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Toontrack announces Superior Drummer 3
Old 6 days ago
  #601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
You know, a relationship with either Microsoft or AWS would have helped Toontrack with this deployment. In either of those environments the deployment would have scaled up and back down to the demand of user downloads along with higher bandwidth so people wouldn't have to spend 3-4 days of constant download for the full package. Whoever is hosting this now was ill equipped for the process. Here in California, the bandwidth provided was only 1.3MB/s. Come on guys. Two days of 24x7 downloading got me the base package. Just not thought through.
Agreed. This is becoming a recurrent theme when it comes to highly anticipated products and online content in general. Steam and other gaming services sometimes offers a "pre-load" of popular games, which helps to mitigate the impact on launch day. Maybe that's something developers can consider when releasing products that requires big downloads such as this one.
Old 6 days ago
  #602
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guavadude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiltrip View Post
Well, I asked TT about the EZX graphics. Their reply...

"The Superior Drummer line has always had its own "look" for EZX libraries. The EZX graphics inside of Superior Drummer 3 has been updated specifically for Superior Drummer 3 and will not be changed in a future update.
Custom, changing graphics are only for SDX libraries. "

So, I replied back. One of the coolest things about SD3 is the unique graphics on the kit pieces, making it easier to identify and choose your kit pieces. Having generic black pieces for any and all EZX packs really muddies up the experience I think. I hope they rethink this approach. Right now it seems like they want to single out the "lesser" EZX packs by giving them 2nd rate priority.

This is actually my only gripe about SD3. It just seems like such an obvious oversight to me, and to have them simply state, that's how it is, just bummed me out a bit.
I agree and mentioned it to them as well. Send in a feature request. They listen to user feedback but use the channels they have set up for it or send an email, don't just post in a thread where they may not see it.

I've always wished for better graphics or actual pics because these drums are just cool to look at! I wish I could just see all the snares or whatever by image only. That way I could find the ones I like so much quicker than having to read down the list and audition every time. Starring Favs helps though.
Old 6 days ago
  #603
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elambo's Avatar
One of the coolest things about an audio product is its graphics? I've been all throughout this plugin and considering all that it does the graphics are 623rd on my list of cool features/functions.
Old 6 days ago
  #604
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shatz's Avatar
My only issue is my stupid ATT internet caps me at 1 TB a month, which I'm extremely close to going over (end of the period) after downloading the core library and room mics.
Just watching HD movies gets me close to my 1 TB a month.

In this case I would have much preferred the discs.
Old 6 days ago
  #605
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skiltrip's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
One of the coolest things about an audio product is its graphics? I've been all throughout this plugin and considering all that it does the graphics are 623rd on my list of cool features/functions.
We've been down this road before. It's all that little extra attention to detail that makes the workflow better. Visually identifying things helps us in the real world as well as the virtual. It's not a show-stopper, but it's worth mentioning.
Old 6 days ago
  #606
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skiltrip's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
I agree and mentioned it to them as well. Send in a feature request. They listen to user feedback but use the channels they have set up for it or send an email, don't just post in a thread where they may not see it.

I've always wished for better graphics or actual pics because these drums are just cool to look at! I wish I could just see all the snares or whatever by image only. That way I could find the ones I like so much quicker than having to read down the list and audition every time. Starring Favs helps though.
I had tech support forward my request.

Honestly the more I use the software (still only have part 1 of the core library installed), the less it's bothering me. I have a feeling I'm going to be using this core library a lot, so my EZX's may end up eventually falling into my drum stacking options instead of using one of the kits in it's entirety.
Old 6 days ago
  #607
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stonelark's Avatar
 

After a quick audition of some of the kits, presets, and grooves I'm humbly blown away. There is a generous supply of really, really useful stuff here.

Wow.
Old 6 days ago
  #608
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feck's Avatar
I really don't understand how these can be 127 velocity hits. Seriously, that should be more like 70-80.
Attached Files

127 snare.mp3 (213.3 KB, 3797 views)

127 kick.mp3 (213.3 KB, 3621 views)

Old 6 days ago
  #609
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I'd agree those sound like 70—80 if the kick and snare were receiving 127 and nothing was being scaled anywhere. Are all the kit pieces like that?
Old 6 days ago
  #610
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonelark View Post
I'd agree those sound like 70—80 if the kick and snare were receiving 127 and nothing was being scaled anywhere. Are all the kit pieces like that?
Not all but many. I'm pretty surprised. Seems like a massive oversight in my opinion.
Old 6 days ago
  #611
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skiltrip's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonelark View Post
After a quick audition of some of the kits, presets, and grooves I'm humbly blown away. There is a generous supply of really, really useful stuff here.

Wow.
The versatility of this core library (along with the mixer effects) is immediately obvious. It has very much exceeded my expectations on that front. It makes me wonder why I'd need any other future SDX. When you look at it that way, the admission price for this looks more and more reasonable.
Old 6 days ago
  #612
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stonelark's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Not all but many. I'm pretty surprised. Seems like a massive oversight in my opinion.
For the stuff I do, I would honestly never need samples of someone slamming a kit so hard the heads were in danger, and would prefer the 127-range spread over useful samples. I'm finding the kits to be perfect for rock, pop, country, hip hop, etc.

As long as there are some kits available that might satisfy hardcore metal and punk, perhaps everyone can be happy. I hope there are some kits in there that work out for you.
Old 6 days ago
  #613
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guavadude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Not all but many. I'm pretty surprised. Seems like a massive oversight in my opinion.
Yeah I think some of these are designed to be more polite versions for different genres. I have a lot of kits from TT and Slate that work well for slamming, wall of guitar tracks. These S3 kits seem to cover all the over bases well and some rock stuff as well.

I've found that the tape plugin and judicious use of compression wake these up considerably. It also seems like I can process the hell out of these and the low end and overall tone hold together well, possibly because they aren't being hit so hard.
Old 6 days ago
  #614
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Not all but many. I'm pretty surprised. Seems like a massive oversight in my opinion.
Yeah, this was one of the first things I noticed too. I keep hoping maybe there's some bug in the software that's keeping higher velocity samples from triggering because this definitely seems odd given Toontrack's usual modus operandi.
Old 6 days ago
  #615
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Yeah, this was one of the first things I noticed too. I keep hoping maybe there's some bug in the software that's keeping higher velocity samples from triggering because this definitely seems odd given Toontrack's usual modus operandi.
Something I've noticed which could be a bug, is that, yes, the default velocity is rather low when you strike any kit element. When you load in a MIDI file, and ramp, say, the snare hit on that all the way up to 127, those hits hit a lot harder.

I wasn't pleased with the tame sound of one of the kits' high tom. Dragged its velocity up to 127 and it whalloped as expected. As I kept looking for an input velocity option (Studio One has one in its MIDI grid, which defaults to 100 and for some reason can't be altered to suit your own needs, which I think is an oversight). So let's hope that this is a bug and it will be addressed soon.

Other than that, sound wise it all sounds great to me. I've already built a few custom kits to experiment with, but with all the room ambience options, I can safely say that I won't have to spend a lot of time and CPU on creating rooms with an outside reverb plugin any more, which is something I routinely do in SD 2, where some of the room ambience channels aren't as good as the SD3 ones.

Something else I'm missing (or haven't found yet), is the option to clear the entire MIDI mapping to substitute your own. I could, of course, load in my previously rendered drum files into Tracker and create a new MIDI file to go with them, but eventually, I would like to have versions of my kits which are mapped out to work with my own programming within my DAW, which is quite different from doing it on e-drums or keyboards.

But overall, I'm really pleased I took the plunge and did the upgrade.
Old 6 days ago
  #616
There was a lot of discussion about more indie/retro sounding drums. Can anyone give some examples from the kits for a 60's/70's or 90's drum sound?

Also what's the midi library that comes it it like? As far as I could tell this was what you were really buying when you bought the expansions far more than the processed kits. What if you have midi from other products such as BFD, or your own midi sequences, can you add that in to the library and search it with the cool tap 2 find tech?
Old 6 days ago
  #617
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
There was a lot of discussion about more indie/retro sounding drums. Can anyone give some examples from the kits for a 60's/70's or 90's drum sound?

Also what's the midi library that comes it it like? As far as I could tell this was what you were really buying when you bought the expansions far more than the processed kits. What if you have midi from other products such as BFD, or your own midi sequences, can you add that in to the library and search it with the cool tap 2 find tech?
Here's a Youtube video I just found, with a selection of several of the 191 presets across different genres.

What I'm taking away from just this small selection, is that SD3's presets cater for a lot more than just rock and metal, a whole lot more. Hell, there even are hip hop kits in there!



Old 6 days ago
  #618
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Old 6 days ago
  #619
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mamm7215's Avatar
Best service has the crossgrade from EZ2 on for $249 US. Low enough for me. Bought.
Old 6 days ago
  #620
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stonelark's Avatar
 

@mamm, i don't think you'll have any buyer's remorse — especially upgrading from EZ. After spending more time with SD3 (and coming coming from Superior Drummer), I don't think any of my EZ Drummer and Superior Drummer expansion packs will see much use anymore (though I'm quite fond of Superior Indiependent). There is huge variety and value in this new software.
Old 6 days ago
  #621
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mamm7215's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonelark View Post
@mamm, i don't think you'll have any buyer's remorse — especially upgrading from EZ. After spending more time with SD3 (and coming coming from Superior Drummer), I don't think any of my EZ Drummer and Superior Drummer expansion packs will see much use anymore (though I'm quite fond of Superior Indiependent). There is huge variety and value in this new software.
You're right, I don't Been playing around for the last hour or so, I was fortunate with fast downloads. Didn't really even scratch the surface but sure liked what I saw and heard. Easy to get lost in.
Old 6 days ago
  #622
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Evil Jack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
I really don't understand how these can be 127 velocity hits. Seriously, that should be more like 70-80.
Eeek. This can't be right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Not all but many. I'm pretty surprised. Seems like a massive oversight in my opinion.
Are your old SD2 SDXs behaving correctly in the V3 player?

Last edited by Evil Jack; 6 days ago at 09:38 AM..
Old 6 days ago
  #623
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Jack View Post
Eeek. This can't be right!



Are your old SD2 SDXs behaving correctly in the V3 player?
Yep, they are so far.
Old 6 days ago
  #624
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Since I have to wait another month or so before I can afford to purchase SD3...I'm curious now...are you guys saying the maximum velocity any drum will reach, no matter how hard you play it from keyboard or pads, is 80? And that you have to then go edit the MIDI and scale it up so that all your hits will be harder?

That doesn't make sense.
Old 6 days ago
  #625
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamm7215 View Post
Best service has the crossgrade from EZ2 on for $249 US. Low enough for me. Bought.
Did you have to wait long for a license. Thinking I will order from them.
Old 6 days ago
  #626
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guavadude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Polich View Post
Since I have to wait another month or so before I can afford to purchase SD3...I'm curious now...are you guys saying the maximum velocity any drum will reach, no matter how hard you play it from keyboard or pads, is 80? And that you have to then go edit the MIDI and scale it up so that all your hits will be harder?

That doesn't make sense.
I think some of the drums were recorded purposely to be used on less intense tracks. They kinda peak out at mf (mezzo forte) but use the entire range of the midi input to do this. For those type of tracks it's actually better than having to limit off all the hard hits. You get the full range of playability and maybe this is why the rim shot hits blend so well with the center hits.

If you're only working on slamming tracks you'll obviously want to avoid a few of the snares and maybe the Gretsch kit in general. I've found that these touchy feely kits work on that style track much better than anything else I have used. I can play soft on a track and there's a realism to these kits that I think is convincing.

Watch the YouTube vids of the S3 presets and then the one I posted a page back of all the SDX kits and you'll get s good idea of the range.

Try beating the crap out of the S3 with distortion and compression. They sound huge and don't get smaller like a lot of slamming kits do.

Last edited by guavadude; 6 days ago at 05:32 PM..
Old 6 days ago
  #627
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mamm7215's Avatar
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Originally Posted by littledoodler View Post
Did you have to wait long for a license. Thinking I will order from them.
My license came in about 90 seconds. I was pretty amazed it came so fast as I live on the west coast of Canada and ordered at around 9pm last night.
Old 6 days ago
  #628
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stonelark's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Polich View Post
...are you guys saying the maximum velocity any drum will reach, no matter how hard you play it from keyboard or pads, is 80? And that you have to then go edit the MIDI and scale it up so that all your hits will be harder?
No, that's not what we're saying. The full range of velocity (0-127) is utilized. But (as @guavadude sez), various kits/pieces have different sample ranges. So some kits are more applicable to slamming extreme punk drums at higher velocities, while others are better suited for "mainstream" stuff. Listen to some of the youtube videos of the kits and presets. I doubt you will be remorse or lacking.

Update: I just did a quick test playing all velocities in a crescendo, played through SD3 using various EZ Drummer, SD2, and SD3 drum components. Did this with sample Variations on and off. With Variations off (only raw samples played, with no volume tricks employed to adjust between the samples) it becomes apparent how many "soft-to-hard" hits were sampled. The SD3 samples are plentiful, so the crescendos are pretty smooth even with Variation off; with Variation on (default) — they are very smooth. Of course, if the samples were not recorded by slamming the pieces until their heads cracked, you won't squeeze that out unless you add head-crack plug-ins.

Last edited by stonelark; 6 days ago at 08:16 PM.. Reason: update
Old 6 days ago
  #629
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skiltrip's Avatar
So far I continue to be blown away at how well put together SD3 is.
The grid editor was something I was pretty excited about. I love the Edit Play Style from EZdrummer2, but it could only take you so far. You'd sooner or later need to export it out to your DAW for switching things up to hit accents correctly and massage things into place. The fact that you can quickly and easily go between Edit Play Style and the Grid Editor is incredible. This is the closest drum software has come to emulating communicating with a drummer.
Click 2 Find is when you first try to get the drummer to understand the basics of what you're looking for. Edit Play style is when you say, give it a little less snare, or a little busier on the hi-hat. That sort of thing. And, Grid Editor, is when you tell the drummer to move so you can show them exactly what you're getting at. lol. And no one's feelings get hurt!

Drum stacking couldn't be any easier. I'm glad they simplified the mic routing over SD2. It's now very easy to put the new drum on it's own channel or route it through with the other kit pieces of the same type. I can't tell you how many sessions I've had in the past, stacking multiple instances of EZdrummer 2. Both kits routed out to channels in my DAW. It made for a maddening experience keeping track of what's what. SD3 keeps all this nice and tidy.

CPU usage is also pretty fantastic considering all that's going on under the hood. In Studio One I've seen it taking up between 10% and 25% depending on how intense the preset was with channels and effects. The 25% CPU wasn't the usual though, it was usually in the teens at most. This is on a 2GHz i7 2011 MacBook Pro by the way, not really a modern or super-powerful machine.

I definitely don't see me ever opening EZD2 again. Who knows, maybe I will for nostalgia purposes. SD3 is simply no more cumbersome to use, and it just does more when you need it.

Hard to not just gush about this software. It's really off the charts good.
Old 6 days ago
  #630
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Originally Posted by skiltrip View Post
So far I continue to be blown away at how well put
Hard to not just gush about this software. It's really off the charts good.
Couldn't agree more! I'm noticing a few bugs here and there where certain kits don't play nice with my e-drums. One of the weird electronic kits doesn't seem to trigger the snare right. Other then that, this program is phenomenal. Pretty sure I am just going to stick with the kits it comes with. Don't really need any of the SDXs anymore. For me anyways. Progressive Foundry is awesome but there is so much here that I don't need it for my style of music.
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