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DiBiQuadro Virgo - The Best Clean Guitar Amplifier - Official Acqua N4 Plugin
Old 3 weeks ago
  #151
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiBiQuadro Audio View Post
Never say never... but let's stay down to earth . The actual technology put in place by Acustica Audio is amazing when you want to replicate some behaviors - frequency and phase responses - dynamics / compressions, reverbs, delay and eventually other time variant fx); even a good amount of harmonic distortion can be sampled correctly (it was the case for Virgo). If we talk about these aspects, I really believe this is the best technology on the market...

An overdrive pedal, or a rock guitar preamp with gain knob / made by several gain stages provide a lot more distortion. Sampling it is not easy at all, I'm not even sure it will ever be possible. A white box approach will always provide more distortion... Basic criteria to discriminate among all these emulations is to check at least how much aliasing they introduce, the absence of "weird" LPFs in the audible spectrum (let's say 10-22k) and the possibility to choose the amount of oversampling. I usually check the presence of artifacts with an oscilloscope too...
Aww, I was hoping for better news on the heavy gain front. Kind of like how the Kemper Profiler can handle things.

Even if there were just a select few gain settings (or overall settings, period), would it not be possible with Nebula tech? Or is the aliasing really the biggest problem?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #152
Gear Nut
 
DiBiQuadro Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
Aww, I was hoping for better news on the heavy gain front. Kind of like how the Kemper Profiler can handle things.

Even if there were just a select few gain settings (or overall settings, period), would it not be possible with Nebula tech? Or is the aliasing really the biggest problem?
I knew already that we would have ended up talking about TimP's distortion library and Kemper... and don't misinterpret my words: for sure they are 2 completely different techniques - let's say they are both something supposed to output some kind of sampled distortion.

Even if I have my ideas about both, I can't really tell you how they got their distortion; my theory is that in both cases distortion is not the result of sampling (I mean: sending testtone thru the hw, and processing it automatically in some way), but "modeled" in another way (again: 2 completely different ways). Specifically for Kemper, that kind of match was put in place by other companies, as far I can understand.

About NAT/Nebula: is it possible to sample an hi-gain guitar preamp directly? As far as I know: no, and it's not only a matter of aliasing. In the future, only zaphod knows .

PS1: the image of the THD I attached in one of my previous posts was not a joke.

PS2: if the owners of all the named techniques want to clarify or correct any kind of detail, they are more than welcome.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #153
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiBiQuadro Audio View Post
I knew already that we would have ended up talking about TimP's distortion library and Kemper... and don't misinterpret my words: for sure they are 2 completely different techniques - let's say they are both something supposed to output some kind of sampled distortion.

Even if I have my ideas about both, I can't really tell you how they got their distortion; my theory is that in both cases distortion is not the result of sampling (I mean: sending testtone thru the hw, and processing it automatically in some way), but "modeled" in another way (again: 2 completely different ways). Specifically for Kemper, that kind of match was put in place by other companies, as far I can understand.

About NAT/Nebula: is it possible to sample an hi-gain guitar preamp directly? As far as I know: no, and it's not only a matter of aliasing. In the future, only zaphod knows .

PS1: the image of the THD I attached in one of my previous posts was not a joke.

PS2: if the owners of all the named techniques want to clarify or correct any kind of detail, they are more than welcome.
I will keep my fingers crossed for future engine updates! From what I heard on TimP's bass amp library, it wasn't too impressive IMO.

I don't know how the Kemper works...I hope @ zaphod gets his hands on one though.

Thanks for the information!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #154
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiBiQuadro Audio View Post
Thanks to you for the kind words!

"...details about how to achieve near real time, and limitations are reported in the manual - a small tweak of the ZL xml is needed.
Virgo sounds amazing - quickly purchased. Sounds just like my old twin to my ears and drums also sound great through it. Looking forward to trying a rhodes.

For playing live guitar, on my macbook (Cubase 10 with an Apollo twin), I'm able to do the XML tweaks from the manual (FORCEOFFSET tag to 23 and DSP to 128), set the Apollo Twin to 128 buffer and Input Compensation to "Low" or "Off", and I'm able to play through live with doable latency.

On Windows 10 (Cubase 10 with RME madiface), when I set the buffer to 128 on the madiface and do the XML tweaks, there's still too much latency to play through Virgo live. Trying the buffer at 64 (on the madiface and in the xml tweak) gives artifacts. My Windows machine is a 7940 with 32 gigs of memory (all wifi off and the other Windows low-latency tweaks in place) and so is much more powerful than my laptop. At the 128 buffer (pic attached), the Input latency shows as 2.971ms and Output latency shows 4.104ms. That's lower than I'm getting on the mac side (about 10ms of latency total in and out). I tried using my Apollo directly in to the windows machine and I also get latency that makes it unplayable. I also tried turning off Asio Guard in Cubase, but still hearing too much latency.

Any one have any ideas?
Attached Thumbnails
DiBiQuadro Virgo - The Best Clean Guitar Amplifier - Official Acqua N4 Plugin-rme-128-virgo-zl-buffer-128.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #155
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filterfreak's Avatar
 

Seriously good sounding plugin! Glad I purchased it!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #156
Gear Maniac
 
Andy McGroarty's Avatar
Hi guys. I quite often make a short video when demoing a plugin to have a point of reference to help me decide whether to buy it or not. Just in case i have cloth ears on the day i can go back to the video with fresh ears and just listen, rather than being distracted by playing with the plugin and be a bit more objective about what i am hearing.

So, i did this with Virgo over the weekend and i thought i'd share the video as it may help others make a decision on whether to buy it or not. I used the Native Instruments virtual guitar Electric Sunburst without any effects on it to see if Virgo could bring realism to the virtual instrument and i have to say that i was impressed, it certainly does bring some life to it in a way that other plugins do not, so i ending up buying the library. Good work guys!

Here is the video, it was just slung together so is a bit rough around the edges but hopefully you get a sense of what the library can do: https://youtu.be/hkoqV1t1C-k
Old 3 weeks ago
  #157
Here for the gear
 

Trying the demo on my current Ivy Bridge i5 3470 rig I can use the zero latency version at a reasonable buffer in Reaper but only if I stay clear of the reverb and limiter effects. Even then there is the occasional crackle, and adding other intensive vst’s to the chain kills it.

What is the performance required to use this thing freely? Intel Skylake i7 and above? How does Ryzen get on with it?

I may pick this up in a few months to a year once I’ve upgraded to a more modern machine, probably Ryzen.

In terms of tone A/B-ing it against Helix Native shows both vsts to sound great for clean Fenders but Virgo sounds more alive and interesting. Native on the other hand is far, far lighter on resources.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #158
I find the description of this plugin very confusing. I have no idea what the N4 Player is about. The site to download it from seems pretty primitive. The Virgo site is not optimized for mobile devices and is not secure. It all makes me wonder what am I getting myself into going through a lot of confusing hoops to try something which look promising. Keep is simple stupid and looking professional could get some love.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #159
Gear Nut
 
DiBiQuadro Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
I have no idea what the N4 Player is about. The site to download it from seems pretty primitive.
Hello AudioSoundzz,

you can have a look at this quick tutorial made by London Acoustics and valid for all official Acustica 3rd party dev plugins.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #160
Gear Nut
 
DiBiQuadro Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinematree View Post
Virgo sounds amazing - quickly purchased. Sounds just like my old twin to my ears and drums also sound great through it. Looking forward to trying a rhodes.

For playing live guitar, on my macbook (Cubase 10 with an Apollo twin), I'm able to do the XML tweaks from the manual (FORCEOFFSET tag to 23 and DSP to 128), set the Apollo Twin to 128 buffer and Input Compensation to "Low" or "Off", and I'm able to play through live with doable latency.

On Windows 10 (Cubase 10 with RME madiface), when I set the buffer to 128 on the madiface and do the XML tweaks, there's still too much latency to play through Virgo live. Trying the buffer at 64 (on the madiface and in the xml tweak) gives artifacts. My Windows machine is a 7940 with 32 gigs of memory (all wifi off and the other Windows low-latency tweaks in place) and so is much more powerful than my laptop. At the 128 buffer (pic attached), the Input latency shows as 2.971ms and Output latency shows 4.104ms. That's lower than I'm getting on the mac side (about 10ms of latency total in and out). I tried using my Apollo directly in to the windows machine and I also get latency that makes it unplayable. I also tried turning off Asio Guard in Cubase, but still hearing too much latency.

Any one have any ideas?
Unfortunately we are not Cubase users and no issue spotted on Win10/Reaper (intel I7 / AMD 2950x); I hope other Cubase users want to share their experience / specific tweaks.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #161
Gear Nut
 
DiBiQuadro Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixolyd View Post
Trying the demo on my current Ivy Bridge i5 3470 rig I can use the zero latency version at a reasonable buffer in Reaper but only if I stay clear of the reverb and limiter effects. Even then there is the occasional crackle, and adding other intensive vst’s to the chain kills it.

What is the performance required to use this thing freely? Intel Skylake i7 and above? How does Ryzen get on with it?

I may pick this up in a few months to a year once I’ve upgraded to a more modern machine, probably Ryzen.

In terms of tone A/B-ing it against Helix Native shows both vsts to sound great for clean Fenders but Virgo sounds more alive and interesting. Native on the other hand is far, far lighter on resources.
In general, on win platforms I personally suggest to stay on Intel processors, which have usually less cores but they are slightly faster on the single cores.

I own an AMD Ryzen 2950x (16 cores/32 threads) and I would recommend it only if:
  • you are a software developer and you like working on other OSs (i.e. Linux, whose scheduler is faaaar better than the one on Win10)
  • you use specifically optimized multithreaded applications (i.e. 3d renderers). As far as I know, sequencers do not really take advantage of a high number of cores yet - and anyway, that's what I'm experiencing with Reaper.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #162
Gear Head
 
DiBiQuadroDavide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
I find the description of this plugin very confusing.


Can you be more precise? What is confusing for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
I have no idea what the N4 Player is about.
Please check the post above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
The site to download it from seems pretty primitive.
The download is done via Aquarius, which is a very nice application. Please check the post above. BTW it is not a secret this is not the simplest procedure ever, it requires a little effort to get used to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
The Virgo site is not optimized for mobile devices and is not secure.
That's true. It is something we already knew and considering to upgrade. It is a matter of effort/time and expected return. Deciding from appearance to not support us does not go in the direction of investing more. Which would be a pity also for you, you are missing great products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
It all makes me wonder what am I getting myself into going through a lot of confusing hoops to try something which look promising. Keep is simple stupid and looking professional could get some love.
The matter is simple. Do you need an amazing sounding clean amp plugin? Then the effort to get it is 100% justified.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #163
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixolyd View Post
What is the performance required to use this thing freely? Intel Skylake i7 and above? How does Ryzen get on with it?
The Intel i9 9900k works quite comfortable. Some people say the latest Ryzen's are on par but I have not had a chance to test. I have Ryzen 1800X as well and that one is not great for audio (latency, poor performance)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #164
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filterfreak's Avatar
 

is the plugin fully stereo?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #165
Gear Nut
 
DiBiQuadro Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filterfreak View Post
is the plugin fully stereo?
Hello filterfreak,

a reply to a very similar question has been provided here
Old 2 weeks ago
  #166
Lives for gear
 

I bought it. Really enjoying it so far. Wish it could do what it does without being so processor intensive. Wondering if there is possibility of even a slightly more efficient version coming down the road. End up shutting the reverb off, though I do really love it.

Great job on the plug.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #167
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filterfreak's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiBiQuadro Audio View Post
Hello filterfreak,

a reply to a very similar question has been provided here
ah ok...thank you!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #168
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiBiQuadroDavide View Post
confused
Can you be more precise? What is confusing for you?
I looked at the video tutorial and that cleared up that this is not a normal single application iLok kind of installation. That for some reason the Plugin needs an additional plugin to reside in (seems like from another company on top of that). Reminds me a bit of when Slate created Racks to put his plugins into and then forced releases to use it (that was the last plug I purchased from him). A bit too complicated of an installation for me, probably creates extra unneeded CPU overhead as well. Too bad as it does look promising. Why not just have it as a single plugin like others?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #169
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
I looked at the video tutorial and that cleared up that this is not a normal single application iLok kind of installation. That for some reason the Plugin needs an additional plugin to reside in (seems like from another company on top of that). Reminds me a bit of when Slate created Racks to put his plugins into and then forced releases to use it (that was the last plug I purchased from him). A bit too complicated of an installation for me, probably creates extra unneeded CPU overhead as well. Too bad as it does look promising. Why not just have it as a single plugin like others?
It's very simple. N4 is the plugin, Virgo is a 3rd party library for it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceemusic View Post
It's very simple. N4 is the plugin, Virgo is a 3rd party library for it.
Thanks for clearing that up a bit. Seems odd. Are the libraries simply presets? Why the need for the N4?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #171
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Arionas's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Thanks for clearing that up a bit. Seems odd. Are the libraries simply presets? Why the need for the N4?
Lets say it is something like Kontakt.
The sampler (N4 or N4 player) and the libraries with various samples (Virgo, Brighton, etc), so it's not just presets.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arionas View Post
Lets say it is something like Kontakt.
The sampler (N4 or N4 player) and the libraries with various samples (Virgo, Brighton, etc), so it's not just presets.
Ok - It hard to get a simple picture of that from the sites but that I understand spelled out that way. They should maybe look at UVI which has a very clear site for how the free Falcon player works with second party plugs integrate. The picture of the N4 actually looks like a rack piece of gear so I was thinking it was hardware like a UAD card/box or TC Powercore thing. Maybe it is as well

Last edited by AudioSoundzz; 2 weeks ago at 06:33 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #173
Lives for gear
 

Never had problems with authorations before, installed the demo, authorized it and it still asks for authoration. Bought the plug-in, same thing:(

Mac, au , mojave

Anyone else experience the same problem?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #174
Lives for gear
 
Arionas's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Ok - It hard to get a simple picture of that from the sites but that I understand spelled out that way. They should maybe look at UVI which has a very clear site for how the free Falcon player works with second party plugs integrate. The picture of the N4 actually looks like a rack piece of gear so I was thinking it was hardware like a UAD card/box or TC Powercore thing. Maybe it is a well
Personally I'd like to be a hardware like a UAD card/box, to save resources from my main computer.
Well... something new about this and more, is on the Horizon (search "Modula")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n9OCWkYo-s
Old 2 weeks ago
  #175
Gear Nut
late to the party but finally purchased (and still at the intro price!). excited to give it a spin tonight.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #176
Lives for gear
 

Enjoying this with a couple of STL Tube Screamer emulations in front of Virgo.

Edit: Enjoying that setup a LOT.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #177
Gear Nut
took a little tweaking to be able to play it in real time (updated VirgoZL.XML per the manual but also couldn't set the buffer in my DAW lower than 128 samples), but the sound is as advertised. turned it on and it immediately sounded like air being pushed in front of a guitar cab. the tone stack is killer and can add a lot of heft and sparkle/chime in a way that is always musical and that i haven't heard with EQ. it's a sound i've heard on records, at shows, and standing in front of an amp, but never in the box.

my only complaint is the bursts of noise when i was playing with the input too high that nearly wrecked my ears. didn't touch the input knob after the second time that happened.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #178
Lives for gear
My B2B early access Purchase Request is in the pipeline. Thanks for extending it a couple of days for those asynchronous summer holiday takers amongst us!! I love andown everything you guys have put out for N4! I don’t need to listen to this to buy it after Bronze Osaka and Brighton!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #179
Gear Nut
one other small gripe - the ZL version is not installed as a VST or AU via aquarius, so the only way to use it is to load N4 and then load the ZL program.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #180
Gear Maniac
 
omkar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiBiQuadro Audio View Post
Just to give an idea of how much Virgo matches the real thing, I have taken the first note from files - left channel - :
  • Chords Single Coil - Virgo 57.wav
  • Chords Single Coil - Hardware 57.wav

available at: http://dibiquadroaudio.com/samples/D...%20Samples.zip

you can find a visual comparison of the waves in attachment. I'm sure you can notice that the shapes are the same - this can happen when not only the frequency responses match, but also the phase responses / harmonic distorsions.

I still remember we saw this kind of comparison done with a very famous amp profiler a pair of years ago...
Terrible timing atm,
just want to say thanks for your efforts to bring Virgo closer to users.
Try to catch it tomorrow, best & cheers.
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