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Genelec announces 8351B and 8361A coaxial monitors and W371A Adaptive Woofer System
Old 3 weeks ago
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka View Post
Hi,

As written before, I am not going to tell anyone which model he/she should buy - it is far too subjective and involves quite many variables. Even though 8351B and 8361A share the same coaxial driver, they are still otherwise two completely different loudspeakers and anyone should not think they sound identical even though you would combine them with one of our 7300 series subwoofer or the new W371 adaptive woofer system.

Having just spent a few hours listening to all of these combinations (I was at 3.5 meter distance), I can assure you they do not sound the same. For example, the 8361A has some clear benefits in the bass dynamics and headroom even when combined with the W371 crossed at 150 Hz, not to mention when using a lower crossover. Remember that the crossover between woofers and the mid is 320 Hz so having a subwoofer crossed at say 85 Hz leaves plenty of bandwidth for the woofers to play. And when comparing the woofer sections between the 8351B and 8361A, the latter wins by a clear margin. You don't need to be playing close to max SPL to notice this, better dynamic capability and lower distortion is realised much earlier. When playing them full range, the 8361A sounds much bigger and the bass headroom (up to 320 Hz) and extension are much better compared to 8351B event though the "raw" numbers might fool one to think they are more similar.

Go and have a demo is my best advice to all of you thinking about getting either one of them.
While we are at it, if listening at very close distances on axis, what kind of benefit would the 8351b have over 8341? Would these benefits kick in at a particular distance or be evident only at longer ones ?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog007 View Post
While we are at it, if listening at very close distances on axis, what kind of benefit would the 8351b have over 8341? Would these benefits kick in at a particular distance or be evident only at longer ones ?
See pages 15-16:

https://www.genelec.com/sites/defaul...180806_web.pdf
Old 3 weeks ago
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt View Post
Thanks... I fully get the minimum distance thing. I was more asking about the added benefits of 8351 over 8341. Are those benefits obvious at short distances on axis or more of an obvious thing when a bit of distance comes into play? Perhaps this is irrelevant to their differences?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #124
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka View Post
>>Moved here form another Genelec thread.>>


There will be more detailed placement guidelines later on, but in general terms the W371 allows more flexible placement compared to traditional omnidirectional subwoofers. As shown in the marketing materials, it can be placed just behind the meter bridge and have the monitors sitting on top of it, acting as speaker stands. Another option is to place the W371s more like traditional subwoofers, closer to the front wall/corners and have the monitors still in the near field.



Yes, it can be placed alongside the monitor.



Yes, this is exactly how it is done. W371 will be 'paired' with a monitor to allow them work together as a system.


It depends what kind of system you have in mind? The W371 has only single channel input/output, it does not have LFE channel support. It is meant for supporting near field monitors typically in stereo systems. It is not like a traditional subwoofer.
Thanks, I'm all the wiser.

Your recommendation is 7380 x 2 for multi-channel work.

I'm planning on 7.2.4 or 5.2.4 for home theater, hopefully 8351b for L/C/R, 8431 for surround and 8330 for height. I currently have 7360 x 2. If I added 7370 x 2, setting up 7.4.4, would that be sufficient? It's a touch under the 7380 x2 SPL, but still scraping it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #125
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog007 View Post
Thanks... I fully get the minimum distance thing. I was more asking about the added benefits of 8351 over 8341. Are those benefits obvious at short distances on axis or more of an obvious thing when a bit of distance comes into play? Perhaps this is irrelevant to their differences?
At a short distance? Without a sub, you'll quickly tell them apart. With a sub? Splitting hair. Some people enjoy that chore, others want the biggest and baddest, cost be damned. But if you're pragmatic, you'd save the $2,000 or over and use it wisely elsewhere.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #126
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Ilkka,

Thanks so much for the detailed and helpful reply, as always! I'm starting to consider 8361 more seriously then...
Quick question though - are 8361s going to be available in white, like the 8351s? There is only a grey picture on the genelec website, would be a shame if they're only one colour (my 8351s currently are white).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #127
Gear Nut
 

Anyone feeling generous? $

Old 3 weeks ago
  #128
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anagorny View Post
Ilkka,

Thanks so much for the detailed and helpful reply, as always! I'm starting to consider 8361 more seriously then...
Quick question though - are 8361s going to be available in white, like the 8351s? There is only a grey picture on the genelec website, would be a shame if they're only one colour (my 8351s currently are white).
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...1&d=1568993103
Attached Thumbnails
Genelec announces 8351B and 8361A coaxial monitors and W371A Adaptive Woofer System-screen-shot-2019-09-20-10.23.05-pm.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #129
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Shaggy2039's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoveringBit View Post
At a short distance? Without a sub, you'll quickly tell them apart. With a sub? Splitting hair. Some people enjoy that chore, others want the biggest and baddest, cost be damned. But if you're pragmatic, you'd save the $2,000 or over and use it wisely elsewhere.
I had the 51's in my room recently. Liked em' much more than the 41s. Still on the fence about all of them, honestly. I still think the 31's with the sub is the best way to go unless you go full on with the 51's.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #130
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Quote:
Thanks, but that 8351, not 8361.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #131
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World Studios's Avatar
I have my 8341s about a meter away to minimize room problems. I have 2 7350 subs as well. What would be the benefit, if any, of upgrading to 51b’s? I would still keep the subs to help with massive room problems. As I said before, having two subs in different places in the room make a huge difference, so I get that the 371s will be great since they can also do height. But they are way too expensive for me. Alas.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #132
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I just put down an order for a pair of 8351b. Not a professional tho it's just going to be my desktop speakers.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoveringBit View Post
At a short distance? Without a sub, you'll quickly tell them apart. With a sub? Splitting hair. Some people enjoy that chore, others want the biggest and baddest, cost be damned. But if you're pragmatic, you'd save the $2,000 or over and use it wisely elsewhere.
Aren't the mid and hf drivers 78% bigger on the 51b vs 41? It's 0.75in/3.75in vs 1in/5in. Not sure how much difference that makes tho.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #134
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BTW i saw this on the genelec forum

The coaxial driver in the 8351A was introduced already in 2009 when the 8260A was published. That means it had its 10 year anniversary this year. It is the 1st generation coaxial driver we have made. Since that, we have learned a lot when it comes to designing a high performance coaxial driver, and in 2017 we launched the 2nd generation coaxial in the 8331A and 8341A monitors. Now, in the 8351B and 8361A we are launching the 3rd generation coaxial driver which is a completely new design compared to the original coaxial. Please notice this is not the same as the physically smaller coaxial driver used in 8331A and 8341A monitors.

-neodymium magnet vs. ferrite which reduces the mass of the driver

-1 inch tweeter vs. 3/4" which leads to higher SPL capability but also larger bandwidth (up to 43 kHz)

-larger voice coil to provide more power handling as well as help to drive the cone from an optimum position

-lower woofer to mid crossover (470 Hz to 320 Hz)

-higher mid to tweeter crossover (2600 Hz to 2800 Hz)

-better overall performance, lower distortion

-better manufacturability and tighter tolerances



8351A and 8260A monitors will be discontinued which means the 1st generation coaxial will not be produced any more (of course spare parts are still available).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #135
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnasherrr View Post
Aren't the mid and hf drivers 78% bigger on the 51b vs 41? It's 0.75in/3.75in vs 1in/5in. Not sure how much difference that makes tho.
The mid driver on the 8351 is 5" and I still couldn't tell the difference from a 8341, given a sub. Will a 1" tweeter riven a new great divide? Yet to be heard. But I won't be surprised if moving up and down the family is a matter of scale and not grade.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoveringBit View Post
The mid driver on the 8351 is 5" and I still couldn't tell the difference from a 8341, given a sub. Will a 1" tweeter riven a new great divide? Yet to be heard. But I won't be surprised if moving up and down the family is a matter of scale and not grade.
No according to the genelec specs the 8351a and 8260 both have 0.75in/3.75in drivers
Old 3 weeks ago
  #137
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnasherrr View Post
No according to the genelec specs the 8351a and 8260 both have 0.75in/3.75in drivers
Unless I'm too inept to read spec, the mid is 5" in both flavors:
https://www.genelec.com/studio-monit...studio-monitor
https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_8351_apm.htm
(The 8351a isn't on Genelec website any longer)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #138
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoveringBit View Post
Unless I'm too inept to read spec, the mid is 5" in both flavors:
https://www.genelec.com/studio-monit...studio-monitor
https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_8351_apm.htm
(The 8351a isn't on Genelec website any longer)
It's still on the website :

https://www.genelec.com/8351a
Old 3 weeks ago
  #139
Gear Head
 

I’m thinking of purchasing a pair of 8331’s in the near future, but now I’m wondering if I should hold back incase there’s an update for that model coming as well?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoveringBit View Post
Unless I'm too inept to read spec, the mid is 5" in both flavors:
https://www.genelec.com/studio-monit...studio-monitor
https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_8351_apm.htm
(The 8351a isn't on Genelec website any longer)
my mistake it's 5 and 3/4 vs 5 and 1

2 x oval woofers
215 x 100 mm (8 ½ x 4 in),
coaxial driver with midrange
130 mm (5 in) + tweeter
19 mm (¾ in) + DCW™
Old 3 weeks ago
  #141
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tabbu's Avatar
 

That sub or ”low end extension” looks cool and I can’t help to make comparisons with similar Amphion’s offerings. On that note I’m thinking how well these would sit with my Amphion One18s. If the price is reasonable then maybe..?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #142
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@ Ilkka ,

Will there be a smaller version of the W371A to go with the 8331? ...would have been more suitable for me

MW
Old 3 weeks ago
  #143
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I’m using 8351 with 7370 for home listening instead of hiend stuff, and im supper happy, im not nervous any more. Just need additional 7370.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #144
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What’s the maximum amount of speakers supported using GLM? I read 30 per one brochure based on cat5/cat6 but I see 32+ immersive systems listed on listening distance brochure listed above. Can GLM support 40 speakers (32.8 etc)?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #145
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When available for purchase in France?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #146
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Ilkka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoveringBit View Post
Thanks, I'm all the wiser.

Your recommendation is 7380 x 2 for multi-channel work.

I'm planning on 7.2.4 or 5.2.4 for home theater, hopefully 8351b for L/C/R, 8431 for surround and 8330 for height. I currently have 7360 x 2. If I added 7370 x 2, setting up 7.4.4, would that be sufficient? It's a touch under the 7380 x2 SPL, but still scraping it.
Having differently sized subwoofers in the same system can be problematic. Unless you can somehow cleverly balance the load to each subwoofer/type, the smaller subwoofers will run out of maximum SPL before and limit the absolute system performance. One option could be to use the larger performance subwoofers for the LFE channel and lower performance subwoofers for the redirected bass.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #147
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Ilkka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anagorny View Post
Ilkka,

Thanks so much for the detailed and helpful reply, as always! I'm starting to consider 8361 more seriously then...
Quick question though - are 8361s going to be available in white, like the 8351s? There is only a grey picture on the genelec website, would be a shame if they're only one colour (my 8351s currently are white).
Both 8351B and 8361A will be available in three colours: dark gray, black and white.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #148
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Ilkka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CreamMachine View Post
@ Ilkka ,

Will there be a smaller version of the W371A to go with the 8331? ...would have been more suitable for me

MW
Unfortunately I can't comment about possible future product releases.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #149
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Ilkka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesklein66 View Post
What’s the maximum amount of speakers supported using GLM? I read 30 per one brochure based on cat5/cat6 but I see 32+ immersive systems listed on listening distance brochure listed above. Can GLM support 40 speakers (32.8 etc)?
The maximum number of SAM products which can be placed on a single GLM system layout grid is 77 pcs. Well enough for your intended system.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #150
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Ilkka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
When available for purchase in France?
Please contact your local distributor/dealer for more accurate information on availability. Production for 8351B has already started, 8361A will start in October and W371A in November.
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