The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Royalty Free and Sound Design Question Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 6 days ago
  #31
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Jeffrey Hayat is hereby granted the right to use the samples in any manner which he sees fit.

Selfish bastard.....
Old 6 days ago
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
Selfish bastard.....
Moi????
Old 6 days ago
  #33
Lives for gear
You heard me.....
Old 6 days ago
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Old 6 days ago
  #35
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Gotta find a way to create your own sounds.
Exceeeept......if the sounds are based with samples as the waveform media (like about 80% of Omni patches...)....then you're still in violation. You can use the square, sine, and pulse wave samples though - just not the burning piano bowed with a toilet bowl samples. That said, I almost always end up tweaking sounds, but that's the era and discipline I grew up in...... and yet....I'm in violation if I turn them in separately without multiple overdubs disguising them.

I think the spectra guys got bummed when half the cues on TV were 80% Distorted Reality and they realized that their clients were making royalties and they weren't. That's the only thing I can think of. But now they are penalizing those who support them. I'm all for protecting your intellectual property, but when it's used as a foundational aspect of someone elses creative works....that line gets pretty dam thin.

Last edited by drBill; 6 days ago at 06:22 AM..
Old 6 days ago
  #36
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
My favorite irony of all time is that BigFishAudio puts out "construction kits" with Intro, Vs.1, Prechorus, Chorus1, Vs.2, Chorus 2, Bridge, Ending - ALL instruments - AND THEN HAVE THE AUDACITY to tell you that you cannot use them as a "song" that's being placed into a library. WTH is that all about. Why label them as such and then tell us not to use them. LOL Stupid. Big Fish is never getting a dime of my $$$, and any music for media composer should RUN unless they've read their EULA and found one of the RARE libraries there that actually allow you to be creative however way you choose. Like what, they are going to release their construction kit on the commercial market and need to guard those rights?

Spectrasonics is way off base, and even in trying to be "nice" to the composer, they imbed teeth into their EULA. Enough so that legal savvy folks like legit libraries will not allow you - the composer - to turn in stems or alt mixes that are primarily Spectrasonics. They need to redo their EULA's.
Old 6 days ago
  #37
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrow View Post

So the question for you guys is what should a licensing agreement look like?
"You the end user get to use our samples in any way you see fit. Since you purchased a license to our super awesome unique one of a kind cinematic sfx and music sample library, You have the right to build upon our works that we voluntarily created to sell to you. We fully understand being a modern day composer means creating multi-track recordings and providing stems in a fast, timely manner is part of your job. We understand that you may not always have time to create super awesome sounds like the ones we just sold you so please feel free use the samples we created to serve your client and listener in anyway you see fit. We understand that the demands on you as the composer are the whole reason we create solutions for you the composer. We exist only because of you and we only wish to make things as easy for you as possible since you paid a fair price for the product we created for you."

Or.

Tell us exactly how many processing hoops we have to jump through to manipulate the your samples in order for you to not be pissed off!
Old 6 days ago
  #38
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrow View Post
Here's a portion of Spitfire's "agreement which I find rather odd:


Spitfire Audio grants to you (and only you) a non-exclusive, non-sublicensable, non-transferrable license to download (on not more than two devices concurrently) and use the Products you purchase from Spitfire Audio PROVIDED ALWAYS that you use the purchased Sound File(s) only within your own newly-created sound recording(s) and/or performances in a manner that renders the Sound File(s) substantially dissimilar to the original sound of the Sound File in each case. The Products (and all recordings and/or compositions incorporated therein) are the property of Spitfire Audio and are licensed to you only for use as part of a live or recorded musical performance. You may not use these sounds for any commercial or non-commercial purpose except where you have combined them with other sounds within one or more musical composition(s) and/or recording(s).


Sounds like you have to "mangle" the sound in order to use it


So, let's say you make an orchestral track just using several Spitfire libraries you are not allowed to sell/license your composition through a library, regardless of the (highly debatable) stems issue....something is not right here...
Old 5 days ago
  #39
007
Lives for gear
 
007's Avatar
 

This Omnisphere caveat is actually news to me.
I had no idea they were so tight-a$$ed about it.
It's fvcking sound, for christ's sake, you buy the product for half a grand, that should be all the license you need.

They make it so to help you create.
They sell it so you can buy it, in order to create.
You buy it so you can use it, and go on creating.
You like how it sounds, that's why you fvcking bought it in the first place, to create with it.

WTF is wrong with these companies, get over yourselves.
Old 5 days ago
  #40
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarproducer View Post
So, let's say you make an orchestral track just using several Spitfire libraries you are not allowed to sell/license your composition through a library, regardless of the (highly debatable) stems issue....something is not right here...
just found this thread, as I wanted to get to the bottom of this too - all seems ok.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...trictions.html
Old 5 days ago
  #41
Gear Head
 

Can I use a bassline from a James Brown song, a guitar lick from a Hendrix tune, a Hammond lick from an ELP tune and a drum beat from a Bruno Mars tune?

Only kidding. Just wanted to throw gas on the fire .

Im my experience, you can read all of the contracts you want for VST instruments. I have been in the Production Music business for quite some time and never heard of a VST library going after a composer for using a staccato viola patch on a TV dramady que. The ONLY reason they use strong wording and tactics is to stop a user from selling their own libraries comprised of patches, either mixed or alone from the VST Lib in question.
Old 5 days ago
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Scott View Post
The ONLY reason they use strong wording and tactics is to stop a user from selling their own libraries comprised of patches, either mixed or alone from the VST Lib in question.
This. As I said, the licensing agreements aren't written to restrict you from doing your work but for the other guy who has no legitimate license and/or wants to make $$ off the original material outside its intended use.

I've re-read Spectrasonics and Big Fishes' and am still confused by some of the comments here. Help me out if you can:

Where does it say that the Spectrasonics creations have to be layered two to three deep or can not be obviously exposed?

Where in the BFA EULA does it restrict use of construction kits?





I'll post the EULA I used for my libraries for comment here once I dig it up.
Old 5 days ago
  #43
Gear Maniac
 

Big Fish don’t allow the use of stems. I asked them...good way to lose a customer.
Old 5 days ago
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarproducer View Post
Big Fish don’t allow the use of stems. I asked them...good way to lose a customer.
Also, good way to lose a client.

Great track Jeff! Go ahead and send me stems.

Sorry, can't.

Ha - you are funny. Go ahead and send them ASAP... thanks!
Old 5 days ago
  #45
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrow View Post
Where does it say that the Spectrasonics creations have to be layered two to three deep or can not be obviously exposed?
I said that there are LIBRARIES that say that. I didn't say spectrasonics said it - it does not say "3 deep" on the spectrasonics EULA's.

The thing is, the libraries in question have been in direct contact with Spectrasonics and have come up with that "rule" for their composers for the LIBRARY to feel OK about not infringing.
Old 5 days ago
  #46
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Also, good way to lose a client.

Great track Jeff! Go ahead and send me stems.

Sorry, can't.

Ha - you are funny. Go ahead and send them ASAP... thanks!




your clients know better than to take you seriously don't they Jeff.
Old 5 days ago
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I said that there are LIBRARIES that say that. I didn't say spectrasonics said it - it does not say "3 deep" on the spectrasonics EULA's.

The thing is, the libraries in question have been in direct contact with Spectrasonics and have come up with that "rule" for their composers for the LIBRARY to feel OK about not infringing.
Thanks for the reply Dr Bill. I was confused because the criticisms seem to be directed toward Spectrasonics and BFA when they should be directed at the music libraries. There is no beneficial reason that I can see that the software companies would agree to such a rule, otherwise it would be in their EULA.


All in all its good this topic of discussion has popped up again. EULAs' have been pretty much the same boiler plate for quite awhile and definitely need to evolve.
Old 5 days ago
  #48
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrow View Post
Thanks for the reply Dr Bill. I was confused because the criticisms seem to be directed toward Spectrasonics and BFA when they should be directed at the music libraries. There is no beneficial reason that I can see that the software companies would agree to such a rule, otherwise it would be in their EULA.


All in all its good this topic of discussion has popped up again. EULAs' have been pretty much the same boiler plate for quite awhile and definitely need to evolve.
Respectfully - that's ridiculous. It's not the Libraries that are making the rules up out of the blue. They have come to this conclusion in order to COMPLY with Spectrasonics, etc.. EULA's.
Old 5 days ago
  #49
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Respectfully - that's ridiculous. It's not the Libraries that are making the rules up out of the blue. They have come to this conclusion in order to COMPLY with Spectrasonics, etc.. EULA's.
I agree here with Dr. Bill. I'm not blaming the libraries at all, It's their job to cover their ass as well as it's mine to cover mine.

This whole topic I brought up because I am working with a really great library at the moment designing sounds. I was using some 'off the beaten path' 100% royalty free sfx to layer up some cool sounds. I paid for the samples and was starting to use them on the project and was upfront about it to my contact at the library. He read the EULA of the store where i purchased the samples and he found a "grey area" in their license. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable so I said i wouldn't use them.

I've since contacted the store AND the company that made the samples to distributed through said store and they both said i was totally clear to use the samples to layer into my sound design cues. I'm still not going to use them because I said i wouldn't but I wanted to ask you guys what your thoughts were.

With that being said, when the only thing in a sample library's EULA is "100% Royalty Free" doesn't that mean i can do whatever I want short of reselling them as a sample pack?
Old 5 days ago
  #50
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearside View Post
With that being said, when the only thing in a sample library's EULA is "100% Royalty Free" doesn't that mean i can do whatever I want short of reselling them as a sample pack?
If that's the ONLY thing in their EULA, then yes, you can do whatever you deem fit. However, I've never seen a EULA that short.....
Old 5 days ago
  #51
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Scott View Post
The ONLY reason they use strong wording and tactics is to stop a user from selling their own libraries comprised of patches, either mixed or alone from the VST Lib in question.
Great point. I'm no lawyer but i'd have to imagine suing your customers is usually bad for business!

Last edited by clearside; 5 days ago at 04:13 AM..
Old 5 days ago
  #52
Here for the gear
 

I recently bought some sound design effects for the purpose of using them in sound design heavy cues and contacted the developer to make sure it was ok to do so. They told me I could use the sound effects in musical cues but not in pure sound design cues. I was also told I couldn't supply my clients the sound design in a stem without a musical element combined with it.

This was all in the context of me using their sound design construction packs to create my own unrecognisable sounds through heavy processing and manipulation. To do this it requires a new license based on the type of usage of the sound effects in which they'll get a rev-share.

I would be careful and check with each sound effect library you are using exactly how you intend to use their sounds to sell or license as sound design cues. Similarly be aware that if supplying stems you may not be able to create a pure SFX stem. The main thing I took away from all this is that music and sound design are considered two different things when it comes to licensing and publishing. These companies directly license sound effects to be used by anyone, and if you then take them and make new sound effects you are basically going into direct competition with their potential customers so they'll want a cut.

I decided to record all of my own sounds from scratch and create my own original sound design. The best thing is - sound effects are mostly free, no one owns them, you don't have to pay a session player and get a release, we are surrounded by them and if you record them they are yours.
Old 4 days ago
  #53
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snabbit View Post
I recently bought some sound design effects for the purpose of using them in sound design heavy cues and contacted the developer to make sure it was ok to do so. They told me I could use the sound effects in musical cues but not in pure sound design cues.
Thanks for this post, I was expecting this would probably be the correct answer so this is what i've been doing. It also answers my next question which is I guess a Sound Design Cue is not considered a Musical Cue. Which i understand. For the record they are like mini compositions
Old 4 days ago
  #54
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearside View Post
Sound Design Cue is not considered a Musical Cue.
Depends. There are some who consider any synthy, semi-atonal, washy, big hits cues "sound design" cues. Those are DEFINITELY music in my book. Some composers score an entire film that way. Definitely music.
Old 4 days ago
  #55
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Haha, for sure. Damnit Dr. Bill, i just got through tying a nice little bow on this convo and here you come with MORE GREY AREA! Lol
Old 4 days ago
  #56
Here for the gear
 

Yeah it's a completely grey area in my book as I consider any sound used harmonically and rhythmically musical. The other interesting thing is that if you end up getting a sound effects license that gives the sfx library rev-share, they are essentially going to get performance royalties either from the publisher or writers share which in theory means that the sound design cue is actually a music cue.
End of the day though each company that offers 'royalty free' sfx or samples makes their own rules on how you can use their material. For this reason I always send an email to make sure I can use sfx/samples in all the ways I intend so that I can iron out any ambiguities (of which there always seems to be in every license).
For the record in regards to Big Fish I emailed them about using the libraries I had of theirs in production music and they got back straight away and confirmed I had there 'special license' for all of them. It was easy and I think they do it so they can keep tabs on who's using their samples for production music. I read somewhere that some folks were just putting together their construction kits and selling the songs outright so it makes sense that they want to keep this under control... otherwise there would be hundreds of the same song out there all claimed by different composers.
Old 4 days ago
  #57
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snabbit View Post
It was easy and I think they do it so they can keep tabs on who's using their samples for production music. I read somewhere that some folks were just putting together their construction kits and selling the songs outright so it makes sense that they want to keep this under control... otherwise there would be hundreds of the same song out there all claimed by different composers.
I've heard that it was easy from other guys too. I've found it anything but. I just needed to use a little banjo lick or a guitar part of something minimal, and I've never received a response from them, and have abandoned their service and sound libraries because of it.

As for the "making sense of it all...," - I'm not sure why they would care if there were hundreds of "construction kit" songs that were virtually identical out there. That's a composer problem, not a sound library problem. I've heard other different reasons for it. Either way, doesn't matter to me, I don't do the "construction kit" thing.
Old 4 days ago
  #58
Here for the gear
 

I don't do the construction kit thing either, in fact I may have used their libraries a couple of times in total as construction loops stifle creativity for me. I had bought all these Libs from Big Fish probably 15 years ago when I was just starting out. I then did an audit of all my samp libs about a year ago, made a list of all the BFA Libs I had, emailed them and had their permission for production music use in a day or so. But as I said I haven't even used them since then lol.
Old 3 days ago
  #59
Gear Head
 

If your going to use one of those Construction Kits, you might as well paste Wav files of instrument performances off of albums too.

It's the same thing in my book.
Mentioned Products
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+  Submit Thread to Reddit Reddit 
 
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump