The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
AES 2019: Louder Than Liftoff Announces Chroma+ Rackmount Bus/Mic/Instrument Amp
Old 3 weeks ago
  #31
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack View Post
Sorry I was talking about the fact that Void Corp members (owners of previous VC editions) are sometimes offered further discounts or sweeteners for having purchased the more expensive VC version (free/discounted colour module on Mr. Focus for example) the intro price on this is great and I certainly would never demand anything - just asking for clarification
Ah- that would be great!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #32
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentA View Post
Maybe I'm missing something, but if you have a patchbay, what's the issue and why do you have to go behind your rack? To switch from mic to line just unpatch the mics and patch in the outputs from your interface. You would just need TT-XLR cables or TRS-XLR cables depending on your patchbay. I have some devices that take mic or line in the same jack and this is what I do.
Gotcha. The way I set up my gear is I have an xlr patchbay near the floor that feeds the ins of all my mic pres. The outs of the mic pres hit a TRS patchbay and normal to ins 1-12 on my converters. In the case of mic pres that also have line functions (like the astounding SB!) I have those line ins and outs in separate spots in my TRS patchbays which are about 4’ up in another rack. The flexibility is great and I’m always ready to track and always ready to mix. Dr Bill seemed to get what I was getting and suggested an xlr A/B switch thing. I’m mulling it over.

Appreciate the thoughts
Old 3 weeks ago
  #33
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfurry View Post
Gotcha. The way I set up my gear is I have an xlr patchbay near the floor that feeds the ins of all my mic pres. The outs of the mic pres hit a TRS patchbay and normal to ins 1-12 on my converters. In the case of mic pres that also have line functions (like the astounding SB!) I have those line ins and outs in separate spots in my TRS patchbays which are about 4’ up in another rack. The flexibility is great and I’m always ready to track and always ready to mix. Dr Bill seemed to get what I was getting and suggested an xlr A/B switch thing. I’m mulling it over.

Appreciate the thoughts
Yeah, separate mic input and line input is something I look for in a pre. My Drawmer 1960, Heritage DMA 73, Silver Bullet, RTZ 9762, all have it.

I'm simplifying my setup. I have one TRS patch bay that I don't want to put 48 volts through, just line level. I don't want to further complicate the setup with a separate switching unit including the extra cables and connectors in the signal path.

I understand building to a price point. Maybe $10 for two more XLR connectors would add a $100 to the price, I have no idea. I would gladly pay the extra $100, as it is I guess I'll live without it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #34
Great work @ BradM , this really looks amazing. I also like your comment "These days gear needs to deliver results on both the front end and the back end", that's important to me.

When I saw the 1 set of xlr in's I realized that was probably the only limitation that may pose an issue, but an easy one to overcome. Besides my TRS patch bay for all my line level stuff, I do use a XLR thru patch bay that connects to all my mic in's. It easy enough to use a TRS > XLR male cable to patch that up, But I'm concerned about the 48v accidentally getting pushed.

I see no "line" button, so obviously I'm assuming it's line by default, then you need to engage the mic button for using the preamps.

Does the "mic" button need to be pressed in for the 48v button to function?

Cheers.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #35
Gear Head
 

Love it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #36
Lives for gear
This looks awesome.

One question, are the pots detented?

Curious about precise level matching and recall.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #37
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
This looks awesome.

One question, are the pots detented?

Curious about precise level matching and recall.

Yes!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #38
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by szyam View Post
When I saw the 1 set of xlr in's I realized that was probably the only limitation that may pose an issue, but an easy one to overcome. Besides my TRS patch bay for all my line level stuff, I do use a XLR thru patch bay that connects to all my mic in's. It easy enough to use a TRS > XLR male cable to patch that up, But I'm concerned about the 48v accidentally getting pushed.

I see no "line" button, so obviously I'm assuming it's line by default, then you need to engage the mic button for using the preamps.

Does the "mic" button need to be pressed in for the 48v button to function?
Hi Mark,

Yes a patchbay makes getting various types of input signals into the unit a breeze. For a super elegant solution I'd recommend checking out the Flock Audio Patch which I believe will let you mix both mic and line level signals, as it has its own 48V power for all 32 channels.

Correct, when the MIC button is out, you have a higher input impedance, the gain structure is configured for line levels, and 48V is blocked even if you accidentally engage the 48V switch. When you engage the MIC switch, the input impedance is lowered, the gain structure is configured for mic level signals, and 48V can be activated by engaging the 48V phantom power switch. Now, it goes without saying, if you have a line level device plugged into the unit be mindful that you don't engage both MIC and 48V. Like with other studio gear the user does have to take responsiblity for not annihilating one's gear with 48V.

There are also internal jumpers to complete disable phantom power within the unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
This looks awesome.

One question, are the pots detented?

Curious about precise level matching and recall.
Thanks, Ryan! The pots are all 41-detent pots. Recall is easy. Each hash mark corresponds to 30 minutes on the face of a clock.

To everyone else. I see your thoughtful questions and will try to post some replies later today. I need to take care of some things here at Rogue Planet Command first. Thanks for your patience.

cheers,
Brad
Old 3 weeks ago
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Unknown soldier's Avatar
 

I just bought a pair of used Chromas, and have no complaints on the performance.

So the question to me is the new power supply - will you notice better performance from the C+ vs the 500 series chromas in a Radial workhorse rack?

I'd only sell the chromas for the new + version if the performance was noticeably better, and given the great quality already with the standard chromas, its hard to see that being the case. Or?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #40
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown soldier View Post
I just bought a pair of used Chromas, and have no complaints on the performance.

So the question to me is the new power supply - will you notice better performance from the C+ vs the 500 series chromas in a Radial workhorse rack?

I'd only sell the chromas for the new + version if the performance was noticeably better, and given the great quality already with the standard chromas, its hard to see that being the case. Or?
Congrats on scoring the pair of Chromas. I believe the answer is yes. The new Hypermatter supply in Chroma+ performs at a level above what the Radial offers. The Radial 6-space rack I have is built like a tank and has great I/O, but it uses an off the shelf SMPS and basically there is minimal filtering to clean up switch mode noise or provide additional regulation above and beyond what the SMPS can do. FFT noise measurements taken with a Prism dScope reveal this very clearly. I have not tested the 10-space version so I can't comment if Radial has given it better performance or improved the design in any way since I purchased mine, but my assumption is that has a similar architecture and line lump SMPS. I have some recommendations for 500 series racks on my support page. If you give me a call I'd be happy to get extra nerdy on this topic with you.

cheers,
Brad
Old 3 weeks ago
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM View Post
Congrats on scoring the pair of Chromas. I believe the answer is yes. The new Hypermatter supply in Chroma+ performs at a level above what the Radial offers. The Radial 6-space rack I have is built like a tank and has great I/O, but it uses an off the shelf SMPS and basically there is minimal filtering to clean up switch mode noise or provide additional regulation above and beyond what the SMPS can do. FFT noise measurements taken with a Prism dScope reveal this very clearly. I have not tested the 10-space version so I can't comment if Radial has given it better performance or improved the design in any way since I purchased mine, but my assumption is that has a similar architecture and line lump SMPS. I have some recommendations for 500 series racks on my support page. If you give me a call I'd be happy to get extra nerdy on this topic with you.

cheers,
Brad
Brad,
Given the above, do you also hear a difference between Chromas in one of your recommended racks and the Chroma + with its hypermatter power supply?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Unknown soldier's Avatar
 

I"m sure the hypermatter power supply performs better, but what does that mean in terms of sound? More headroom? If you were to A/B the old chromas in a 500 rack vs the Chroma +, you'd here a noticeable difference? Honestly I'd be hard pressed to believe that, given differences in gear at this level isn't night and day. But maybe I'm wrong...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #43
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfurry View Post
Brad,
Given the above, do you also hear a difference between Chromas in one of your recommended racks and the Chroma + with its hypermatter power supply?
I haven't yet done an exhaustive listening test comparing all the racks I own to Hypermatter. But it's something I hope to eventually do. But in general, yes, I do hear a difference in the sound of gear when I use different power supplies...whether that's a DIY project, a 500 series modules, or a new product. Power matters. Sometimes I don't care about the differences and sometimes I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown soldier View Post
I"m sure the hypermatter power supply performs better, but what does that mean in terms of sound? More headroom? If you were to A/B the old chromas in a 500 rack vs the Chroma +, you'd here a noticeable difference? Honestly I'd be hard pressed to believe that, given differences in gear at this level isn't night and day. But maybe I'm wrong...
What it means in terms of sound is the following:
  • blacker blacks
  • better resolution of microdynamics
  • enhanced sense of 3D depth
  • improved transient detail, meaning the punchy stuff punches harder

I feel that Chroma is always going to sound really darn good no matter what you stick it in. But as a designer I'm always striving to do the best I can do and take things to the next level. The answer to your question depends on what 500 series rack we are talking about. Some 500 series racks sound amazing. Some sound meh. Imagine the only mic you've ever used to track vocals is an AT2020. You learned how to get the best sounds possible out of that thing for years, and then one day someone gives you a U67. Perhaps you might be able to achieve a better quality recording? To the untrained ear, is there really much of a difference (especially if listening with phone earbuds)? But to those that diligently strive to improve their craft the details matter and an expert could make the argument that the difference is "night and day". "Night and day" is always kind of an interesting comparative thing IMHO. When you have the music under the microscope and you are trying to hit a home run on the mix, then all these things can add up...better power supplies, better cables, better converters, better dither, etc. It's the same reason that some guitarists obsess about vacuum tubes, vintage film capacitors, and guitar/speaker cables. Then there's some folks that are happy to plug their Korean Strat into an amp sim plugin. FWIW I feel I'm making gear mostly for the former, and not as much the latter.

I look forward to you getting an opportunity to hear what we've cooked up. I think your ears will be pleased.

cheers,
Brad
Old 2 weeks ago
  #44
Here for the gear
 

sounds awesome brad! just wish I hadn't bought two chromas with the royal blue cards just a couple months ago...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Unknown soldier's Avatar
 

Do I also get whiter whites?

I totally get what you saying, every little thing is a millimeter better, and add up all the little things and you get centimeter. I say that kind of in jest, meaning that improvements to gear at the high end level are usually small and you end up paying big bucks just to get a slight improvement.

I'm using a radial workhorse 10 space rack with the chromas....hard for me to say the sound is compromised in any way, but of course I haven't A/B'd different racks. I can't imagine Radial would compromise on a piece of gear like this, but I guess there is always better.

I do agree with others that NOT including I/O for both mic and line separately is a bit of a bummer. Yes there are work arounds, but would it be that hard to include a function to have each input type route accordingly to separate I/O? Given the SB has this function, and also adjustable EQ, I'd probably just get a used SB for a few hundred dollars more.

Speaking of the SB, any plans on a MKII with the hypermatter power supply? I've got some cash to spend and I would wait if so!
Old 1 week ago
  #46
Lives for gear
 

I'm considering the Chroma+ for the mix buss. There are a couple (more or less) advantages I can see for getting it over the SB:

-Colour modules
-New power supply
-Lower cost

However, I don't see any way to link the two channels to one set of controls (please correct me if I'm wrong), so it seems it would be really annoying to try to match the L/R channel settings for a mix, especially if the pots are continuous. This is probably the biggest reason I'd get the SB over the Chroma+, the second being that I think I'd regret not having the cascading N|A circuits.
Old 1 week ago
  #47
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
I'm considering the Chroma+ for the mix buss. There are a couple (more or less) advantages I can see for getting it over the SB:

-Colour modules
-New power supply
-Lower cost

However, I don't see any way to link the two channels to one set of controls (please correct me if I'm wrong), so it seems it would be really annoying to try to match the L/R channel settings for a mix, especially if the pots are continuous. This is probably the biggest reason I'd get the SB over the Chroma+, the second being that I think I'd regret not having the cascading N|A circuits.
For the mix buss, I strongly feel you go SB. The SB eq is fabulous and fully adjustable. Blending the two mojo channels N-A or A-N at varying levels depending on the song is also the way to go on the mix bus- it can be surprising how a little “A” adds something to a song that mostly needs “N”, or vice versa.

I like the idea of Chroma for sub mixes or individual tracks. The A/N color needs are more predictable, and then having a carefully chosen color module to compliment the specific need of the instrument(s) is very appealing to me.

Just some thoughts!

Last edited by bigfurry; 1 week ago at 11:11 PM.. Reason: Clarity
Old 1 week ago
  #48
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
However, I don't see any way to link the two channels to one set of controls (please correct me if I'm wrong), so it seems it would be really annoying to try to match the L/R channel settings for a mix, especially if the pots are continuous. This is probably the biggest reason I'd get the SB over the Chroma+, the second being that I think I'd regret not having the cascading N|A circuits.
You are correct. The unit is essentially "dual mono / stereo". Not true stereo with a single set of controls like the Silver Bullet. Some might actually see this as an advantage, but personally, like you, I love the single matched and calibrated stereo controls of the silver bullet.

The pots are NOT continuous on the Chroma+ - they are detented, but there ARE variable tolerances in each detent in even the best of pots, and this can be a deal breaker to some very tweaky types (especially mastering guys), but in general practice / real world, I have not found this to be a big problem.

It sounds like the Silver Bullet is your best bet from what you have said - especially with the cascading mojo blocks, the full featured EQ and the workflow benefits, but if money is tight, or if the colour modules are super important, then the Chroma will be a great option for you to check out.

Best of luck! You really can't go wrong either way. I've got 5 SB's and 4+ Chroma's and they all see continuous use.
Old 1 week ago
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

Hi, that makes me thinking... I was really set to order the Chroma+ for tracking AND mixbus duties. I could use the DI and i am intrigued by the new power supply. I also thought going for the tube configuration would make up for the cascading option, since you get tube saturation instead.
But if I get inconsistent stereo imaging on my mixbus, that would be a bummer...
Old 1 week ago
  #50
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishmac View Post
Hi, that makes me thinking... I was really set to order the Chroma+ for tracking AND mixbus duties. I could use the DI and i am intrigued by the new power supply. I also thought going for the tube configuration would make up for the cascading option, since you get tube saturation instead.
But if I get inconsistent stereo imaging on my mixbus, that would be a bummer...

I wouldn't say you are going to get "inconsistent" stereo imaging with Chroma+. I've not had a problem. What you're NOT going to get is a single knob that's matched and calibrated like the Silver Bullet though. You're going to have to turn the knobs yourself and match your L/R levels just like you would with any gear that's got independent L/R controls.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump