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AES 2019: Solid State Logic Preview ORIGIN – Next Generation Analogue Studio Console
Old 4 weeks ago
  #241
What's up with all the whiney little bitchez?....as far as we know, SSL isn't holding a gun to anyones head and forcing anyone to buy this console. One has the freedom to NOT buy this....or buy something else, or you could buy this and then spend even more and add your own patchbay, dynamics processing and bong holder....I know where one could buy a 20 year old Otari console with similar specs/headroom/noise floor with patchbay, dynamics, total recall, automation, 16 spare channels, 1 spare power supply and 1 bong holder, for $3k...made in the USA when Clinton was president and we had a balanced budget.

API has a 50k console....it doesn't even have legs.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResonantMind View Post
Put some API 215Ls somewhere
you're missing the point: for a speedy workflow, fast access to crucial functions is king - if a function is not available or not easily accessable on the surface, imo the design is missing something.

no, i don't wanna patch eq's in, turn around, tweak some outboard gear that looks, acts and sounds much differently: i prefer the 'unité de combat' of larger desks!

(now you may laugh at me for complaining about some stupid filters but to me, they are an integral part of the sound, like the lid on the piano...)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
you're missing the point: for a speedy workflow, fast access to crucial functions is king - if a function is not available or not easily accessable on the surface, imo the design is missing something.

no, i don't wanna patch eq's in, turn around, tweak some outboard gear that looks, acts and sounds much differently: i prefer the 'unité de combat' of larger desks!

(now you may laugh at me for complaining about some stupid filters but to me, they are an integral part of the sound, like the lid on the piano...)
Nope, I'm not missing the point.

Leave them filters patched in. They have hardwire bypass. Place them close to you. Problem solved.

People have done more with less, you're definitely complaining.

Harrison has an 8ch 1u Filter unit, both hipass/lowpass. You could fit 24 filters in 3u of space, and then fit probably an 10 or 11 slot 500 series rack of compressors all in the center section.

don't complain. Adapt. reaching for things can be fun.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResonantMind View Post
Nope, I'm not missing the point.

Leave them filters patched in. They have hardwire bypass. Place them close to you. Problem solved.

People have done more with less, you're definitely complaining.

Harrison has an 8ch 1u Filter unit, both hipass/lowpass. You could fit 24 filters in 3u of space, and then fit probably an 10 or 11 slot 500 series rack of compressors all in the center section.

don't complain. Adapt. reaching for things can be fun.
on the contrary, you're delivering further evidence that you're missing MY point! you do neither know how or for what kind of projects i'm using my desks nor am i interested in your take on things: i would rather like to find out from ssl whether there is anything on the horizon... - nevermind and good luck with your gear choice!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
on the contrary, you're delivering further evidence that you're missing MY point... - and frankly, i'm not interested in your take on things but would like to find out whether there is anything on the horizon from ssl; nevermind and good luck with your gear choice!
Do you have a point? I'm not sure, are you sure? You might just be nitpicking or something already exists on the market for you and there isn't much point for SSL to release something worth $50k if it's already on the market.


Essentially what this console is, is this:

1.) Manages tracking sessions - provides two pres in one, routing, monitoring, cues to musicians, DAW levels and Monitoring levels separate.

2.) Balances and Sums an ITB mix. The automation, advanced filtering/EQing, compression, ie, fine mixing all takes place ITB. The console then provides final frequency and level balancing before the master sum or you take the faders out of the path and leave all level adjustments to the DAW.

That's it, and it's great. Simple, well thought out solution that is affordable. It's fantastic.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
This thread must be closed.

It's exactly this kind of stupid behaviour, very often from newbies, what made pretty much ALL old Pros to go away.
This used to be a place where Pros hung out, shot the breeze and shared their tricks and experiences. It's now apparently a kindergarten for teenagers.

People who'd never been to a commercial studio or are able to afford something, talking **** about everything, even about products that haven't even been released.

This is disgusting.
Word!

It's crazy all the negativity about this console with the most extreme example being posters even saying the PREs are useless sh*t when the console has not even been released.

What galls me to no end are people listing all the things it doesn't have, but then when you point out the console model that does have exactly what they want, they say it's too expensive - like seriously people WTF? Where is the logic?

Put your money where your mouth is, if you want dynamics on every channel, automation & DAW control, price out how much that costs for 32 channels from any brand and tell me what is the dollar amount. It's not going to be 50k to 60k that's for sure.

As I mentioned in a prior post, an API 1608 is about 50k for 16 channels with NO automation and NO dynamics.

A 32 channel 5088 costs 150k without dynamics or automation - 3x times the price of the ORIGIN - and yet people are bitching about the ORIGIN's price and feature set!!!!

Furthermore, due to environmental legislation it's next to impossible to get the sound of the old 80s consoles as certain metals, processes, and materials are simply UNAVAILBLE to work with in 2019. That has nothing to do with SSL or any brand for that matter. It's way beyond their control.

Additionally, whether people like it or not, China is the world's manufacturing hub for many reasons (and I'm not going to go into it that here), but as other logical and clear headed people have pointed out, made in China does not mean low quality. Lots of sophisticated, ultra high tolerance manufacturing work is being done in China across all industries.

The level of straight up un-informed, low information, illogical criticism of the ORIGIN and SSL is astounding and as Jindrich states, the quality of discussions here on Gearslutz has really spiralled downwards.

Last edited by siddhu; 4 weeks ago at 12:50 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #247
Gear Maniac
 

Board looks great, the only thing I would have changed ,would be less Dsub connections,
otherwise great job

Last edited by johnnyz; 4 weeks ago at 01:54 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResonantMind View Post
Do you have a point? I'm not sure, are you sure? You might just be nitpicking or something already exists on the market for you and there isn't much point for SSL to release something worth $50k if it's already on the market.


Essentially what this console is, is this:

1.) Manages tracking sessions - provides two pres in one, routing, monitoring, cues to musicians, DAW levels and Monitoring levels separate.

2.) Balances and Sums an ITB mix. The automation, advanced filtering/EQing, compression, ie, fine mixing all takes place ITB. The console then provides final frequency and level balancing before the master sum or you take the faders out of the path and leave all level adjustments to the DAW.

That's it, and it's great. Simple, well thought out solution that is affordable. It's fantastic.
you're making a bit too many wrong assumptions on my behalf for my taste!

as anyone else, i can pretty clearly see what this desk can or cannot achieve. no one however can imagine how someone else is going to use any technology, so no need for lecturing me...

any potential replacement for my aging desk needs to cover a few things according to MY needs and although this desk seems to cover many of them, it misses out on a pretty simple yet useful feature - now all i wanna know is if ssl might offer any hint at potential additions or if the desk in its current form is the end of the story.

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 3 weeks ago at 12:34 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 4 weeks ago
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
you're making a bit too many wrong assumptions on my behalf for my taste!

as anyone else, i can pretty clearly see what this desk can or cannot achieve. no one can however imagine how someone else is going to use any technology, so no need for lecturing me...

any potential replacement for my aging desk needs to cover a few things according to MY needs and although this desk seems to cover many of them, it misses out on a pretty simple yet useful feature - now all i wanna know is if ssl might offer any hint at potential additions or if the desk in its current form is the end of the story.
Yeah, I'm going to assume it is it for this desk, however they could release different channel strips for it.

I'm going to presume some sort of new AWS will be next to compete with the Neve Genesys Black - somewhere between the Origin and the Duality. AWSII




Does anyone here know what the price on a Duality Delta 24 channel is?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #250
I think we should learn to accept that, whenever anyone makes a piece of gear, releases it, hoping for the best, there will always be an imaginary “group think” version of said product, conjured up in the halls of Gearslutz, and yet, the irony of the dream to make every poster’s request an instant reality, spawning new, unusually arrogant monstrosities of audio opulence, would eventually find it’s way into the “why did they do it that way” museum of the future
Old 4 weeks ago
  #251
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResonantMind View Post
Yeah, I'm going to assume it is it for this desk, however they could release different channel strips for it.

I'm going to presume some sort of new AWS will be next to compete with the Neve Genesys Black - somewhere between the Origin and the Duality. AWSII




Does anyone here know what the price on a Duality Delta 24 channel is?
Last time I looked it was in the 300k range.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxplayerz View Post
Last time I looked it was in the 300k range.
Just found it, starts at $240,000! It's a beast!


$10k/Channel!


*edit*

I'm pretty sure I recall when the duality first came out, people were complaining there was no small fader and that it was a glaring mistake! can't please everyone!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clip6 View Post
Nice job SSL. API killer
Nope.
They’re different things.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I think we should learn to accept that, whenever anyone makes a piece of gear, releases it, hoping for the best, there will always be an imaginary “group think” version of said product, conjured up in the halls of Gearslutz, and yet, the irony of the dream to make every poster’s request an instant reality, spawning new, unusually arrogant monstrosities of audio opulence, would eventually find it’s way into the “why did they do it that way” museum of the future
well, some mid-price desks (about the same as the origin) in the olden days were modular and hence offered a path to 'custom' layouts or came with various amounts of stereo channels as standard: to me, it's not a sign of idiosycrasy to ask about such a feature, especially from a desk with a somewhat pompous name... - in fact, i miss a few more features (which could have been added without bringing up costs much)!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResonantMind View Post
Just found it, starts at $240,000! It's a beast!


$10k/Channel!


*edit*

I'm pretty sure I recall when the duality first came out, people were complaining there was no small fader and that it was a glaring mistake! can't please everyone!
Yeah wonderful kit I’d love one.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #256
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Wow

And I thought the "I love Behringer" "I hate Behringer" threads were hilarious.

Never thought I'd see it this bad in a SSL product thread.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #257
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Yeah this thread is getting worst by the day. Ok we get it, SSL miss the mark and they did not deliver...now can we hear from the folks who loves this product and are going to buy it. I’ll like to hear their plans, instead of some negative sally’s Winning about things outside of their powers.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #258
Old 4 weeks ago
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
...Show doesn't open for another half an hour...

Our website and social feeds will be updated shortly. More info will be updated there. Alternatively if you are in NY book a demo with our team at the show on booth 522 and see it in the flesh.
I'm wondering if that move-able center meter panel could be moved up above the console to some 19" posts and modify the console to make another 3u space for gear.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #260
To me this looks like a great console!

I grew up with a computer and work mostly ITB, so I probably have a different perspective than most people here that complain about automation and recall. I have very little experience with consoles and the workflow, but I don't see whats wrong with doing the automation ITB. Especially when you have many people working at the console, because everyone knows how to use a DAW and a straightforward analog mixer, and nobody has to get his head around an automation or recall system in the middle of a session.
I'm thinking about getting a console because I like twisting knobs and pushing faders, and I don't like the fact that being a producer/engineer/musician is mostly about "using your computer". That said, I have to jump a lot between different projects, and I don't have nearly enough budget for an SSL or at least something that sound wise would be an improvement over ITB. However, this thing looks pretty intriguing to me, because with the right workflow it could be perfect for this kind of situation.
Maybe something like this:

1. Tracking through the EQ into DAW

2. Doing all the mixing stuff hybrid and print the single channels back into DAW

3. Do all the automation ITB

4. Sum everything with the 0db switch engaged

Is there something wrong with that?
Has someone already heard how it sounds?

I guess the sound is the reason why many people turned to Neve or Api for tracking, and I personally would prefer having a simpler, "broad stroke" type of eq for tracking. But that could probably be solved with a nice rack filled with preamps and EQS etc.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #261
Rea
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A word about automation, and im not complaining at all, there is a place for this mixer and there is the AWS if automation is needed.

But just to address what people say about not needing automation out of the box-

Once you build an analog mix with outboard dynamics, your DAW automation is pretty much useless. The sweet spot is gone as soon as you touch a DAW fader...

Also there is no comparison between DAW automation and Analog Console automation when it comes to real time reaction.

For me doing automation on my AWS(which i had to sell unfortunately) was like playing an instrument. Time is everything in music.
Automating on the daw is a total hit or miss with all the latency issues. But that's my experience.

I would probably use this Console for tracking/producing and then, at mix time, split out an ITB processed mix into it, using the EQ'S and some group outboard Compressors that want to be ridden INTO, but not for channel Dynamics as a "Sound", on the insert.

Anyway glad to see this Console. I Love SSL Stuff and im sure it sounds huge!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #262
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This desk is a really cool option for the price! However, I and most people I have spoken with feel like for another $10,000, they could have added DAW control on the 32 faders(either large or small faders would have sufficed) and it would have been perfect as a hybrid centerpiece.

SSL has fixed things before after a lot of people complained, hence the Nucleus II which added the much requested talkback and 2 monitor outs...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bforest4 View Post
This desk is a really cool option for the price! However, I and most people I have spoken with feel like for another $10,000, they could have added DAW control on the 32 faders(either large or small faders would have sufficed) and it would have been perfect as a hybrid centerpiece.

SSL has fixed things before after a lot of people complained, hence the Nucleus II which added the much requested talkback and 2 monitor outs...
So why not grab an AWS?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
A word about automation, and im not complaining at all, there is a place for this mixer and there is the AWS if automation is needed.

But just to address what people say about not needing automation out of the box-

Once you build an analog mix with outboard dynamics, your DAW automation is pretty much useless. The sweet spot is gone as soon as you touch a DAW fader...

Also there is no comparison between DAW automation and Analog Console automation when it comes to real time reaction.

For me doing automation on my AWS(which i had to sell unfortunately) was like playing an instrument. Time is everything in music.
Automating on the daw is a total hit or miss with all the latency issues. But that's my experience.

I would probably use this Console for tracking/producing and then, at mix time, split out an ITB processed mix into it, using the EQ'S and some group outboard Compressors that want to be ridden INTO, but not for channel Dynamics as a "Sound", on the insert.

Anyway glad to see this Console. I Love SSL Stuff and im sure it sounds huge!
The market this desk is catered to is already accustomed to and adapted their workflow in this scenario you give, where they are working ITB but have some choice outboard they use to flavor - it simply dictates a workflow and that's fine - lots of creativity to explore within that. Edit first, then improve the mix and improve the sonics ITB and using outboard, then Automate and into the console you go for final balancing and a sum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bforest4 View Post
This desk is a really cool option for the price! However, I and most people I have spoken with feel like for another $10,000, they could have added DAW control on the 32 faders(either large or small faders would have sufficed) and it would have been perfect as a hybrid centerpiece.

SSL has fixed things before after a lot of people complained, hence the Nucleus II which added the much requested talkback and 2 monitor outs...
Another $10k hey, so you're going to have subpar DAW control mechanics on a nice desk of which will fail first because you budgeted in DAW control just so it makes the feature list? No thanks, I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things, It would make me not want to buy the console. It's better to not have something, than something that will invariably get in the way with problems.



Also don't forget everyone (mostly everyone) You have arms and fingers, and if you have a couple friends, you have all the automation you need... Funny that hasn't been mentioned once among all the.... philosophy... in here
Old 4 weeks ago
  #265
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9 pages in.... people just realize they have arms and fingers........
Old 4 weeks ago
  #266
Gear Maniac
 

a new aws would be great... Instant buy
Old 4 weeks ago
  #267
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Can the Origin be split in half, like an API 1608 and 16 channel expander? Then it could be put in a custom desk with your DAW controller of choice in the middle(Avid S6 or S3 or 3 S1's), plus computer keyboard and Screen. Would quickly solve all my issues.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bforest4 View Post
Can the Origin be split in half, like an API 1608 and 16 channel expander? Then it could be put in a custom desk with your DAW controller of choice in the middle(Avid S6 or S3 or 3 S1's), plus computer keyboard and Screen. Would quickly solve all my issues.
Well it is
It’s got a 19” rack in the middle
Old 4 weeks ago
  #269
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This made in China thing is just plain stupid.
Geography of manufacture is irrelevant it's quality control that counts.

Now PRC offers this level of quality it's viable for large companies to manufacture there or use parts from their gear.

My sons have started buying MI phones a Chinese company and they are absolutely beautifully made!

I remember when made in Japan was thought of as cheap rubbish .... today it's considered top flight.

As China becomes the new Japan so Africa will take over as cheap manufacture but eventually made in Africa will be considered top flight.

Just focus on quality not location, it matters not who the hands belong to, just that the hands are careful and able.

Good luck to SSL I think their new products are fantastic.

If I had the space to track real drums and a real piano or a large group then I'm sure this desk would be really great.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
A word about automation, and im not complaining at all, there is a place for this mixer and there is the AWS if automation is needed.

But just to address what people say about not needing automation out of the box-

Once you build an analog mix with outboard dynamics, your DAW automation is pretty much useless. The sweet spot is gone as soon as you touch a DAW fader...

Also there is no comparison between DAW automation and Analog Console automation when it comes to real time reaction.
Exactly.
This is an important distinction.
If you use outboard dynamics the level changes made in the DAW will only hit the outboard dynamics harder. It will not provide actual level change. The level change needs to happen AFTER the outboard dynamics / compression. Sure you could record the dynamics / compression back into the DAW, but then you still have to mix it back out again.

There are also many other ways in which console automation makes modern mixing possible / easier. But this issue of auto after the compressor is a giant one that I have found to be near impossible to get around.

Yes, the SSL is a beautiful console. But for a little more money my API 2448 has DAW fader / DAW automation DAW select, mute, solo etc.. control (that is incredibly fluid and awesome!!) and the console itself has automated: large fader, mutes, solos, insert sends and returns, program channels and their inserts solos and mutes, and unlimited automated mute groups and fader groups.
The automation package includes latch, write, update, trims etc.. It's a pro system that can build a quick mix, but more importantly it can RECALL mix automation with the push of a button.

I looked hard at SSL before I got the API.
I don't think people are slamming on SSL so much as they are lamenting / wishing it had automation to make their lives easier / quicker. Yeah, a modern 4000 kinda thing.
I really think this will be the next big thing they do is add auto. to the Origin.

I also have to add.. I interviewed about 7 or 8 current SSL AWS, Duality owners etc.. and only one or two didn't complain about reliability and or problems with their console. Not one person complained about their API. Audient owners also were very happy with very few issues that were quickly fixed solved.

The SSL post warranty service contract annual cost on a used AWS made me break out in a sweat.
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