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Warm Audio introduces the WA-251 Tube Condenser Microphone Condenser Microphones
Old 6 days ago
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
I wonder if 3U supplied the capsule?
Chris
I’ve heard from a couple sources that they are indeed 3u capsules. The “Australian capsule designer” warm references on their website is Guosheng.
Old 6 days ago
  #122
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Bingo! Chris
Old 5 days ago
  #123
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCat View Post
capacitors can vary wildly in price from a few cents to hundreds of dollars.
Ain't that the truth! I recapped a 2-channel amp earlier this year and the total cost was just over $3k. But caps matter. I'm hoping Warm found a sweet spot for their price vs. performance goals.
Old 5 days ago
  #124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgr View Post
On the assumption that folks considering this are looking for a lower-than-1000 251 mic, anyone seen/heard/stumbled upon this?

N-SONIC NS-251 Tube Condenser Microphone



– Astound Sound
I just uploaded some sound samples of recordings I've done with the N-SONIC NS-251. One is just a stereo drum overhead track, recorded flat through the Antelope Audio preamps on my interface at my home studio.

The other is a full session where I used five of them on a singer and piano player, one on vocal, two on the Steinway Grand, and two room mics. Granted that we were just in a church next to a freeway with the AC on and other people in the building, it came out pretty good. In the session you get all the dry signals as recorded. Additionally, I've uploaded my mix, which I mixed on a Heritage MCM-8 summing mixer with N-SONIC N73EQs loaded in it, and I compressed the vocals and the stereo mix with Alctron CP540 compressors.

Box
Old 5 days ago
  #125
MYN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelthemusician View Post
I just uploaded some sound samples of recordings I've done with the N-SONIC NS-251. One is just a stereo drum overhead track, recorded flat through the Antelope Audio preamps on my interface at my home studio.

The other is a full session where I used five of them on a singer and piano player, one on vocal, two on the Steinway Grand, and two room mics. Granted that we were just in a church next to a freeway with the AC on and other people in the building, it came out pretty good. In the session you get all the dry signals as recorded. Additionally, I've uploaded my mix, which I mixed on a Heritage MCM-8 summing mixer with N-SONIC N73EQs loaded in it, and I compressed the vocals and the stereo mix with Alctron CP540 compressors.

Box
Noel,
Does that Alctron mic really have 32db of self noise? (like it says on your site) Because that would be awesome if I wanted everyone to believe I always recorded my stuff at the beach.
Old 4 days ago
  #126
MYN
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So, this is interesting.

Also again makes me wonder how much creamier the WA-251 would sound modded with a PIO coupling cap.

And of course, theoretically and historically, a 12 and a 251, while very close cousins, are not exactly what you would call an apples-to-apples comparison (more like apples-to-pears).

The Flea 12 is nearly 5x the price of the WA-251.
Old 4 days ago
  #127
Lives for gear
 

IMHO I know it's subjective, but the WA-251 and WA-47 don't sound that much alike to a "real" Elam 251 or Neumann 47 respectively. They are very nice sounding LDC's though. I do wonder how further vocal processing, might get them closer.
Chris
Old 4 days ago
  #128
Possibly the worst demonstration I've ever heard. If you're going to the trouble use a studio.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MYN View Post


So, this is interesting.

Also again makes me wonder how much creamier the WA-251 would sound modded with a PIO coupling cap.

And of course, theoretically and historically, a 12 and a 251, while very close cousins, are not exactly what you would call an apples-to-apples comparison (more like apples-to-pears).

The Flea 12 is nearly 5x the price of the WA-251.
Old 4 days ago
  #129
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dariva's Avatar
I’d like to see a 3U Audio GZ251 vs the WA251 comparison. I have the GZ251fet and I find it smooth sounding, with quite nicely extending high range. I really like it as my main mic and I don’t fight harshness often with it ( a lot less than with a U87ai I used to work with). May be Guosheng has paired his capsule with the right elements for a smoother response, or the fact mine is not the tube version.

EDIT: I have to add, I am always recording through a Comp 3A nowadays, with the side chain knob turned fully clockwise. It’s a pairing the works really great here.
Old 4 days ago
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
Possibly the worst demonstration I've ever heard. If you're going to the trouble use a studio.
It's far pretty from being the worst mic demonstration I've ever heard.
You must check these out and lower you standard (and have a good laugh):
YouTube
YouTube
Old 4 days ago
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Moon View Post
It's far pretty from being the worst mic demonstration I've ever heard.
You must check these out and lower you standard (and have a good laugh):
YouTube
YouTube
But he's won multiple Emmy awards! I've started doing some video reviews and the biggest thing I've had to learn to do is talk less. I don't know why it's so hard, I'm a pretty quiet person so I think I try to compensate. I'm getting better, but I still talk to much. No one wants to hear me talk...
Old 4 days ago
  #132
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Jackie Moon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
But he's won multiple Emmy awards! I've started doing some video reviews and the biggest thing I've had to learn to do is talk less. I don't know why it's so hard, I'm a pretty quiet person so I think I try to compensate. I'm getting better, but I still talk to much. No one wants to hear me talk...
Old 4 days ago
  #133
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYN View Post


So, this is interesting.

Also again makes me wonder how much creamier the WA-251 would sound modded with a PIO coupling cap.

And of course, theoretically and historically, a 12 and a 251, while very close cousins, are not exactly what you would call an apples-to-apples comparison (more like apples-to-pears).

The Flea 12 is nearly 5x the price of the WA-251.
Sort of makes me wonder how a Warm would sound with a Tim Campbell capsule also. Or any other high end CK12. That would be a much cheaper mic than a Flea, but possibly getting into that zone of quality.
Old 2 days ago
  #134
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYN View Post
Noel,
Does that Alctron mic really have 32db of self noise? (like it says on your site) Because that would be awesome if I wanted everyone to believe I always recorded my stuff at the beach.
I think the sound samples speak for themselves. I prefer to use my ears rather than concern myself with specs, but since you are a V.O. artist I can see why you would be more concerned. I will talk about the specs though, for those who may be scared off before even taking a listen. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on this topic, but from what I've read on Neumann's website most manufacturers will give an A-weighted self noise spec, which is based on how our ears hear and that also happens to produce lower numbers. The spec on the Alctron mic did not specify an A-weighted measurement, so I would assume that it wasn't and would naturally be a higher number than if they measured it A-weighted. Also according to Neumann, the calculation of self noise should be Signal-to-noise (db-A) = 94 dB – self-noise (dB-A). If we assumed that the specified signal-to-noise ratio of 72 is correct you could use the calculation 72+x=94 to determine the self-noise, or 94-72=x. That calculation actually comes out to 22dB. That's 10dB less than the supposed 32dB self noise level, but again, that calculation is based on A-weighted measurements and the measurement we have probably isn't A-weighted in the first place. Basically what I'm saying here is we don't know how the manufacturer came up with this spec, and it's probably not accurate or at least not comparable to other manufacturers' A-weighted specs. I can use my ears though to figure out that the noise levels are reasonable enough to use in a mix. In fact, I'm currently using them as drum overheads on a client's whole record and I'm stoked about the sound.

Hopefully soon I'll add some more sound samples, and perhaps I'll have a side-by-side comparison with the WA251 at some point.
Old 2 days ago
  #135
MYN
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelthemusician View Post
I think the sound samples speak for themselves. I prefer to use my ears rather than concern myself with specs, but since you are a V.O. artist I can see why you would be more concerned. I will talk about the specs though, for those who may be scared off before even taking a listen. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on this topic, but from what I've read on Neumann's website most manufacturers will give an A-weighted self noise spec, which is based on how our ears hear and that also happens to produce lower numbers. The spec on the Alctron mic did not specify an A-weighted measurement, so I would assume that it wasn't and would naturally be a higher number than if they measured it A-weighted. Also according to Neumann, the calculation of self noise should be Signal-to-noise (db-A) = 94 dB – self-noise (dB-A). If we assumed that the specified signal-to-noise ratio of 72 is correct you could use the calculation 72+x=94 to determine the self-noise, or 94-72=x. That calculation actually comes out to 22dB. That's 10dB less than the supposed 32dB self noise level, but again, that calculation is based on A-weighted measurements and the measurement we have probably isn't A-weighted in the first place. Basically what I'm saying here is we don't know how the manufacturer came up with this spec, and it's probably not accurate or at least not comparable to other manufacturers' A-weighted specs. I can use my ears though to figure out that the noise levels are reasonable enough to use in a mix. In fact, I'm currently using them as drum overheads on a client's whole record and I'm stoked about the sound.

Hopefully soon I'll add some more sound samples, and perhaps I'll have a side-by-side comparison with the WA251 at some point.
Thanks Noel. I'm just yanking yer crank over it. I have a lot of respect for what you've been doing, independently selling the Alctron stuff. I'd definitely be interested in hearing the comparison with the WA251 if you get a chance. down the road.

It appears both mics share the same Alctron body and power supply chassis, so I'm curious what the mic circuit looks like and how much, if at all, it actually differs from the old HST-11a/Apex 460. Or did they just take the HST-11a circuit and pop a more appropriate CEK-12 capsule on top of it with the more stylish metalwork?
Old 2 days ago
  #136
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYN View Post
Thanks Noel. I'm just yanking yer crank over it. I have a lot of respect for what you've been doing, independently selling the Alctron stuff. I'd definitely be interested in hearing the comparison with the WA251 if you get a chance. down the road.

It appears both mics share the same Alctron body and power supply chassis, so I'm curious what the mic circuit looks like and how much, if at all, it actually differs from the old HST-11a/Apex 460. Or did they just take the HST-11a circuit and pop a more appropriate CEK-12 capsule on top of it with the more stylish metalwork?
Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. Just had to say something in response because these forums have a big impact on whether or not my products sell and I hadn’t even noticed that spec before you said something.

I actually happen to have a new T11a sitting around here, and in addition to the T190/NS-251’s nicer packaging/case, fancier body and power supply, and much nicer shockmount, the circuitry looks quite a bit different. I especially noticed these much fatter resistors. Just looks a lot better inside this model. It also uses a 34mm capsule and 7025A tube instead of a 32mm capsule and 12ax7 tube. Not feeling like popping the power supplies open at the moment, but I’ll try to do that too at some point.
Attached Thumbnails
Warm Audio introduces the WA-251 Tube Condenser Microphone-aa62a8d4-e8c4-41e4-a986-82badff12561.jpg   Warm Audio introduces the WA-251 Tube Condenser Microphone-6fd6bfe8-ca64-46bc-a819-de48299eb222.jpg  
Old 2 days ago
  #137
MYN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelthemusician View Post
Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. Just had to say something in response because these forums have a big impact on whether or not my products sell and I hadn’t even noticed that spec before you said something.

I actually happen to have a new T11a sitting around here, and in addition to the T190/NS-251’s nicer packaging/case, fancier body and power supply, and much nicer shockmount, the circuitry looks quite a bit different. I especially noticed these much fatter resistors. Just looks a lot better inside this model. It also uses a 34mm capsule and 7025A tube instead of a 32mm capsule and 12ax7 tube. Not feeling like popping the power supplies open at the moment, but I’ll try to do that too at some point.
Thank you, Noel for taking the time to share those photos. I think it's safe to say that the NS-251 houses a build that looks far superior to the old "modder's fave", T11a. I also understand that they changed the transformer from the old T11a to a newer design that addresses previous concerns about low-end distortion.

At only $399, the NS-251 seems to be a very interesting specimen and it wouldn't surprise me if you were able to move quite a few units if a future shootout against the WA251 proved favorable.
Old 2 days ago
  #138
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelthemusician View Post
I just uploaded some sound samples of recordings I've done with the N-SONIC NS-251. One is just a stereo drum overhead track, recorded flat through the Antelope Audio preamps on my interface at my home studio.

The other is a full session where I used five of them on a singer and piano player, one on vocal, two on the Steinway Grand, and two room mics. Granted that we were just in a church next to a freeway with the AC on and other people in the building, it came out pretty good. In the session you get all the dry signals as recorded. Additionally, I've uploaded my mix, which I mixed on a Heritage MCM-8 summing mixer with N-SONIC N73EQs loaded in it, and I compressed the vocals and the stereo mix with Alctron CP540 compressors.

Box
I’m more interested in your thoughts on the Alctron compressors
Old 5 hours ago
  #139
Here for the gear
 

In the WA251, I switch the tube for a NOS 6072 (12AY7) black plate almost sure those are made in the 50s/60s from GE. I couldn't make a blind test, but what I feel is that the sound is better, more organic, less harsh, everything sounds glorious. It's as silent maybe even quieter than before, I can't be sure. I am happy as it is and may not even bother to switch the output coupling cap...
That GE tube sure is not a reputable audio tube (GE brand being the lesser brand in my eye) but it's very nice sounding I think. the 6072 are noiseless 12AY7 basically.

For what it's worth I put a legendary tube inside the WA47. I found a NOS windmill getter Raytheon 5751 (orange label), and the sound is just so beautiful, more 3D, more organic again. For me it's clear the sound is so much better, I won't bother with the JJ anymore on the WA47.
I feel so lucky because of the price I paid for it. It's just one of those audio tubes that cost an arm and a leg nowadays. Happy lucky tube search!
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