the wet/dry mix back from 100% wet until the obvious distortion is gone. You will still get the warmth and detail etc that the tubes give but some dry back in the mix will let transients poke through a bit more, plus the obvious distortion will be reduced.
The boost control is a quick way to see if another 8db of drive gives you a sound you like.
Depends on what material you’re running through it too.
The suggestion I’m making assumes there is bass, drums etc - a full sound.
In the end I like settings that are not super obvious but are doing enough to be instantly missed if I bypass it.

Last edited by Beatworld; 11th February 2020 at 02:17 AM.. Reason: typo, clarity
Old 11th February 2020
  #125
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuseaudiolabs View Post
Using the Hammerstein analysis (I think PD has that, too) should give you a better idea of what’s happening. It essentially shows you the frequency response of each individual harmonic. The linear frequency response - well, that’s one way to look at it - is a superimposition of that.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Ray
Yes this did help, thanks very much Ray (and Kisame).
The first order frequency response for Flat shows the true picture.
Interesting to see what is going on with each harmonic too.
Haven't used the Hammerstein view in PD before.
Always happy to learn something, even with the so very uncool PD


Last edited by Beatworld; 11th February 2020 at 02:07 AM.. Reason: clarity
Old 11th February 2020
  #126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld View Post
For stereo bus duties you could try driving it pretty hard until you hear obvious distortion and then drop the wet/dry mix back from 100% wet until the obvious distortion is gone. You will still get the warmth and detail etc that the tubes give but some dry back in the mix will let transients poke through a bit more, plus the obvious distortion will be reduced.
The boost control is a quick way to see if another 8db of drive gives you a sound you like.
Depends on what material you’re running through it too.
The suggestion I’m making assumes there is bass, drums etc - a full sound.
In the end I like settings that are not super obvious but are doing enough to be instantly missed if I bypass it.
Thanks for the suggestions ! I'll try that !
Old 11th February 2020
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Guy View Post
If you ask me, your first example is actually a proof of the familiarity argument I made. Older listeners were not yet "intoxicated" by mp3 compression and therefore demanded high quality CD sound.
No, I was referring to something specific i.e. actual distortion, detected by some listeners but not others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Guy View Post
Young people didn't know anything else from the beginning and became so accustomed to it, that they demanded that trashy mp3 sound at some later point. This is not something to fact check, but I read a few articles at the time talking about that and it makes sense to me.

Hearing damage is also an interesting point. When I started to Dj, I had a latin house record with a disgustingly distorted high frequency break on it. Whenever I listened to that record, I had to cover my ears and stopped after a few more sessions. Hearing damage begins in the higher frequencies, saturation/distortion we are applying to our music, seems to be not that high pitched. Of course, it's a matter of material, but I don't think it's a big factor in the equation.
Of course it's (often) high pitched - saturation has harmonics all the way to Nyquist, with audibility depending on the filtering used by the algorithm. Hearing damage can occur at lower frequencies - the band-specific hairs which get damaged are ALL vulnerable to damage.

That said, I'm specifically referring to edgy saturation which some listeners find more objectionable than others. Data exists to indicate some of those listeners may be more vulnerable to finding the distortion annoying and more noticeable than other listeners. Some of that data indicates damaged hearing may be one of the reasons. This is due to resonances at the corners of the damaged (notched or rolled off) frequencies. I don't think it's conclusive, but it is considered a valid possibility by people who know a lot more about it than me.

I don't have the data handy, but Bob Ohlsson knows a lot about this idea if he's around. I've read lots of discussions about it between guys like Bob, JJ and Bob Katz. I don't have time at the moment to hunt it down, but will do it sometime next week if no one else chimes in.
Old 11th February 2020
  #128
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An example: a musician friend of mine has a 70dB notch at 4kHz due to using a particular drill in underground mining (from the days before everyone had really good noise attentuators in ears or within headphones) He is very sensitive to harshness between 1 or 2kHz and 6 or 7kHz.
Old 11th February 2020
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggo View Post
An example: a musician friend of mine has a 70dB notch at 4kHz due to using a particular drill in underground mining (from the days before everyone had really good noise attentuators in ears or within headphones) He is very sensitive to harshness between 1 or 2kHz and 6 or 7kHz.
I totally get it. You're talking Heinrich Hertz and I'm talking Iwan Pawlow. Both totally valid and dependent of each other in the exploration of distorsion and perception. If I would serve you the same chili with rice for 30 years and you love it - it would surly be one of your favourite dishes, regardless of your slowly changing taste buds. Maybe you'd think it changed in taste a little bit over the years (even though it stayed the same), but you would always take it over something else.

That's why people take the familiar distorsion over anything else. It's unlikely that a habit of 30 years, connected to a ton of positive emotions, changes as the person gets older. It's possible and it surely happens, but it's also highly unlikely in my book.

To finally return somewhat back to topic. I demo'ed all the 73's I had on my list today. I threw the fuse pre in for good measure and it lost gracefully, but totally. I'm buying this, but I will always prefer the Noiseash 31102 as it sounds like the Burnley, if it wants to, but can do so much more, if you want it to.
Old 12th February 2020
  #130
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[QUOTE=Simple Guy;14526492]I totally get it. You're talking Heinrich Hertz and I'm talking Iwan Pawlow.

Actually, I'm talking about the human auditory system and what happens when it's damaged or losing bandwidth due to age. But sure, I didnt mean to go so far off topic in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Guy View Post
To finally return somewhat back to topic.
No worries

And VPRE-2C sounds fantastic!
Old 12th February 2020
  #131
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
Ray , would consider adding an option to get M/S on your stuff , i m so used to the a ilitybto handle this way , specially with mordern production that i do think your stuff desreves this ....

2 last dayz mixing 2 songs and 80 of the time it was karakter because of this ...
Old 12th February 2020
  #132
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M Albazy's Avatar
Yes that's a very good feature request, it's very useful specially on buses. I use PA Elysia Karacter for the same reason.
Old 12th February 2020
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy View Post
Yes that's a very good feature request, it's very useful specially on buses. I use PA Elysia Karacter for the same reason.
Use Voxengo MSED (free) and make any of your favorite plugin M/S compatible.

If it uses too much inserts, use it in BlueCat Patchwork if you have it so it only takes 1 insert
Old 12th February 2020
  #134
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M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelieR View Post
Use Voxengo MSED (free) and make any of your favorite plugin M/S compatible.

If it uses too much inserts, use it in BlueCat Patchwork if you have it so it only takes 1 insert
I have done it before .. but tbh too lazy to work that way also usually I have 1 or 2 working days max to deliver a completed mix.
Old 13th February 2020
  #135
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HomeStudioToday's Avatar
 

I just published a review of VPRE-2C. I was a big fan. Love the warmth and the breakup.

Check out the review here:

https://homestudiotoday.com/fuse-aud...pre-2c-review/

Cheers!
Old 13th February 2020
  #136
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fuseaudiolabs's Avatar
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeStudioToday View Post
I just published a review of VPRE-2C. I was a big fan. Love the warmth and the breakup.

Check out the review here:

https://homestudiotoday.com/fuse-aud...pre-2c-review/

Cheers!
Thanks for the review, HomeStudioToday! Nice one.

As far as the tone control goes: Yes, it is designed to be fairly subtle, the objective with the VPRE-2C was to have something that's more controlled and delicate, rather than "in your face".

Try using it on sources that have plenty of low end energy and pay attention to what happens in the < 150Hz range, it'll become more obvious if you know what to listen for

Best,
Ray
Old 13th February 2020
  #137
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HomeStudioToday's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuseaudiolabs View Post
Thanks for the review, HomeStudioToday! Nice one.

As far as the tone control goes: Yes, it is designed to be fairly subtle, the objective with the VPRE-2C was to have something that's more controlled and delicate, rather than "in your face".

Try using it on sources that have plenty of low end energy and pay attention to what happens in the < 150Hz range, it'll become more obvious if you know what to listen for

Best,
Ray
Thanks for the feedback, Ray! As the review stands I didn't take any points off for the tone control - in fact, in my conclusion, I said though it was "a bit subtle for my taste, subtle does not equal bad." I'll take another look at it on a low-end track and reconsider the language I used in the tone control section based on what I hear. Again, thanks for the feedback!
Old 13th February 2020
  #138
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Interesting review. To me, at the default settings, VPRE-2C is immediately apparent i.e. not subtle, but not overcooked or hyped.

I think the Tone controls make a bigger difference when you increase the gain. That's probably by design in the original unit.
Old 14th February 2020
  #139
For vocals, I'm running the VPRE-2C into a Pulsar Smasher 1176, very slightly, then into a Black Rooster VLA-2A and it is a beautiful thing...
the VPRE-2C wraps around the voice with a wonderful, warm bunch of harmonics...
Thanks very much Ray!
Old 14th February 2020
  #140
Gear Addict
 

What is the main difference to the VPRE-562A for you? I think the VPRE-562A sounds more colored from the frequency spectrum (can be good or bad) and can smash the signal a bit more brutal, rounding more transients into noise distortion on drums.

VPRE-2C sounds more neutral in general (which can be a good or bad thing) and seems to reduce the bass a bit from the volume, while still adding nice distortion, I like to use a small eq bump after it because of this.

I'm currently demoing the VPRE-2C and think it's a great plugin, but since I have so much plugins already I try to buy only must haves. They are definitely different but also similar at the same time. Any thoughts? Not decided in this regard so far. It's a tough life as a gearslut
Old 14th February 2020
  #141
Well, I love the VPRE-2C on vocals... and although I have and like the other, I rarely use it... seems to be better suited for bass or instruments for me...
the VPRE-2C just has a rich vintage quality that is very pleasing...
like I said above, I run the mic into the VPRE-2C, then a new plugin, the PULSAR SMASHER 1176, just barely hitting it, then into a BR VLA-2A, then a WAVES 550A for a bit of eq and that sounds very good indeed
Old 14th February 2020
  #142
Gear Addict
 

I forgot one thing, the VPRE-2C auto gain compensation is really good and helpful. The 562 doesn't have it so far.
Old 14th February 2020
  #143
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alibling's Avatar
 

sounds really great! will buy it now ! another great release from Fuse !
Old 15th February 2020
  #144
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fuseaudiolabs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alibling View Post
sounds really great! will buy it now ! another great release from Fuse !
Thanks, alibling!
Old 16th February 2020
  #145
Gear Addict
 

Hardly heard sound of this plugin but I am missing the sound without it .
Old 19th February 2020
  #146
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hollohe's Avatar
 

Can't say enough good things about the weight and presence this plugin adds. Wonderful job on this.
Old 20th February 2020
  #147
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mljung's Avatar
It's even appreciated by dogs - I think I have to listen again

::
Mads
Old 20th February 2020
  #148
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fuseaudiolabs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
It's even appreciated by dogs - I think I have to listen again

::
Mads
Old 20th February 2020
  #149
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fuseaudiolabs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollohe View Post
Can't say enough good things about the weight and presence this plugin adds. Wonderful job on this.
Thanks, hollohe. Glad you're enjoying it
Old 20th February 2020
  #150
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b0se's Avatar
Ray - ever thought of releasing a channel strip? You have all the ingredients!



Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
It's even appreciated by dogs - I think I have to listen again

::
Mads
Haha! Enjoyed that, cheers :¬)
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