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Antelope Audio announces DISCRETE 8 interface and accompanying modelling mics
Old 6 days ago
  #181
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
Poor Marcel’s going to be dealing with what is a likely leak/mistake. Won’t quote the post just in case.
We just decided to delay the official announcement a bit. You can consider it "officially leaked", I suppose. You'll hear more soon.
Old 6 days ago
  #182
Gear Head
Hi Marcel. Can the modeling be used on the analog inputs of the Amari? Also are the ADC and DAC chips the same as in the Goilith? Thanks for your response.
Old 6 days ago
  #183
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiowreck View Post
Hi Marcel. Can the modeling be used on the analog inputs of the Amari? Also are the ADC and DAC chips the same as in the Goilith? Thanks for your response.
He said yes in the vblog.
Old 5 days ago
  #184
Gear Maniac
 

Question with the included FX

I like these new interfaces but am confused about the FX.

1. What is the difference between the basic and premium FX package? Is it only the fact that you can use the plugs on every channel while tracking or does the premium package actually include more/different plugins?

2. Do the Discrete interfaces include DSP to run plugins?

3. When mixing can I use all of the plugins - as many as I want in my session without the interface (are they just like regular AAX plugins I can use?

I think maybe a comparison chart from Antelope might easily clear up some of the questions about the FX? The units look great by the way!

Have a blessed day!
Old 5 days ago
  #185
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJandKT View Post
Question with the included FX

I like these new interfaces but am confused about the FX.

1. What is the difference between the basic and premium FX package? Is it only the fact that you can use the plugs on every channel while tracking or does the premium package actually include more/different plugins?

2. Do the Discrete interfaces include DSP to run plugins?

3. When mixing can I use all of the plugins - as many as I want in my session without the interface (are they just like regular AAX plugins I can use?

I think maybe a comparison chart from Antelope might easily clear up some of the questions about the FX? The units look great by the way!

Have a blessed day!
The FX are described as Hardware Based Audio Effects. The Hardware part is that they run on the FPGA inside all of Antelope Audio's pro Audio interfaces. The FPGA is programmed to provide DSP functionality to run the effects.

That means the effects do not run on the CPU of your host DAW or any other DSP whether AVID HDX, UAD2, or Waves SoundGrid Servers. (No Native or 3rd Party Processing)

All the Discrete Interfaces have the FPGA needed to run the Premium AFX.

The difference between basic and premium is on the number of processing channels you can use. Basic limits you to 2 channels, premium gives you the maximum of 16 channels. Both include all the effects.

Blessed day too.
Old 5 days ago
  #186
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimGitz View Post
The FX are described as Hardware Based Audio Effects. The Hardware part is that they run on the FPGA inside all of Antelope Audio's pro Audio interfaces. The FPGA is programmed to provide DSP functionality to run the effects.

That means the effects do not run on the CPU of your host DAW or any other DSP whether AVID HDX, UAD2, or Waves SoundGrid Servers. (No Native or 3rd Party Processing)

All the Discrete Interfaces have the FPGA needed to run the Premium AFX.

The difference between basic and premium is on the number of processing channels you can use. Basic limits you to 2 channels, premium gives you the maximum of 16 channels. Both include all the effects.

Blessed day too.
Is it just two channels when recording a/d, with processing allowed for more channels when routing between DAW and interface come mix time?
Very Pro Tools LE-like if we’re only ever allowed to use two channels worth when routing digitally.
Old 5 days ago
  #187
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
Is it just two channels when recording a/d, with processing allowed for more channels when routing between DAW and interface come mix time?
Very Pro Tools LE-like if we’re only ever allowed to use two channels worth when routing digitally.
This is what I'm trying to determine as well. I understand you can only record 2 channels with the AFX with the basic package. Does that also mean you'll only be able to run 2 instances of the plugin within your DAW?
Old 5 days ago
  #188
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Orion Studio has 12 mic pre/line inputs, Discrete 8 has 8.
Orion Studio has 16 line outs, Discrete 8 has 8.
Orion Studio has 2 stereo A/B switching monitor outs, Discrete 8 has 1 stereo monitor out.
Orion Studio comes with the full "Premium" 16 AFX channel strips, Discrete 8 has 2 channels of AFX in the "Basic" version (the Premium has 16 too at $1995).
Orion Studio has 124db dynamic range A/D converter chips, Discrete has 121db A/D. (very slight difference, but still worth mentioning)

Hope this helps position the two products better.
Thanks. Would the preamp quality be different in the Discrete 8 vs Orion studio? My goal is to have something that sounds a lot different than my UR824.

How do the inputs handle high gain and low gain mics? I don't see a pad on there.
Old 5 days ago
  #189
Gear Maniac
 

On the Discrete Interfaces as with all the other interfaces you can use all the physical digital or analog inputs or outputs without restriction. These include Mic, Line or Instrument inputs; headphone, monitor and line outputs; ADAT ins/outs, S/PDIF in/out, Thunderbolt i/o. You can use the physical i/o with or without AFX.

If you need AFX, you need to route signal to the AFX which has 16 available channels. So if I want to use a compressor on input 4 of the ADAT, I can route that signal to channel 14, insert prefered AFX and out put that signal to any physical out put say output 4 of the line outs. An effects channel can have several AFX inserted I think a maximum of 8 stacked per channel.

Antelope Audio make great video tutorials check them out as they do a better job of explaining.







Yes jump to 4:23 in the Goliath HD video BELOW. It says 16 channels with 8 inserts.

Old 5 days ago
  #190
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicalleto View Post
This is what I'm trying to determine as well. I understand you can only record 2 channels with the AFX with the basic package. Does that also mean you'll only be able to run 2 instances of the plugin within your DAW?
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the ConnectAFX VST wrapper is part of the 'premium fx package'.

So you can print the effects from the first 2 channels to audio while recording, monitor through the AFX while tracking, or route the 2 AFX channels into your DAW as hardware inserts.
Old 4 days ago
  #191
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
Thanks for replying. But the answer doesn't do it for me. It doesn't stop me from wondering why your interfaces previously have been shown to be a bit lacking in DAW latency when submitted to controlled comparisons.

Well, well. Maybe I'm not your sales target.
I am so so so sorry but I just can't help myself....this "latency via DAW" when talking about Antelope or Apollo.....WHAT are you people ON ABOUT?!?!
The whole POINT with these interfaces is N O T MONITORING VIA THE DAW!!!!!!
If you're going to NOT use the thing that makes them infintely better when it comes to a recording scenario than their competition then my advice would be to buy something else.

Thedberg, this is not aimed at you personally so I am sorry if I piss you off. =0
I am just at a loss how people miss the purpose with these on-board-dsp-units...
You don't have to CARE about if your computer is a bit slow or your DAW needs to run at 34567890+ buffer-size: You will STILL get zero latency WITH comp and eq when you record...

*takin a chill pill*...
Old 4 days ago
  #192
Quote:
Originally Posted by figgebass View Post
I am so so so sorry but I just can't help myself....this "latency via DAW" when talking about Antelope or Apollo.....WHAT are you people ON ABOUT?!?!
The whole POINT with these interfaces is N O T MONITORING VIA THE DAW!!!!!!
If you're going to NOT use the thing that makes them infintely better when it comes to a recording scenario than their competition then my advice would be to buy something else.

Thedberg, this is not aimed at you personally so I am sorry if I piss you off. =0
I am just at a loss how people miss the purpose with these on-board-dsp-units...
You don't have to CARE about if your computer is a bit slow or your DAW needs to run at 34567890+ buffer-size: You will STILL get zero latency WITH comp and eq when you record...

*takin a chill pill*...
I certainly understand that monitoring via built DSP can be great for many use cases. Good for all of you who need that. I’m sure this interface will be very useful!

My use case is different. I build arrangements by playing my guitar through my S-Gear amp sim and use a lot of soft synths. How efficient the interface drivers are can make a big difference in work flow (I dislike workarounds like offline rendering).

There are A LOT of people with this use case, an objective comparison by a 3rd party can be a useful parameter for us, in addition to all other relevant parameters. And the fact remains that the objective comparisons I’ve seen regarding Antelope stuff have not been flattering for them.

I wasn’t trolling. I genuinely wanted to know if this was a device for guys like me. But we might not be the target demographic. It’s up to Antelope to disprove that. If their claims are true, it’s easily done.


Saw you PM BTW. Good of you. No offense taken.
Old 4 days ago
  #193
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
There are A LOT of people with this use case, an objective comparison by a 3rd party can be a useful parameter for us, in addition to all other relevant parameters. And the fact remains that the objective comparisons I’ve seen regarding Antelope stuff have not been flattering for them.
I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people have this as their main use case.
Old 4 days ago
  #194
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post

I wasn’t trolling. I genuinely wanted to know if this was a device for guys like me. But we might not be the target demographic. It’s up to Antelope to disprove that. If their claims are true, it’s easily done.


Saw you PM BTW. Good of you. No offense taken.
Reputable music shops may allow you to borrow or rent this piece when it comes out. Many more good shops will sell it to you with a 30 day return policy so long as you keep all the original packaging. You seem like you would benefit by just trying this unit yourself first hand. The questions you have been asking I am sure you will be able to answer for yourself and with a lot more certainty than results from others tests or experiences. It's a tool you may or may not need in your locker but only you will know once you try it and experience if it's a good fit for you.
Personally. I do own an Antelope product (MP8D mic pre), which I use in combination with My two Merging Technologies Hapi units when I need extra channels and have never had any problems with it.
Old 4 days ago
  #195
Here for the gear
Seems you either find a use for said equipment or use something else.
Makemusic.......
Old 4 days ago
  #196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Operadude View Post
Reputable music shops may allow you to borrow or rent this piece when it comes out. Many more good shops will sell it to you with a 30 day return policy so long as you keep all the original packaging. You seem like you would benefit by just trying this unit yourself first hand. The questions you have been asking I am sure you will be able to answer for yourself and with a lot more certainty than results from others tests or experiences. It's a tool you may or may not need in your locker but only you will know once you try it and experience if it's a good fit for you.
Personally. I do own an Antelope product (MP8D mic pre), which I use in combination with My two Merging Technologies Hapi units when I need extra channels and have never had any problems with it.
Oh, I was so hoping to be able to get out of this thread and leave it to people for whom this interface probably will be brilliant. But I seem to get misunderstood all the time.

My point is that me and the tons of people who monitor through DAWs could use an *independent comparison*. Borrowing a piece of kit won't tell me if it's better than another piece of kit. For that I would need to borrow all potential candidates and set up elaborate tests. It would be ever so much simpler if vendors just could submit their gear to someone who is prepared and set up for such test. Like Vince (TAFKAT) who builds DAW computers all day long and knows his stuff.

But that choice is up to Antelope or a dealer.

Again, sorry for ruining the party for some of you. Will try to stay away

Keep having fun!
Old 4 days ago
  #197
Lives for gear
I can tell you that I run an Orion Studio 2017 through Studio One at 96kHz, 32 buffer on the Green Z. Works great. 1.2ms RTL. I did the same with Logic and it works but the session is much more impacted by other tracks.

The best test (always) is to work with a dealer who has a return period and try it in your studio - comparing to what you currently use. Great as other sources are - in your studio with your workflow is the only test.
Old 4 days ago
  #198
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post

My point is that me and the tons of people who monitor through DAWs could use an *independent comparison*. Borrowing a piece of kit won't tell me if it's better than another piece of kit. For that I would need to borrow all potential candidates and set up elaborate tests. It would be ever so much simpler if vendors just could submit their gear to someone who is prepared and set up for such test. Like Vince (TAFKAT) who builds DAW computers all day long and knows his stuff.

But that choice is up to Antelope or a dealer.

Again, sorry for ruining the party for some of you. Will try to stay away

Keep having fun!
Look, there is no Rocket science here. There are not many interfaces that do what this one does and at this price point. Two come to mind- UA Apollo and add either The Townsend Labs Modelling mic or Slate Audio, or you can try the new Antelope Discrete 4 or 8 with their plugins and mic modelling if 8 to 16 channels suits your needs. Ask your local Retailer to try both, and bingo. You pick the one that worked best for you and your setup. Otherwise, all you did is buy someone elses opinion which may not be what works best for you.
Dont be afraid of the music store. I assure you they will help you get the right gear and let you do some of your own testing which is the only way to pick gear in my opinion anyway.
Old 4 days ago
  #199
Here for the gear
Nah.

At the risk of sounding coarse and shattering the Antelope negativity chamber...what latency?

I don’t need or want an independent measurement or comparison. I don’t need to pay extra money for a product that’s been “independently verified” by an unstandardized third-party I’m unfamiliar with.

Antelope has an excellent track record of creating great sounding, low latency products, and frankly, the absurdity I’m reading here (and in other Antelope threads) is beyond reproach. A handful of loud, outspoken voices is hardly a measure of overall satisfaction when you consider the volume of units they ship.

I own and regularly use a Zen Tour, and if latency is a thing, I haven’t noticed it. It sounds great, it’s well made, and it’s packed with value.

I’d rather do work than bother with measurements and diminishimg the value of a great piece of gear due to a few milliseconds.
Old 4 days ago
  #200
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
I certainly understand that monitoring via built DSP can be great for many use cases. Good for all of you who need that. I’m sure this interface will be very useful!

My use case is different. I build arrangements by playing my guitar through my S-Gear amp sim and use a lot of soft synths. How efficient the interface drivers are can make a big difference in work flow (I dislike workarounds like offline rendering).

There are A LOT of people with this use case, an objective comparison by a 3rd party can be a useful parameter for us, in addition to all other relevant parameters. And the fact remains that the objective comparisons I’ve seen regarding Antelope stuff have not been flattering for them.

I wasn’t trolling. I genuinely wanted to know if this was a device for guys like me. But we might not be the target demographic. It’s up to Antelope to disprove that. If their claims are true, it’s easily done.


Saw you PM BTW. Good of you. No offense taken.
I don’t understand it. Just try one. Numbers by someone else won’t make any difference to how you’ll feel when playing your guitar through SGear with your own DAW, memory capacity, HD/SSD speed, buffer availability etc.
We’re not talking about 10ms+ between interfaces here. The difference is tiiiiiny and only you will be able to tell if the difference is big enough to warrant alternative interfaces.
Old 3 days ago
  #201
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
I don’t understand it. Just try one. Numbers by someone else won’t make any difference to how you’ll feel when playing your guitar through SGear with your own DAW, memory capacity, HD/SSD speed, buffer availability etc.
We’re not talking about 10ms+ between interfaces here. The difference is tiiiiiny and only you will be able to tell if the difference is big enough to warrant alternative interfaces.
^^^ THIS
Old 3 days ago
  #202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Operadude View Post
Look, there is no Rocket science here. There are not many interfaces that do what this one does and at this price point. Two come to mind- UA Apollo and add either The Townsend Labs Modelling mic or Slate Audio, or you can try the new Antelope Discrete 4 or 8 with their plugins and mic modelling if 8 to 16 channels suits your needs. Ask your local Retailer to try both, and bingo. You pick the one that worked best for you and your setup. Otherwise, all you did is buy someone elses opinion which may not be what works best for you.
Dont be afraid of the music store. I assure you they will help you get the right gear and let you do some of your own testing which is the only way to pick gear in my opinion anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
I don’t understand it. Just try one. Numbers by someone else won’t make any difference to how you’ll feel when playing your guitar through SGear with your own DAW, memory capacity, HD/SSD speed, buffer availability etc.
We’re not talking about 10ms+ between interfaces here. The difference is tiiiiiny and only you will be able to tell if the difference is big enough to warrant alternative interfaces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by climber View Post
^^^ THIS
Hmm.... I sincerely wonder why I fail to make my point!? Well, I'll try another viewpoint.

Of course I won't know what latency I will get on my system based on other people's numbers. But that's not the point. No interface on any computer (within reason) will allow people with this use case to run all plugins we want without resorting to freezing or increasing buffer size. All we can aim for is the solution that lets us keep going at low latencies the longest.

Have look at this table: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12811489-post1536.html. And let's say we want USB and latency of under 10 ms (just as an example, 10 ms is equivalent to standing 3,4 meters from an amp, should be ok in a lot of cases). On this specific setup the best interface can handle 280 demanding plugins (the CV column). The worst can handle 40 or none at all.

Obviously, the real world numbers will be vastly different from computer to computer. But the difference between them will be a factor of six! Isn't it reasonable to want at least an indication of where a potential new interface might land?

Borrowing an Antelope interface will never tell me where on the 1:6 scale it lands compared to other choices. It's not about absolute numbers, it's about relative numbers.

But still. Perhaps I should shut up now. And even heed the advice from a lot of you and try one when it's available. 50,000,000 Antelope fans can't be wrong
Old 3 days ago
  #203
Here for the gear
 

I own two slate vms mics, and use those with an apogee duet, but want to go back to multi channel (drum) tracking with a discrete 8 (or maybe two, or maybe an 8 and a 4) - wondering if anyone here can answer a few q's for me - especially anyone at Antelope:

1) will the Slate mic work ok with this unit? Not sure if it's similarly built to take advantage of the discrete and no coloring nature of the pres to best "take on" the emulations
2) can the apogee duet be used at the same time for an extra 2 channels - can they clock together without any digital communication out side of my Logic pro DAW
3) will this work in my 2012 upgraded/CPU updated 5,1 mac pro (FW and usb only - no Tbolt) with minimal latency like my Apogee?
4) what's the expected shipping date? I had been eyeing the slate VRS but have grown tired of waiting
5) where can we hear some real world applications? Slates VRS videos are a pretty good sell. Until now, I wasn't aware of anyone else offering something like this

Product looks amazing - I'd grab one now if the answers to the above pan out

thanks!!
Old 3 days ago
  #204
Lives for gear
 

So Marcel, were just not going to answer my repeated question? Ive asked numerous times, how the d to a converters differ from these units and the zen tour, thanks.
Old 3 days ago
  #205
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
Hmm.... I sincerely wonder why I fail to make my point!? Well, I'll try another viewpoint.

Of course I won't know what latency I will get on my system based on other people's numbers. But that's not the point. No interface on any computer (within reason) will allow people with this use case to run all plugins we want without resorting to freezing or increasing buffer size. All we can aim for is the solution that lets us keep going at low latencies the longest.

Have look at this table: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12811489-post1536.html. And let's say we want USB and latency of under 10 ms (just as an example, 10 ms is equivalent to standing 3,4 meters from an amp, should be ok in a lot of cases). On this specific setup the best interface can handle 280 demanding plugins (the CV column). The worst can handle 40 or none at all.

Obviously, the real world numbers will be vastly different from computer to computer. But the difference between them will be a factor of six! Isn't it reasonable to want at least an indication of where a potential new interface might land?

Borrowing an Antelope interface will never tell me where on the 1:6 scale it lands compared to other choices. It's not about absolute numbers, it's about relative numbers.

But still. Perhaps I should shut up now. And even heed the advice from a lot of you and try one when it's available. 50,000,000 Antelope fans can't be wrong
I think what you ask is perfectly reasonable, low latency is becoming a very important factor for those of us that want to work that way, this is one reason why I am also very interested in the Slate VSR8.

If a unit becomes available that is truly high quality and delivers very low latency that is stable, then I would want that unit, but we will see, as for Antelope I think stable low latency through the daw isn't their priority because they want people to use their DSP.

I think the Prosonus Quantum looks good but I doubt the AD/DA and headphones will be of high enough quality to satisfy my needs, I could be wrong though I haven't tried it.
Old 3 days ago
  #206
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post

Borrowing an Antelope interface will never tell me where on the 1:6 scale it lands compared to other choices. It's not about absolute numbers, it's about relative numbers.
Sure it will. Run the CV test yourself on it. FWIW - the first 20 interfaces listed all run CV better than 200. So how much difference wil that be for you between them?

But so many other things play in - like if you use Studio One it only loads the VI in record at the low buffer! A huge change.

I have owned lately - Apogee Ensemble TB, HDN, Zen Tour, Red4 Pre, Orion Studio 2017 - None are listed in this comparison. All worked very well and especially the latest ones all had very good drivers - for my uses! Al were bought with Low Latency Audio recording as top priority.
Old 3 days ago
  #207
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
I have a feeling they would LOVE to get into the UAD pricing model but that would be going back against their own words (where they absolutely _promised_ to never ask money for effects.. that was their main sales schtick against UAD).

.. so they came up with this weird compromise. You can only use effects on the first two channels.

I don't really have an issue with this, neither would I have an issue if they just straight up said: "Look, we need to start covering those R&D costs for the effects so we need to get paid for them"

The main issue I have with this current model is that it's extremely confusing.
You are really just wrong, you know that right? We NEVER "promised to never ask money for effects". We haven't charged for them up until now and I am on record as saying we may at some point charge for new special FX models. There are some effects that not everyone wants or needs and it only seems fair that only those users interested in those FX should pay for those. With the Discrete 4 and 8, we limited the number of channel strips of effect to hit a very low new price point for our products.
Old 3 days ago
  #208
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuXx View Post
So Marcel, were just not going to answer my repeated question? Ive asked numerous times, how the d to a converters differ from these units and the zen tour, thanks.
This question was answered back on post #102 . Discrete 4 and 8 are to my ear the same sound as Zen Tour and Orion Studio. I'm certain nobody will be disappointed if you like the Antelope sound.

Thanks
Old 3 days ago
  #209
Lives for gear
 
jjdpro's Avatar
 

So...Is Antelope the OEM for Slate's VRS Products?????
Old 3 days ago
  #210
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
Oh, I was so hoping to be able to get out of this thread and leave it to people for whom this interface probably will be brilliant. But I seem to get misunderstood all the time.

My point is that me and the tons of people who monitor through DAWs could use an *independent comparison*. Borrowing a piece of kit won't tell me if it's better than another piece of kit. For that I would need to borrow all potential candidates and set up elaborate tests. It would be ever so much simpler if vendors just could submit their gear to someone who is prepared and set up for such test. Like Vince (TAFKAT) who builds DAW computers all day long and knows his stuff.

But that choice is up to Antelope or a dealer.

Again, sorry for ruining the party for some of you. Will try to stay away

Keep having fun!
Antelope have their own FPGA amps that would probably afford you more tonal options than S-Gear. If I didn't have a Kemper, I would more than likely be using the Antelope amp sims (and I have S-Gear, Guitar Rig 5, BIAS Amp/FX, Cubase Amp rack etc.). In that scenario, you have zero latency if you print through those effects and commit.
Personally, I commit all of my guitars through the Kemper anyway, but if you wanted to re-amp the DI signal through S-gear after the fact, you can print the FPGA processed guitar to audio, and also the unprocessed DI guitar, and re-amp it with S-gear. This is very easily done through the Antelope routing matrix.

What is the benchmark that this guy is using to to measure the round trip latency?
If his tests are scientific, surely his methodology is freely available for anyone to try so that they can verify his results? If not, then I wouldn't be so quick to put my faith in them.
I had a look at their site, but couldn't find any obvious way to reproduce their latency benchmark.

Tracking at 128 samples over USB, I am getting 3ms of latency which I do not feel or notice while tracking guitars, drums, bass or vocals. That is my real world experience.
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