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Airwindows StudioTan: Mac/Windows/Linux AU/VST Saturation Plugins
Old 4 weeks ago
  #31
Gear Addict
 

You can rename plugins and create custom user folders in Logic's plugin manager window. I deleted most of the Logic plugins and replaced them with 3rd party ones and created new categories like Specialized or Nebula EQ Sets or whatever I need. Logic Pro X 10.4.1
Old 4 weeks ago
  #32
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger View Post
You can rename plugins and create custom user folders in Logic's plugin manager window. I deleted most of the Logic plugins and replaced them with 3rd party ones and created new categories like Specialized or Nebula EQ Sets or whatever I need. Logic Pro X 10.4.1
Thanks for the tip.

Is that what used to be the AU Manager prior to Logic Pro X? I don't suppose there's a way of renaming them in Logic 7 or 9 (both of which I still use as well as X).

I was thinking there might be a way that involved editing the component in some way.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #33
Gear Addict
 
sirthought's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaNoam View Post
How can I rename them? bearing in mind that I'm on Macs (both Intel & PPC). Changing the name of the AU component doesn't work.
In Logic you have the Plugin Manager under the first menu column, where you can give anything a nickname. You can also drag each plugin into the category of your choosing, or create a category. So move any compressor to Dynamics, etc. It's pretty handy in my opinion.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #34
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirthought View Post
In Logic you have the Plugin Manager under the first menu column, where you can give anything a nickname. You can also drag each plugin into the category of your choosing, or create a category. So move any compressor to Dynamics, etc. It's pretty handy in my opinion.
As mentioned above your post, this only works for Pro X and I need a solution for 7 and 9.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #35
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sirthought's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaNoam View Post
As mentioned above your post, this only works for Pro X and I need a solution for 7 and 9.
Ah, sorry. You are missing out! No other suggestions right now.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B Elgin View Post
I'm really grateful that we can all benefit from Chris's mad DSP experimentations and generous business model. Keep it up Chris!

Also excited about the NJAD update - it was my go to for pre-transfer DA dither but sometimes almost too bright and airy through the HEDD Quantum -which is quite airy already. This new incarnation may be perfect and it's awesome to have these all available together.
Have you tried it already, Brian?
Did a quick test today, I really like what DMT now does. A very dimensional attidute, but might not fit everything.
Cool to have those three in one plug in now.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Have you tried it already, Brian?
Did a quick test today, I really like what DMT now does. A very dimensional attidute, but might not fit everything.
Cool to have those three in one plug in now.
Yeah DMT isn't for everything but when it suits it just gives nice bit of space and air.

Really cool to have all 3 in there, i've found different tracks respond well to each so far, prefer the new njad sound. Great release.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
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thermos's Avatar
Really like the new NJAD! The old one was too bright at times for sure, this one seems really nice. Not dark by any means.
The other 2 flavors sound really great too.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
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B Elgin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Have you tried it already, Brian?
Did a quick test today, I really like what DMT now does. A very dimensional attidute, but might not fit everything.
Cool to have those three in one plug in now.
Just tested more carefully - I am using the updated NJAD before transfer DA and this works a bit better now! Great. And the DMT or ST as a final dither both offer something usable.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by B Elgin View Post
Just tested more carefully - I am using the updated NJAD before transfer DA and this works a bit better now! Great. And the DMT or ST as a final dither both offer something usable.
I hasnt even realized thats a new NJAD yet, so I didnt even tried it. Just compared DMT to old NJAD before the transfer DAC and immiatly liked it for that track I was working on.
Having all three to finetune the sound of the analog chain is a big plus I bet. Curious to test it a bit more back on monday...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
Here for the gear
 

Chris, these new Dithers are game changers, seriously! I've always been a bit fussy about dithers (weirdo, I know) But DitherMeTimbers and NJAD are just stunningly good. I don't use any other dithers nowadays.

By the way, someone on the facebook page mentioned using BlueCats patchwork with Parallel instances of Capacitor to basically make a multiband Airwindows Processor (EQ, Sat, Compression) Have you considered doing something like this in native? I find that I'm getting a ton out of parallel processing lately.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
Gear Head
 
Antagon1st's Avatar
 

Is the best use for StudioTan on the mixbus? (Where I've been using it for every mix).

If so, where do instantiate the new DitherFloat? Do I use it in place of StudioTan or can it be used afterwards?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
Gear Addict
 

I think DitherFloat is more of a demonstration that a functional plugin... Not sure though, that's just what I got from the livestream video.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon1st View Post
Is the best use for StudioTan on the mixbus? (Where I've been using it for every mix).

If so, where do instantiate the new DitherFloat? Do I use it in place of StudioTan or can it be used afterwards?
Use StudioTan and all air dithers last in the chain, nothing more after it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon1st View Post
Is the best use for StudioTan on the mixbus? (Where I've been using it for every mix).

If so, where do instantiate the new DitherFloat? Do I use it in place of StudioTan or can it be used afterwards?
Yeah, don't use that, it's not out yet and it's not like StudioTan.

DitherFloat (next to be released as VST, the AU is just a preview) is a demo. Think of it like a bitcrusher? Instead of bitcrushing audio to a low fixed point format, it does this:

-add huge huge number
-convert to 32 bit float (the bitcrush part)
-subtract same huge huge number.

That works because the granularity of floating point numbers scales up to make them bigger. You're listening to the same numbers, it's just that with superquiet audio you can store numbers like

0.0000000000000005
0.0000000000000006
0.0000000000000007

And then if you make it huge giant numbers you can only store

100000000000005
100000000000006
100000000000007

and there's no such thing as

100000000000007.000000000000000000000000000000001

DitherFloat is a bitcrusher that includes the floating point dither, but it only shows that for use with the bitcrusher. It would do you no good on your mix! To have the floating point dither be useful on your plugins, it needs to be built into the plugins as the method for converting from long double to float.

So I am.

All of them. (hundreds of them)

I'm going to do another long work session on Windows VSTs today, and then the Linux ones will still be a lot of work, but more automated. I think I'll be done by Sunday. After DitherFloat proper, and the near-total update of all plugins, is done, I can resume work on Pafnuty, which is next and will have the floating point dither
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post

All of them. (hundreds of them)
Does that include plugins like Atmosphere and the last couple of Channels where the new noise shaping was part of the "sales" pitch?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
Gear Head
 
Antagon1st's Avatar
 

Thanks, guys! Chris, that description was perfect for me to comprehend! You are appreciated!

StudioTan, it is. I like all 3, DTM may be my favourite, for Hip Hop/R&B production. Airwindows is nothing short of brilliance!

Any news on a Console6? Too soon? I know that's it's been just over a year, but I'd like to know if that tech is developing any further?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
Gear Head
 

Really looking forward to that monster update on the Windows VSTs and I'm really pumped about how it could make everything sound EVEN BETTER...

I just did a crazy big gain-matched ABX test this morning with several variations of the AW summing consoles, Slate VCC and Waves NLS, each dithered with DMT at the end...

Unexpectedly, 10 out of 10 attempts I picked C5Raw + DMT... So this one is THE final frontier for me, it simply seems to decimate everything else, at least in the context of what I'm doing here (SAW 85-92 and U.F.Orb type of sounds)

Isn't this the initial "broken" (for the lack of a better term) version of Console5 that was released around Christmas 2017 or something? All the other consoles seemed so much harder to distinguish from one another, but this one seems to colour the sound in a crazy good way that I've never heard in plugins before.

Sorry to derail, just wanted to throw this out there, as I am completely blown away.

Last edited by mrgs; 4 weeks ago at 06:27 PM.. Reason: Formatting to prevent misleading auto-linking :p
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgs View Post
I just did a crazy big gain-matched ABX test this morning with several variations of the AW summing consoles, Slate VCC and Waves NLS, each dithered with DMT at the end...

Unexpectedly, 10 out of 10 attempts I picked C5Raw + DMT... So this one is THE final frontier for me, it simply seems to decimate everything else, at least in the context of what I'm doing here (SAW 85-92 and U.F.Orb type of sounds)

Isn't this the initial "broken" (for the lack of a better term) version of Console5 that was released around Christmas 2017 or something? All the other consoles seemed so much harder to distinguish from one another, but this one seems to colour the sound in a crazy good way that I've never heard in plugins before.
Test for DC offset. If you're doing ABX tests you're identifying 'different' and the thing is, both with C5Raw and DMT, these are not necessarily subtle effects.

Console5Raw does have that original 'try to encode/decode slew as well as amplitude', unaltered. It's a good sound, but it can generate huge amounts of DC offset given sawtooth-y waves so be careful with it, and if there's 50 dB of DC offset it's no wonder you can pick it out in an ABX test.

Same with DMT. Remember, it's not really a dither, it's 'EQ implemented through truncation' which should already be obvious, and then there's noise shaping which is the other part of its sound. So this is NOT as subtle as the difference between a dither and truncation. Earlier DMT produced huge noise shaping spikes which are part of the sound but ruined people's overlimiting. This one just clips the samples to prevent overs, but the noise shaping on top of the EQ is still making BIG sound changes. It's no wonder you can tell the difference: StudioTan ain't necessarily subtle. It's meant to make a change to the sound (NJAD inside it is the closest to 'transparent', that's its role)

I'm glad StudioTan is working out for people. It won't change with the floating point dither release, because it works like a dither itself (and is meant to export to fixed point formats at 16 and 24 bits). So if you use it now, you're getting the 'final version'.

Running some errands, and then I'm going to see how far I can get through the WinVST updates
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
Test for DC offset. If you're doing ABX tests you're identifying 'different' and the thing is, both with C5Raw and DMT, these are not necessarily subtle effects.

Console5Raw does have that original 'try to encode/decode slew as well as amplitude', unaltered. It's a good sound, but it can generate huge amounts of DC offset given sawtooth-y waves so be careful with it, and if there's 50 dB of DC offset it's no wonder you can pick it out in an ABX test.

Same with DMT. Remember, it's not really a dither, it's 'EQ implemented through truncation' which should already be obvious, and then there's noise shaping which is the other part of its sound. So this is NOT as subtle as the difference between a dither and truncation. Earlier DMT produced huge noise shaping spikes which are part of the sound but ruined people's overlimiting. This one just clips the samples to prevent overs, but the noise shaping on top of the EQ is still making BIG sound changes. It's no wonder you can tell the difference: StudioTan ain't necessarily subtle. It's meant to make a change to the sound (NJAD inside it is the closest to 'transparent', that's its role)

I'm glad StudioTan is working out for people. It won't change with the floating point dither release, because it works like a dither itself (and is meant to export to fixed point formats at 16 and 24 bits). So if you use it now, you're getting the 'final version'.

Running some errands, and then I'm going to see how far I can get through the WinVST updates
Huh, that's interesting, thanks for the insight Chris! I'm checking into it now and there is indeed DC Offset, not a whole load of it, but it is there. And the tunes are not that sawwy, they're subby more-like.

I've put a 10Hz HPF brickwall in high lin-phase in Pro-Q3 on the rendered file and when I gain match this, I can still pick it out, due to that crunchiness I like. Please tell me though if there are any caveats to doing this that would still eliminate the point of ABX, I'm not an expert on all of that as I'm mostly just a musician with a practical interest in engineering

Regarding DMT, I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that I'm actually using the standalone one that people reported to have overs on, not the one in StudioTan. No compression or limiting on the 2buss, I've got about 6dB of headroom before any clipping would ensue.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
Gear Head
 

what you gotta sort of do is adjust the 'center' control of each instance of the raw plugin, so that the DC offset is slowwwwly pulled back to the center at about the same speed it's introduced into each track. it's different depending on each channel's material so you'll need to tweak a bit, there, but once you get it figured out it's pretty much "set it and forget it"

when it's all working together, C5Raw sounds sublime and the difference is almost impossible to confuse in an A/B test.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
Lives for gear
 

StudioTan - NJAD has been on my 'Monitoring Chain' as I work [32fp]. My favorite to this point.

I move it to the end of my 'Processing Chain' when printing the final Distribution file [usually 24-bit, or CD-16].

This has been an interesting topic to follow [along with the other 'dither' thread].

My previous dither choices always left me disappointed comparing CD-16 to my 'work' copies.

Now ... with ST-NJAD [24, 16], the conversions sound the closest to what I heard during the Mastering process.

THANKS for the outstanding work/concept you've created, ChrisJ.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #53
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepCircle View Post
what you gotta sort of do is adjust the 'center' control of each instance of the raw plugin, so that the DC offset is slowwwwly pulled back to the center at about the same speed it's introduced into each track. it's different depending on each channel's material so you'll need to tweak a bit, there, but once you get it figured out it's pretty much "set it and forget it"

when it's all working together, C5Raw sounds sublime and the difference is almost impossible to confuse in an A/B test.
Whoa, I didn't even know this control was there to begin with. Ableton Live doesn't display the values of GUI-less plugins unless manually engaged to do so. I just figured it doesn't have any controls, similarly to the other renditions of C5. Cheers SleepCircle!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #54
Gear Head
 

Yeah. Like, you don't want to overdo the "center" control because it will (very slowly) pull stuff back to the center regardless of if there's a DC offset or not, and if you crank it up really high this 'undermining' behavior will start acting a bit like a high-pass filter.

EDIT: (You don't have to be TOO worried about the high-pass effect. I keep usually set 'center' between .1 and .3 and I've never noticed any really savage bass loss. If you do notice something though, you can probably compensate with a bit of tactical EQing or by using Airwindows' FathomFive, which was designed to work with the Console system in the first place.) /EDIT



Incidentally, Chris. When I'm rendering stems or getting stuff ready for mastering, I tend to render them to 32-bit FP, because if I do that then I can losslessly compress them into wavpack files to save space and to send stuff across the internet faster, (wavpack doesn't support 64-bit for whatever reason.)

Reaper does all its calculations internally at 64-bit but does not, as far as I know, dither when it converts stuff down to 32-bit FP. Would it be possible to use the final non-demo version (when it comes out) of floatdither to do that? Or would there be some hideous problem where the plugin converts it to 32-bit FP, and this being cast back UP into 64-bit (as it leaves the plugin) would alter how this was represented, and then it'd get truncated back down to 32 bit FP, introducing new problems?

Could I use (the final non-demo version of) floatdither, or should I save at 64-bit? Or (more likely) would a single truncation from 64-bit to 32-bit FP not be worth all this bother in the first place?

(edit: i mean DitherFloat, not FloatDither—sorry.)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #55
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepCircle View Post
Could I use (the final non-demo version of) floatdither, or should I save at 64-bit? Or (more likely) would a single truncation from 64-bit to 32-bit FP not be worth all this bother in the first place?
Huh. I guess FloatDither WOULD do that. If you're on a 64-bit buss, the other Airwindows plugs will be dithering to 64 bit… but yeah, set FloatDither to 0 offset and full dither and I guess it would indeed be dithering to 32 bit in spite of that not being the buss.

Old 3 weeks ago
  #56
Good work, as always, C!

BTW, the 24 bit truncation sounded great, in your video!!

Please excuse my ignorance, but I have a question that I am guessing is fairly stupid...

What happens if a parallel chain is built, and used these non-dithering-but-like-dithers in parallel??? I'm guessing, badness?? Slap uLaw's around them and sum them with PurestConsole & PurestChannel?? Very much badness? Might lead to sounds similar to Merzbow or Bitstream.

Now that I hear this tone shaping stuff going on... it makes me want to push several channels of non-dithering on silent tracks... sum them up, and then using sharp and sudden expansion with a transient designer, to grab little transients of dither noise... and then create a drum rack out of them... and do further strange manipulations with bit crushing and uLaw... Bit Sonic or Blipvert?

PS: Congratulations on furthering NotJustAnotherDither!!! Not many companies would develop a tool that is 10 times better than the 2nd best similar tool... and then improve it way before any one else catches up!! You... The... Man!!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #57
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theMuzzl3 View Post
Good work, as always, C!

BTW, the 24 bit truncation sounded great, in your video!!

Please excuse my ignorance, but I have a question that I am guessing is fairly stupid...

What happens if a parallel chain is built, and used these non-dithering-but-like-dithers in parallel??? I'm guessing, badness?? Slap uLaw's around them and sum them with PurestConsole & PurestChannel?? Very much badness? Might lead to sounds similar to Merzbow or Bitstream.

Now that I hear this tone shaping stuff going on... it makes me want to push several channels of non-dithering on silent tracks... sum them up, and then using sharp and sudden expansion with a transient designer, to grab little transients of dither noise... and then create a drum rack out of them... and do further strange manipulations with bit crushing and uLaw... Bit Sonic or Blipvert?

PS: Congratulations on furthering NotJustAnotherDither!!! Not many companies would develop a tool that is 10 times better than the 2nd best similar tool... and then improve it way before any one else catches up!! You... The... Man!!!
That sounds awesome!

Something you might like is this: Take a sound, a track or a drum break, whatever. Duplicate the channel a few times and bounce each track in place (or out at 24bit). Then, flip the phase on the original clean track and solo one of the bounced tracks. Boost both tracks together, through an aux/grouping track, with BitShiftGain. You will get some absolutely crazy crazy sounds from the differences between the different tracks with dithers. Then bounce that out as a sample. Try it
Old 3 weeks ago
  #58
Gear Addict
 

Oh yeah, try DMT in parallel at 15% mix for a subtle enhancement on the master channel. Have used it in mastering to good effect.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepCircle View Post

Incidentally, Chris. When I'm rendering stems or getting stuff ready for mastering, I tend to render them to 32-bit FP, because if I do that then I can losslessly compress them into wavpack files to save space and to send stuff across the internet faster, (wavpack doesn't support 64-bit for whatever reason.)

Reaper does all its calculations internally at 64-bit but does not, as far as I know, dither when it converts stuff down to 32-bit FP. Would it be possible to use the final non-demo version (when it comes out) of floatdither to do that? Or would there be some hideous problem where the plugin converts it to 32-bit FP, and this being cast back UP into 64-bit (as it leaves the plugin) would alter how this was represented, and then it'd get truncated back down to 32 bit FP, introducing new problems?

Could I use (the final non-demo version of) floatdither, or should I save at 64-bit? Or (more likely) would a single truncation from 64-bit to 32-bit FP not be worth all this bother in the first place?
I'm in the same boat. Good questions.

If what you're suggesting will work (without problems), this single plugin that does floatdither, following every 64 bit plugin... would be super sexy. It would be another reason why AirWindows will crush in many possible A/B comparison/shoot-outs in the future... even if some DAW's are doing a floating dither with less perfect algorithms.

Interested as to whether Chris will call it SleepDither or CircleDither... or FloatCircleDither... or just FloatDither.

In the past, I was telling my people to render stems at 32 bit floating point, with no dither... so this is way better. I am unsure if rendering to 32 bit floating with triangular dither or with out dither is better... but I guess I won't need to worry about that any more.

One less problem for me, because Chris solves **** without being asked to!
Quote:
Originally Posted by V4nger View Post
That sounds awesome!

Something you might like is this: Take a sound, a track or a drum break, whatever. Duplicate the channel a few times and bounce each track in place (or out at 24bit). Then, flip the phase on the original clean track and solo one of the bounced tracks. Boost both tracks together, through an aux/grouping track, with BitShiftGain. You will get some absolutely crazy crazy sounds from the differences between the different tracks with dithers. Then bounce that out as a sample. Try it
Great idea!!! I had an idea that involved uLaw, something else, and phase shifting (polarity flipping, rather). I think DAW's call it "phase flip," mistakenly... all though I've been known to be at least half way wrong, at least half of the time!

I might start live streaming tonight, while I attempt this experiment.

I was going to do EQ plugin testing & shootouts, but heck with that nonsense... maybe I'll do EQ shootouts with uLaw's around them, at some point within this experiment.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #60
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagon1st View Post
Thanks, guys! Chris, that description was perfect for me to comprehend! You are appreciated!

StudioTan, it is. I like all 3, DTM may be my favourite, for Hip Hop/R&B production. Airwindows is nothing short of brilliance!

Any news on a Console6? Too soon? I know that's it's been just over a year, but I'd like to know if that tech is developing any further?
Try PDConsole! Amazing.
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