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Waves Audio and Abbey Road Studios Introduce the Abbey Road Studio 3 Plugin
Old 6 days ago
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceemusic View Post
That's what I would think, only use Waves not both, otherwise the processing would be wrong.
That's an interesting question. Not sure about that.i would have thought that if you use the sonarworks correction BEFORE this Plugin, this should work fine (of course applying no correction curve within the abbey road, then). The logic behind it would be: first you make your headphone curve (kind of) linear, then you go into the abbey road. Wouldn't that give you optimal results? Thoughts?
Old 6 days ago
  #32
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack View Post
True but I thought that was what NX was - an idealized “perfect” acoustic space simulated on headphones.... seems odd (dumb) to sample an actual space - regardless of how legendary it is as In the real world - even custom built money no object studios are never truly perfect.

I was really hoping this was a Waves version of UAD Ocean Way plugin albeit Abbey Road - now THAT would be the business!
The post I was responding to was basically denouncing the idea that anyone would want to use something that puts the sound further away in front of you in the first place, rather than having the left and right channel coming at you from each side of your head. My answer was intended to be general, with nothing to do with this new product specifically.

That being said though: It's quite apparent to me already without even trying the new plug-in that NX and ARS3 serve slightly different purposes.

Anyone with experience using Focusrite's VRM technology pretty much knows what to expect here from ARS3. Despite the obvious differences between the two products, it's more or less the same idea. Modeling the response of some studio monitors as they sound within a specific studio environment. That can provide a user with a totally different listening perspective than their headphones alone can provide. NX on the other hand is simply providing a user with a "colorless" 3D mixing environment. They both serve different mixing purposes for headphone users.
Old 6 days ago
  #33
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BlackBackDrop's Avatar
 

Garbage

Tested extensively last night.

I literally have too much negativity about his garbage I decided instead to ask a simple question.

What on Earth are Waves doing?

BBD.

PS: 88.2 craps out for anyone interested.
Old 6 days ago
  #34
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojhmusic View Post
If this would help you mix better and when I can check my mixes hear rather than cars. Would help me achieve a well balance mix then Im sold. Would not entirely mix with this plugin though. Its just not natural for me? I mean get used to the sound of your studio not abbey road. Every room is tuned differently.
Treat it as an additional way to check your mix for any issues that may cause it not to translate properly to the widest variety of playback sources. That isn't always as easy to do with a single pair of headphones, but sometimes people find themselves in situations where you're working away from the studio, and all you have is a single pair on you, and you got work to do regardless. Having a few different products that can provide you with different listening perspectives is helpful.
Old 6 days ago
  #35
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BlackBackDrop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
Treat it as an additional way to check your mix for any issues that may cause it not to translate properly to the widest variety of playback sources.
Why would I reference my hard work on with a tool that introduces a bunch of phase problems, completely destroys my pan placement and adds some weird reflection/flutter into the mix?

Snake Oil - AVOID!
Old 6 days ago
  #36
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim View Post
That's an interesting question. Not sure about that.i would have thought that if you use the sonarworks correction BEFORE this Plugin, this should work fine (of course applying no correction curve within the abbey road, then). The logic behind it would be: first you make your headphone curve (kind of) linear, then you go into the abbey road. Wouldn't that give you optimal results? Thoughts?
Actually my thinking was wrong. If combined SW should probably come AFTER this Plugin, see

Goodhertz CanOpener Studio v3
Old 6 days ago
  #37
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim View Post
That's an interesting question. Not sure about that.i would have thought that if you use the sonarworks correction BEFORE this Plugin, this should work fine (of course applying no correction curve within the abbey road, then). The logic behind it would be: first you make your headphone curve (kind of) linear, then you go into the abbey road. Wouldn't that give you optimal results? Thoughts?
I think you're missing the point of the original question and the answer that was arrived at.

Using two different forms of headphone correction (Waves Headphone EQ option in the ARS3 plug-in, and Sonarworks) at the same time isn't going to result in anything remotely accurate to the way things are intended to sound with the Waves plug-in. You should either use the Headphone EQ option provided in the Wav's plug-in if your headphones are supported, or leave it off and use Sonarworks to provide headphone correction as you normally would, but don't use both together at the same time.
Old 5 days ago
  #38
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBackDrop View Post
Why would I reference my hard work on with a tool that introduces a bunch of phase problems, completely destroys my pan placement and adds some weird reflection/flutter into the mix?

Snake Oil - AVOID!
Why ask me? I haven't personally evaluated the plug-in for myself yet. I'm hoping that based on the concept, it performs somewhat like Focusrite's VRM technology did, even though this is just focused on modeling the response of three different monitors in a single studio environment. If it performs with a similar sort of usefulness, I may have some use for it as an additional mix checker when working on headphones.

VRM wasn't great sounding either, but that wasn't what anyone who had any success using the product found useful about it anyway. If you looked at VRM from the perspective of it being a substitute for the sound and feel of working with real studio monitors in a real studio environment, it would definitely come off as Snake Oil as well.

When I finally try the plug-in for myself, I'll share specific impressions of it in this thread based on my experience with other similar products.
Old 5 days ago
  #39
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sirthought's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim View Post
That's an interesting question. Not sure about that.i would have thought that if you use the sonarworks correction BEFORE this Plugin, this should work fine (of course applying no correction curve within the abbey road, then). The logic behind it would be: first you make your headphone curve (kind of) linear, then you go into the abbey road. Wouldn't that give you optimal results? Thoughts?
Waves NX (what ARS3 is based on) and Sonarworks are very much competing products. They are trying to appeal to the same consumer "need" but tackle things differently.

I think you are really messing up what you're experience should be by mixing the two. This isn't a case like with Can Opener where it enhances and works in concert with Sonarworks. The NX tech likely works somewhat like Can Opener, but even more so with surround capabilities.

I haven't tried ARS3, but felt that NX was a bit too weird to mix in. Maybe if I was doing surround stuff I may find it more helpful, but if that was the case I'd likely have a better mixing room.

So, my advice is if you want to use ARS3...put Sonarworks and Can Opener away.
Old 5 days ago
  #40
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sirthought's Avatar
Watching all the YouTube videos...and I'm tainted. I keep expecting CLA to jump out and claim this will be the sound of hits. Heard it over and over in my head as the videos played
Old 5 days ago
  #41
Here for the gear
 

The whole Nx technology is a godsend to those restricted to working on headphones (always on the move or working all night in an apartment with thin walls, etc), and not by making it just bearable for a couple of hours at a time, but making it actually enjoyable, especially when coupled with a sub bass monitoring device like Subpac. The head tracking very much distinguishes it from other crosstalk/hrtf plugins in terms of the "out of head" experience.

I'm not talking about it as an ultimate solution for mixing/mastering, but as a workflow for production (listening to dry synths without spatial reference for hours on headphones can be brutal on your hearing and mental health for example). The Nx virtual mix room already made a huge difference in that regard, and now this is like a 2.0 version of that with better imaging, more comfortable acoustics and a more natural/intuitive immersion. Those are the factors that matter IMO -again, for a mobile production workflow. All that said I can imagine getting familiar with it enough to be able to mix in it over time.

The only issue I have is with the "800-1500" sample latency unreported to the host. A Subpac is better used on a separate clean channel and that time discrepancy between the two signals is not so cool. Waves then should at least publish a latency chart. I did some needle pulse measurements for 44.1khz and 96khz that I usually work in, here are the results if anyone's interested:

@44.1kHZ in samples:
Near 544
Mid 656
Far 828

@96kHz in samples:
Near 1191
Mid 1435
Far 1809

Last edited by The Squid; 5 days ago at 01:44 PM..
Old 5 days ago
  #42
Here for the gear
 

And if you listen, Alan Parsons is very, very careful about what he says about the product. Not much about whether it adds any real value.
Old 5 days ago
  #43
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biksonije's Avatar
 

I don't like these artificially made environments and plugins that can make any room or environment available in my ears or headphones. Hats off to 3D space engineers and engineering and all the effort, research, tech and code acomplishments thou. But that's another story.
Old 5 days ago
  #44
Gear Maniac
My first reaction was "A dynamic room modeling plugin like UAD's Ocean Way Studios with all the vintage mics and everything...?! Yes!!!", cos I thought that they modeled the Abbey Road Studio 2.

I guess my hopes were so high that it affected my reading capabilites and I was seeing things for a second.
Old 5 days ago
  #45
Jtt
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Jtt's Avatar
 

Seems kind of videogame-ish (not that photorealistic guis aren’t).

An abbey road version of ocean way would have been cool.
Old 5 days ago
  #46
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Im getting pretty good results with this with my HD 600s.
Old 5 days ago
  #47
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack View Post
True but I thought that was what NX was - an idealized “perfect” acoustic space simulated on headphones.... seems odd (dumb) to sample an actual space - regardless of how legendary it is as In the real world - even custom built money no object studios are never truly perfect.

I was really hoping this was a Waves version of UAD Ocean Way plugin albeit Abbey Road - now THAT would be the business!
Exactly what I thought, too. That it
requires you use headphones makes it
pointless for me.
Old 5 days ago
  #48
Gear Head
 

Using the plug to help identify resonance in a mix using the mid and far speakers. Minor tweaks that lead to translation improvements makes the world go around.
Old 5 days ago
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
I think you're missing the point of the original question and the answer that was arrived at.

Using two different forms of headphone correction (Waves Headphone EQ option in the ARS3 plug-in, and Sonarworks) at the same time isn't going to result in anything remotely accurate to the way things are intended to sound with the Waves plug-in. You should either use the Headphone EQ option provided in the Wav's plug-in if your headphones are supported, or leave it off and use Sonarworks to provide headphone correction as you normally would, but don't use both together at the same time.
Reread my post. I wrote with the correction curve inside the waves DEACTIVATED. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to replace the EQ headphone correction curve that wave applies with the one from Sonarworks (not use both EQ corrections. That would be stupid).

That said I'm pretty sure we both don't know enough about the way the wave Plugin operates internally to give a conclusive answer to this question. And I don't care either, I'm perfectly happy with SW + canopener.
Old 5 days ago
  #50
Here for the gear
 

Holy **** all that hate. I bought this yesterday and I'm enjoying it full on. Great sounding virtual environment
Old 5 days ago
  #51
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blaugruen7's Avatar
Do you guys use it together with sonarworks? If yes after our before?
Old 5 days ago
  #52
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim View Post
Reread my post. I wrote with the correction curve inside the waves DEACTIVATED. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to replace the EQ headphone correction curve that wave applies with the one from Sonarworks (not use both EQ corrections. That would be stupid).

That said I'm pretty sure we both don't know enough about the way the wave Plugin operates internally to give a conclusive answer to this question. And I don't care either, I'm perfectly happy with SW + canopener.
Respectfully, I don't need to reread your post. You're still missing the point. The original post that all of this started from in the first place came from a forum member named tommijk. His post caused ceemusic to post a question, which I then responded to. That question had to do with the aspect of using both methods of correction at the same time. His response: "That's what I would think, only use Waves not both, otherwise the processing would be wrong.", was based on his response to my answer of his question.

No one is saying you can't replace the Waves correction with the Sonarworks correction, just that you shouldn't apply both at the same time. Internal working knowledge of the Waves plug-in isn't necessary, because a general understanding of the plug-in and common sense should be able to tell you why that isn't a good idea. Nothing was wrong with what you were saying in your post, other than the fact that it just had nothing to do with the conversation you quoted. No need to get salty about it.
Old 5 days ago
  #53
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

I haven't read this thread, I just saw the outline of the product idea and I said "For real?" and I giggled.

I'm not the target market, I guess.

- c
Old 5 days ago
  #54
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bgood's Avatar
Interesting idea...

I’m honestly waiting for late model cars to be modeled so I don’t have to run out to the garage and car check stuff lol

I LOL, but, seriously, that sh|t would be really cool
Old 5 days ago
  #55
Gear Maniac
 

And by the way, I think it's a bad idea to use this plugin in the first place. Definitely not a product I'm interested in.
Old 5 days ago
  #56
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
Respectfully, I don't need to reread your post. You're still missing the point. The original post that all of this started from in the first place came from a forum member named tommijk. His post caused ceemusic to post a question, which I then responded to. That question had to do with the aspect of using both methods of correction at the same time. His response: "That's what I would think, only use Waves not both, otherwise the processing would be wrong.", was based on his response to my answer of his question.
You are right, I apologize! I just reread the whole thread.

So actually we agree regarding the question. In theory one could use the plugin as such with SW, but not the EQ curve within the plugin and SW at the same time. my question (technically) would then where in the signal chain of the internal waves processing is the eqing placed. probably last in the chain, so if you want to use SW it should be after the plugin.

Anyway. It would be a waste of time anyway, probably
Old 5 days ago
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
Interesting idea...

I’m honestly waiting for late model cars to be modeled so I don’t have to run out to the garage and car check stuff lol

I LOL, but, seriously, that sh|t would be really cool
No doubt. They need to model the inside of a Prius. F*% Abby Road. lol
Old 5 days ago
  #58
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Jantex's Avatar
 

I rarely use headphones for check up, but despite being very sceptical and also believed this being snake oil, when I tried it with HD800S, it actually really works and sounds great and definitely improves headphone experience for me in a great extent.
Old 5 days ago
  #59
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.dot View Post
No doubt. They need to model the inside of a Prius. F*% Abby Road. lol
Jokes aside, for "car stuff" I currently make due with MixChecker Pro.
Old 5 days ago
  #60
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Blountedge's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommijk View Post
This sounds quite good with Sennheiser HD650 and Sonarworks in the chain as well. VERY speaker-like, almost too much maybe.. monitor options are also nice.
I have the same headphones and got the same result. So far, I've found it to be more helpful than harmful to the mixes that I've tried it on, particularly with bass frequencies and depth perception.
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