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Acustica Audio releases Scarlet4: The mastering EQ that rules them all
Old 4 weeks ago
  #301
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plexus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorock View Post
I've demo'd this plugin a fair bit including the updated version. Being that I own DMG Equilibrium, and a few UAD EQs I challenged myself to try and get more out of what I already have (never a bad principle). Realizing that Equilibrium has the Sontec 250 curves in it, and when on analog mode with a Square window shape and up around 32/64k samples (peaks/shelves parallel) it's not only indistinguishable but fully negates adding the Scarlett to my toolbox (in my own personal experience). The Acustica stuff is nice, but Equilibrium continues to reveal its value time and time again when compared to other plugs!
Until you run them both through plugin doctor and see you can't replicate the Scarlet curves with Equilibrium. Close but not exact. Plus Scarlet is a different kind of UX which can have an impact on how it's used. You also don't get the preamp with Equilibrium. Nor the sampled curves from the hardware of both a stock and modified-for-more-linear-band-gain-interaction. I still think Scarlet4 is worth it even if you have Equilibrium. I suppose a track test would be useful. I'm ok with not comparing the sound quality because Scarlet4 brings enough of a difference to the table it's not that redundant to Equilibrium, which is a A+ EQ itself!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #302
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AcusticaCM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray View Post
not mention to their customers about the changes in input level calibration, the issues at 48kHz with the HF roll off is unacceptable business practice if they're trying to appeal to the pro community.

They really need to start listening to the feedback given here by pro engineers and take action instead of taking offence and coming back with disrespectful quips and ridiculous excuses (mostly in the FB group). Often the attitude from Acustica management comes across as condescending and arrogant which is really disappointing considering the potential of their products. I've also been hearing and measuring things and reporting issues but honestly even the responses from support after submitting a ticket leaves me baffled and concerned.

Bottom line, either you give up or the end user has to do due diligence in testing the product thoroughly (private beta testing) to ensure it's up to the task for professional use. If you don't, it can really be to the detriment of your work.
Hi Matt, I think the recent updates addressed many of the requests and feedback that has been given here. As you might know, early-access discount pricings are introductory, time-limited discount periods during which the plugin may be subject to further refinements and minor updates/bug fixes will be available inside Aquarius under the 'Updates' section.
Also, as far as I know, 48hz sample pack is not available yet, it will be soon.

Leaving that aside, your feedback, as well as all the user's feedback, is always welcome. I take notes, send emails or even open tickets myself when I think something is worth reporting or might be improved. As many users here know, my inbox is always open and I reply to all.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #303
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MattGray's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcusticaCM View Post
Hi Matt, I think the recent updates addressed many of the requests and feedback that has been given here. As you might know, early-access discount pricings are introductory, time-limited discount periods during which the plugin may be subject to further refinements and minor updates/bug fixes will be available inside Aquarius under the 'Updates' section.
The recent update has addressed the THD and input gain but not the HF roll off when using 48kHz. The discounted introductory price is certainly appreciated but I would still expect a very thorough beta testing prior to public release.

Quote:
Also, as far as I know, 48hz sample pack is not available yet, it will be soon.
I was told 1 - 3 months which seems like a crazy long wait when there is such a problem to be fixed with the HF. I can't use it reliably on any 48kHz projects which in Australia is quite a lot.

Quote:
Leaving that aside, your feedback, as well as all the user's feedback, is always welcome. I take notes, send emails or even open tickets myself when I think something is worth reporting or might be improved. As many users here know, my inbox is always open and I reply to all.
Appreciated! Thanks for the reply.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #304
Company Rep
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray View Post

Appreciated! Thanks for the reply.
You're more than welcome!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray View Post
The recent update has addressed the THD and input gain but not the HF roll off when using 48kHz.
@ Acustica Audio :
Old 4 weeks ago
  #306
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zaphod's Avatar
It will be released later, as usually
Several simple products feature additional packs immediately, several ones never, and several ones after the presale period. This is not because a mistake, this is our typical release path.

Last edited by zaphod; 4 weeks ago at 04:07 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #307
Company Rep
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Exclamation Scarlet Update

New Scarlet Update N000 - 08 Nov 2019 - Available for download on Aquarius
Old 4 weeks ago
  #308
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Benj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcusticaCM View Post
New Scarlet Update N000 - 08 Nov 2019 - Available for download on Aquarius
What is in the update?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #309
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray View Post
To not mention to their customers about the changes in input level calibration, the issues at 48kHz with the HF roll off is unacceptable business practice if they're trying to appeal to the pro community.
About the sample rate issues:
I´ve noticed that sometimes, when 48-88 sample packs are not yet available and there is a problem with frequencies behaving strange in 48-88 sessions, it may be due to the plugin not having time to do a correct sample rate change when loading the samples. It´s like loading a 44 or 96 file in a 48 session without doing src... the lenght and pitch would be affected.

I posted this some weeks ago:

Acustica Audio releases Navy2: the MODERN DREAMWARE ANTHOLOGY.

Check if increasing the conversion parameter helps you.

Of course, once the 48-88 sample packs are released, this "fix" is useless.



About the gain calibration... I haven´t seen clear documentation of which pugins have this new calibration, or about how to deal with saturated meters when driving the input to get results as in with previous standards... I´ve asked some questions is the other thread (twice), haven´t got any answers. Maybe I´ll try to ask on a mail.

Hope this helps.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #310
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj View Post
What is in the update?
Other AI presets
About gain calibration just look for my previous posts
Old 4 weeks ago
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Other AI presets
About gain calibration just look for my previous posts
are the broken Freq [3 of them] in the next fix ?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #312
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc23 View Post
About the sample rate issues:

I posted this some weeks ago:

Acustica Audio releases Navy2: the MODERN DREAMWARE ANTHOLOGY.

Check if increasing the conversion parameter helps you.

Of course, once the 48-88 sample packs are released, this "fix" is useless.

Hope this helps.
This fix can solve if the frequency response is shifted, because the 96 vectors are loaded but not converted properly, but it still suffers from the HF rolloff if the vectors have small discrepancies after conversion. I raised a ticket about this and the response is that they are investigating the core tech that converts the vectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
It will be released later, as usually
Several simple products feature additional packs immediately, several ones never, and several ones after the presale period. This is not because a mistake, this is our typical release path.
This worries me because there is no explanation of whether a product will be accurately supported in 48kHz sessions or whether they will be excluded from 48 vectors. The product pages, launch posts or manuals rarely mention supported sample rates. The trials don't show whether a product works at 48, as the trial won't have the 48 packs even if the commercial product does.

Currently Cream2 has no 48/88 after 10 months, Gold2 is still waiting after 11 months (despite being promised in September last year in your product launch post here), Aquamarine4 (with 48/88 support mentioned in the manual) is still waiting after 7 months, Big Ceil after 6 months. You have previously said that if we want accuracy, we should wait for 48/88 packs, but now some products won't get those? Can we know which products won't get 48 packs in the launch announcement so we can avoid them?

48kHz support is not an optional extra for professional mixing. Some jobs will be at 44.1, some will be at 48, some will be at 96. 48 is incredibly common. I don't always have the luxury of choosing a sample rate because often the band will send their recording to me.

I personally hope that every commercial product with a preamp or EQ will have 48 packs for an accurate frequency response, because I can't imagine working without these fantastic tools.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #313
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
It will be released later, as usually
Several simple products feature additional packs immediately, several ones never, and several ones after the presale period. This is not because a mistake, this is our typical release path.
Is there any downside to say setting the DAW to 44.1 kHz to downconvert in real time from 48 kHz or to 96 kHz to upconvert from 88.2 kHz? A little more CPU power is used but for Acqua plugins would DAW sample rate conversion be OK to do?

I have been doing it that way whenever 48/88.2 packs aren't available and I can't hear any problems.

The previous post to mine is second'd. 48 kHz is the defacto broadcast standard and it's very typical with Bluray and other video releases. 88.2 is something rarely seen but 44.1/48 kHz are a lot more common than 96/192 kHz. Rarely (less than 10% of the time) am I sent 96 kHz files, only those I record at my studio. It's because of Acustica plugins that I record at 96 because that's their native gear sampling rate.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #314
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
Is there any downside to say setting the DAW to 44.1 kHz to downconvert in real time from 48 kHz or to 96 kHz to upconvert from 88.2 kHz? A little more CPU power is used but for Acqua plugins would DAW sample rate conversion be OK to do?
If the DAW you're using has that feature, the only concern I would mention is making sure the frequency response is what you expect - if the DAW is upsampling in real time (rather than the recording being upsampled before mixing), it might still be reporting 48 to the plugin. Maybe the other concern would be how the upsampling affects your transients, and HF phase response, depending on the upsampling algo. In ProTools, there is no such option, only offline sample rate conversion, so I don't know how it would work in practice.

If I load a session that is at 48, then need to load a session at 44.1, sometimes the plugins still operate as though they were at 48. If I find an awesome setting in one song at 48 for the master bus and I import the master bus plugins to a 44.1 song, they have the wrong frequency response. I have to open a new instance and copy the settings, one plugin will act as though it's in a 48 session while the other acts correctly for 44.1.

That's a relatively minor problem to me though, but it does make troubleshooting challenging.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #315
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
Is there any downside to say setting the DAW to 44.1 kHz to downconvert in real time from 48 kHz or to 96 kHz to upconvert from 88.2 kHz? A little more CPU power is used but for Acqua plugins would DAW sample rate conversion be OK to do?

I have been doing it that way whenever 48/88.2 packs aren't available and I can't hear any problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkandKurious View Post
If I load a session that is at 48, then need to load a session at 44.1, sometimes the plugins still operate as though they were at 48. If I find an awesome setting in one song at 48 for the master bus and I import the master bus plugins to a 44.1 song, they have the wrong frequency response. I have to open a new instance and copy the settings, one plugin will act as though it's in a 48 session while the other acts correctly for 44.1.

That's a relatively minor problem to me though, but it does make troubleshooting challenging.
Hi

Remember that AA plugins don´t do SRC on the fly, you have to restart your daw and session and most importantly your soundcard´s driver to the new sample rate so the plugins load the correct sample packs. I would say it is preferable to SRC your audio files as well.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-...l#post14265667

I recently did a whole album mix with downsampled files in 44.1, and then replaced them with the original 96 files and did the renders. It was a lot of work and demanded precise file managment, but it got done.

Hope this helps.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #316
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc23 View Post
Hi

Remember that AA plugins don´t do SRC on the fly, you have to restart your daw and session and most importantly your soundcard´s driver to the new sample rate so the plugins load the correct sample packs. I would say it is preferable to SRC your audio files as well.
The problem is when you discover a great setting on a different project and import that setting into your current project at a different sample rate. No amount of restarting will fix it, as the plugin instance seems to save the sample rate ie I load a 44.1 session and import my master bus settings from a 48kHz session. The DAW, interface etc never changes sample rate. Quitting and reloading do nothing, only manually copying the settings. to a new instance. It's just a management/workflow issue to be aware of though.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #317
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkandKurious View Post
The problem is when you discover a great setting on a different project and import that setting into your current project at a different sample rate. No amount of restarting will fix it, as the plugin instance seems to save the sample rate ie I load a 44.1 session and import my master bus settings from a 48kHz session. The DAW, interface etc never changes sample rate. Quitting and reloading do nothing, only manually copying the settings. to a new instance. It's just a management/workflow issue to be aware of though.
Sorry for that... I would say it's strange behavior... Perhaps has to do with how your daw manages sample rate? I know reaper has a couple of places to set it, don't know the difference... Cakewalk has to almost be hacked to change sample rate, but I'm sure plugins loaded correctly when doing so... If in ptools maybe it has to do with how aax manages plugin sample rate?

Check the link I posted, and follow the thread a bit... zaphid mentions a switch in the xml to turn on "on the fly" src, maybe that can help you... Although he mentions it's not recommended.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #318
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zaphod's Avatar
We support 48 kHz officially when reported in the change log. For years we have not been supporting 48/88 explicitly and nobody was complaining.
To be honest at the very beginning everything was 44 only. To my knowledge many nebula libraries are 96 only, or 44.
Our current path is very simple: when we plan further frequency rates we provide them after the product is consolidated. In very simple and specific cases we provide them immediately.
Not all products need an additional pack.
It is possible we are faster for scarlet, but it is not related with the amount of requests we receive. It is related with the speed of our developers and with other urgent tasks they could be involved in. If they are faster, the better.

I'll repeat it again: I'm using successfully all products at all possible rates, but if a particular knob position is a showstopper for you just stick with scarlet 3 till you are satisfied by scarlet 4. Simple like that.

I hope we don't go cyclic on this faq, but I'll cut & paste this message again and again
Old 4 weeks ago
  #319
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc23 View Post
Hi

Remember that AA plugins don´t do SRC on the fly, you have to restart your daw and session and most importantly your soundcard´s driver to the new sample rate so the plugins load the correct sample packs. I would say it is preferable to SRC your audio files as well.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-...l#post14265667

I recently did a whole album mix with downsampled files in 44.1, and then replaced them with the original 96 files and did the renders. It was a lot of work and demanded precise file managment, but it got done.

Hope this helps.
Exactly
Old 4 weeks ago
  #320
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc23 View Post
Hi

Remember that AA plugins don´t do SRC on the fly, you have to restart your daw and session and most importantly your soundcard´s driver to the new sample rate so the plugins load the correct sample packs. I would say it is preferable to SRC your audio files as well.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-...l#post14265667

I recently did a whole album mix with downsampled files in 44.1, and then replaced them with the original 96 files and did the renders. It was a lot of work and demanded precise file managment, but it got done.

Cakewalk has to almost be hacked to change sample rate, but I'm sure plugins loaded correctly when doing so...
Have you tried Cakewalk's upsample on render features EG using 96k instances w/ playback @ 44k?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #321
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceemusic View Post
Have you tried Cakewalk's upsample on render features EG using 96k instances w/ playback @ 44k?
Yes I have, and sadly it doesn´t work for AA. Since the samples have been already loaded, the plugins will work with whatever the soundcard´s driver is set to.

Check the link I posted and follow the thread a little, I explain it a bit more there!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #322
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Conundra's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkandKurious View Post
The problem is when you discover a great setting on a different project and import that setting into your current project at a different sample rate. No amount of restarting will fix it, as the plugin instance seems to save the sample rate ie I load a 44.1 session and import my master bus settings from a 48kHz session. The DAW, interface etc never changes sample rate. Quitting and reloading do nothing, only manually copying the settings. to a new instance. It's just a management/workflow issue to be aware of though.
One scenario among many that would make a user preset system an invaluable time saver.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #323
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
We support 48 kHz officially when reported in the change log. For years we have not been supporting 48/88 explicitly and nobody was complaining.
To be honest at the very beginning everything was 44 only. To my knowledge many nebula libraries are 96 only, or 44.
Our current path is very simple: when we plan further frequency rates we provide them after the product is consolidated. In very simple and specific cases we provide them immediately.
Not all products need an additional pack.
It is possible we are faster for scarlet, but it is not related with the amount of requests we receive. It is related with the speed of our developers and with other urgent tasks they could be involved in. If they are faster, the better.

I'll repeat it again: I'm using successfully all products at all possible rates, but if a particular knob position is a showstopper for you just stick with scarlet 3 till you are satisfied by scarlet 4. Simple like that.

I hope we don't go cyclic on this faq, but I'll cut & paste this message again and again
G, if you are using Scarlet successfully at 48, I would like to send you settings to test. I've already sent in a ticket.

When you public state you will support 48/88 packs for a product in the manual or on a public product launch, is that not explicit? Aquamarine4 and Gold2 have that promise in either manual or launch post, and 6 months to nearly a year later there is no sign of the packs. It does seem they are lower priority, when Coral2 or Purple2 have 48 packs within weeks. Is Aquamarine4 consolidated or not? Is Gold2 consolidated or not? As customers we don't know when a product receives this tick of consolidation, we just raise tickets that get closed and are often left unsolved, with promises that aren't delivered.

This lowers confidence. 48kHz is a standard for many parts of the industry and you are not taking it seriously. By treating 48 as an option, you are ignoring the way other people work when it is a a technical requirement for some clients. All products should be able to work properly at 48. You mention about the meters being broadcast standard, but don't 100% support 48kHz for post? That is not good logic, most people in post production who need LUFS need 48.

My experience is that you usually do fix things and you do provide exceptional upgrades, but I need to know in the product launch whether you will support standard sample rates for any commercial product. I can wait for a pack, but previous promises haven't been delivered and you are now saying some (undisclosed) products will NOT receive 48/88 packs.

Your business is built on accurate emulations, not on sample rate support. Customers join your family because they trust you to provide accuracy.

I am a MASSIVE fan of you products. I don't want refunds, and I am willing to wait because the products are exceptional to me (apart from a few settings). But please give us clarity on whether a product will support 48 or not from the product launch. For some people, sample rate is as important as whether it is VST2 or VTS3 of LUFS. This is the first time I have heard that you might NOT offer support for some products at industry standard sample rates.

Or, teach us how to edit the XMLs to use the 96 vectors properly in 48 sessions, ANYTHING to use they whole range of your products properly in 48.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #324
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zaphod's Avatar
This is the general path for a product release/update/upgrade:
- the product is released, there is a presale price
- typically the product changes and it could loose the backward compatibility
- we wait the product is stable and all main bugs are ironed.
- presale period ends
- we schedule additional packs, we modify the trial version of necessary
- we release missing packs

ATM we are at the second stage. If really you are looking for the most complete product possible just stick to previous release, which is complete
Nothing, really nothing will change this path. Possibly we'll change the path in the future, but it is something which should planned. ATM other releases are waiting, we can't change anything or our schedule will go nuts.
As explained many many times, if we damage the schedule the main effect is that several updates are cancelled, with no gain. Just the pain.
Also we schedule the 48/88 conversion once because it is incredibly expensive. If you love our pricing policies lately just accept this workflow. Scheduling 48/88 before could double costs and the product final price

About your question, scarlet3 had 48, so scarlet4 will have
Old 4 weeks ago
  #325
Lives for gear
Maybe we could get some info panel that would display what samples are being used (e.g. 44 vs 48), where is zero (-18? 0?) and maybe some other info I can't think of right now.
You could also create a matrix with all the plugins and availability of programs for given frequency?
I work at 48 and it seems like this is going to be time consuming to find out. I have not paid attention to that and perhaps this is why I have occasional problems like echo bug with Diamond 3.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #326
Gear Addict
 
plexus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcct View Post
Maybe we could get some info panel that would display what samples are being used (e.g. 44 vs 48), where is zero (-18? 0?) and maybe some other info I can't think of right now.
You could also create a matrix with all the plugins and availability of programs for given frequency?
I work at 48 and it seems like this is going to be time consuming to find out. I have not paid attention to that and perhaps this is why I have occasional problems like echo bug with Diamond 3.
It's interesting how some companies will not do these small things that would address a lot of customer concerns or at least set accurate expectations. But rather they would put up with the ongoing confusion and frustration of customers on forums and support tickets. All the time they spend lots of time replying and re-replying to repeat concerns. That time could be put towards making this kind of content on their site to better align customers to reality. It's kind of backwards thinking. But, if that's what they want to do, that's what we have to work with. I just don't understand the rationale to expend more effort while not really addressing customer concerns vs spending some effort and having customer's concerns settled.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #327
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
It's interesting how some companies will not do these small things that would address a lot of customer concerns or at least set accurate expectations. But rather they would put up with the ongoing confusion and frustration of customers on forums and support tickets. All the time they spend lots of time replying and re-replying to repeat concerns. That time could be put towards making this kind of content on their site to better align customers to reality. It's kind of backwards thinking. But, if that's what they want to do, that's what we have to work with. I just don't understand the rationale to expend more effort while not really addressing customer concerns vs spending some effort and having customer's concerns settled.
This is pure dunning-krugher
You don't have a clue about the time required for doing it, or the team required for doing it (you are implicitly guessing I'm involved in doing it, so my time could be better spent on that activity) or the time required for beta testing after we have those packs, or the cost derived by doing it twice because also original files need a further correction.
Also it's interesting we don't want to change expectations about our schedule.
We are just an humble company, we plan things in the best way we can, trying to minimize cyclic fixes, mistakes, and optimizing our limited resources.
We'll stick with the plan
Old 4 weeks ago
  #328
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zaphod's Avatar
Double
Old 4 weeks ago
  #329
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcct View Post
Maybe we could get some info panel that would display what samples are being used (e.g. 44 vs 48), where is zero (-18? 0?) and maybe some other info I can't think of right now.
You could also create a matrix with all the plugins and availability of programs for given frequency?
I work at 48 and it seems like this is going to be time consuming to find out. I have not paid attention to that and perhaps this is why I have occasional problems like echo bug with Diamond 3.

Sure in this exact case it is a fault of ourselves: normally we announce it in our press release, but in this exact case they forgot to do it.
I'll tell them to not repeat the mistake in the future
Old 4 weeks ago
  #330
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
This is the general path for a product release/update/upgrade:
- the product is released, there is a presale price
- typically the product changes and it could loose the backward compatibility
- we wait the product is stable and all main bugs are ironed.
- presale period ends
- we schedule additional packs, we modify the trial version of necessary
- we release missing packs

ATM we are at the second stage. If really you are looking for the most complete product possible just stick to previous release, which is complete
Nothing, really nothing will change this path. Possibly we'll change the path in the future, but it is something which should planned. ATM other releases are waiting, we can't change anything or our schedule will go nuts.
As explained many many times, if we damage the schedule the main effect is that several updates are cancelled, with no gain. Just the pain.
Also we schedule the 48/88 conversion once because it is incredibly expensive. If you love our pricing policies lately just accept this workflow. Scheduling 48/88 before could double costs and the product final price

About your question, scarlet3 had 48, so scarlet4 will have
I apologise if my posts have sounded ungrateful, I am just concerned. I don't wish you to rush, and I understand why you have to prioritise 44.1 and 96 over 48. Knowing that eventually there will be support provides me with confidence about my purchases. As I've mentioned, there is often a long gap between a product's pre-sale ending and the packs being released, and customers don't know why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Sure in this exact case it is a fault of ourselves: normally we announce it in our press release, but in this exact case they forgot to do it.
I'll tell them to not repeat the mistake in the future
Thank you!
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