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Kazrog releases KClip 3 Dynamics Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
My question is based on the humble attitude, my eagernes to learn more.
I own the KClip2 Pro as well, I use it only occasianally, because its very CPU-hogg.

My usual choises are either the Ozone 8 adv. maxmizer (IRC III or IV/modern), or the Fabfilter Pro-L2.

I have to admit, that in both of those limiter/maximizers, I useally run the threshold/input to the ceiling, i.e. ceiling in clipping time to time.

Therefore I´m most interested in the developers opinion here: according to him, I have used my limiters/maxmizers in the wrong way all the time.
Right gotcha... I am also looking fwd to Kazrog jumping in.
Old 1 week ago
  #92
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Does anyone notice that sound changes in a more "midrangy" one switching in multiband mode, with the same wideband algorithms (i.e. CRISPY)?
Old 1 week ago
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
How do you know its up to the ceiling, if you don't get a hit to it?
It's simple:
  1. Turn off the Ceiling
  2. If you're going above 0.0 dB on your master meter, turn down the Out Gain in KClip until that's no longer happening.
  3. Turn the Ceiling back on.
  4. Be Happy.



To clarify - it's not the end of the world if you clip the ceiling here and there by small amounts with the occasional transient spike (after all, it's there for a reason.) I mainly want to make sure that people aren't leaning hard into the ceiling as a crutch, because then you'll definitely get some aliasing.
Old 1 week ago
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddysgroove View Post
Does anyone notice that sound changes in a more "midrangy" one switching in multiband mode, with the same wideband algorithms (i.e. CRISPY)?
It's certainly possible, depending on your levels, that different algorithms will react to program material differently in multiband mode than they do in single band mode. This is the nature of nonlinear effects. Adjust accordingly.
Old 1 week ago
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
It's certainly possible, depending on your levels, that different algorithms will react to program material differently in multiband mode than they do in single band mode. Adjust accordingly.
I mean without ANY level/gain changing in the plug, and about - 15 dbfs before the plug itself. Maybe are the crossovers changing the sound in multiband mode?
Old 1 week ago
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddysgroove View Post
I mean without ANY level/gain changing in the plug, and about - 15 dbfs before the plug itself. Maybe are the crossovers changing the sound in multiband mode?
No, the crossovers are extremely flat and well optimized. Unless you're in Smooth mode with Soften set to 0%, you're going to hear differences even at -15dBFS between the different algorithms in multiband mode vs. single band mode.

In multiband mode, KClip 3 is 4 instances of KClip running in parallel, summed together at the end of processing. This can and will create differences in how the algorithms react, even at very low levels. It's the nature of nonlinear processing, whether digital or analog.
Old 1 week ago
  #97
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Ok, but this should not happen unless you're clipping the signal and causing the nonlinearity effects you're talking about. If i have the plug driven by a decent low signal (-15 dbfs) with i. e. crispy algorithm, wideband mode, everything set properly for not driving the plug (threshold, quality 1, dry/wet, mid/side, ceiling) and then i switch to multiband with same crisp algorithm on all bands, no gain everywhere and same settings than wideband.. It should sound the same, period. Unless the crossover filters are changing the sound, which i definitely suspect. Please investigate because this is not the way it should work in multiband mode.
Old 1 week ago
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddysgroove View Post
Ok, but this should not happen unless you're clipping the signal and causing the nonlinearity effects you're talking about. If i have the plug driven by a decent low signal (-15 dbfs) with i. e. crispy algorithm, wideband mode, everything set properly for not driving the plug (threshold, quality 1, dry/wet, mid/side, ceiling) and then i switch to multiband with same crisp algorithm on all bands, no gain everywhere and same settings than wideband.. It should sound the same, period. Unless the crossover filters are changing the sound, which i definitely suspect. Please investigate because this is not the way it should work in multiband mode.
It's because of the soft clipping curves - they affect the signal even before clipping occurs. These will react to different frequencies differently, hence they sound different in multiband mode, because the harmonics are being generated from different fundamentals in parallel.

I know this is counter-intuitive, but it's how this kind of processing works.
Old 1 week ago
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
It's simple:
  1. Turn off the Ceiling
  2. If you're going above 0.0 dB on your master meter, turn down the Out Gain in KClip until that's no longer happening.
  3. Turn the Ceiling back on.
  4. Be Happy.



To clarify - it's not the end of the world if you clip the ceiling here and there by small amounts with the occasional transient spike (after all, it's there for a reason.) I mainly want to make sure that people aren't leaning hard into the ceiling as a crutch, because then you'll definitely get some aliasing.
Does this concern maximizers in generally, or is this workflow your product-specific? In your flow chart, KClip has two clippers, the last one is the "ceiling clipper". Does this make your product special in that sense?

Last edited by Harry_O; 1 week ago at 11:56 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
Does this concern maximizer in generally, or is this workflow your product-specific? In your flow chart, KClip has to clippers, the last one is the "ceiling clipper". Does this make your product special?
I know that VladG and the updated TDR Limiter 6 implements the same idea, as does Flux Alchemist.
Old 1 week ago
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
Does this concern maximizers in generally, or is this workflow your product-specific? In your flow chart, KClip has two clippers, the last one is the "ceiling clipper". Does this make your product special in that sense?
No. As I mention in the video, almost every other clipper on the market does the same thing, whether or not they tell you about it. The crazy thing to me is not telling users about this, and not giving them a choice - if you push into those clippers, there's almost no point in using oversampling when you've got that many overages going into hard clipping at the native sample rate.

Of course, by providing that knowledge and that choice, it actually requires people to learn something, which is oftentimes too much to ask.

Last edited by Kazrog; 1 week ago at 06:00 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrog View Post
No. As I mention in the video, almost every other clipper on the market does the same thing, whether or not they tell you about it. The crazy thing to me is not telling users about this, and not giving them a choice - if you push into those clippers, there's almost no point in using oversampling when you've got that many overages going into hard clipping at the native sample rate.

Of course, by providing that knowledge and that choice, it actually requires people to learn something, which is oftentimes too much to ask.
Good to know - I've always said, every day someone shows you are wrong, is a good day. Because you have learned something new...
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