The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Finding A Publisher
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 
AmbientOne's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Finding A Publisher

For someone who is experienced in selling through libraries and landing syncs on TV, what advice would you give them to find a publisher? Or even connect directly with more music supervisors?

I'm a composer in the midwest. I have one "connection", who is a supervisor for a TV prod company. I make the rest of my sync money through small libraries that pay little to nothing. I've sent out hundreds of emails to music supervisors, but with no luck. What do you think is the best avenue for getting music heard?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbientOne View Post
What do you think is the best avenue for getting music heard?
What KIND of music? What direction?

Underscore?
Trailers?
Commercials?
Source?
Band Oriented?
Singer/Songwriter Oriented?


Your BEST avenue is the tried and true method. Espoused by our own friend John Fulford. What is it John would say?

COLD CALL!!!!

I'll add :
NETWORK
MAKE FRIENDS
STAY INVOLVED IN THE INDUSTRY

Alternatively, you could move to LA and try to slug it out with the other 5,000-10,000 composers there.....All of the above is easier to do in close proximity, and the odds go up just by being close.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbientOne View Post
I've sent out hundreds of emails to music supervisors,
You and thousands of others. Do something to stand out.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Here for the gear
 
AmbientOne's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
What KIND of music? What direction?

Underscore?
Trailers?
Commercials?
Source?
Band Oriented?
Singer/Songwriter Oriented?


Your BEST avenue is the tried and true method. Espoused by our own friend John Fulford. What is it John would say?
Bill, I've watched a lot of Fulford's videos. The most I've gotten from listening to him is to work.

My music is on 2 ends of the spectrum. One end: I write unique original full recording, band style music (similar to Explosions In The Sky). I write the songs out, mic a whole drum kit- I record real instruments in a real studio. This is what is different from what 99% of people do with their MIDI keyboards and Ableton.

The other end of the "spectrum", for example, would be when I received the ONLY brief I've ever gotten.. Recorded 20 songs in the specific style the client wanted, and landed most of them on TV. I laughed after listening because the music was so cheesy, I couldn't believe they used it.

I just don't know where people like Fulford get more briefs or tip sheets. If I had the outlet, I'd be selling music and sharing the revenue with whoever got me there.




PM me if you want to listen to what I've been selling.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbientOne View Post

I just don't know where people like Fulford get more briefs or tip sheets.
face to face meetings, industry events, randomly running into people around town.

I remember a few years ago a friend of mine and I went out to an executive 9 hole golf course in Studio City. The guy right behind us happened to be a music sup for the TV show Extra. We got to talking, he knew about me and the company I worked for and he was using our music all the time.

BUT!! if he he wasn't already using my music, it would have been a great opportunity to get his contract info and start sending him music for potential licensing on the show.

I know there are a lot of people on the web who extol the virtues of doing business over the internet. But there is just no substitute for face to face interactions. In other thread here I mentioned this same thing and Fullford jumped into the conversation and was talking about how he ended up meeting a music supervisor standing in line for something the day before (I forget what for) and how it will probably lead to more licensing for him.

John has been doing this for a while now. I remember seeing John at industry events years ago (maybe 7 or more years now?). He was at EVERY event. He was saying "hi" to people. He was helping the event organizers with registrations, he was mingling, he was doing presentations or on panels, he then started putting together his own panels... etc, etc, etc.

The thing is... when industry people start to see you at EVERY event. They start to really remember you. And if they weren't paying attention to you before, they start to over time because they just keep seeing you. Almost every music supervisor I talk to, knows John Fullford personally. They've hung out with him, had a beer with him, spoke at an event with him, ran into him at events, etc. He's a super cool guy, writes great music and had great production skills. So after meeting people and becoming friendly with them... when they finally do listen to his music, it's good and very usable... so he gets the licenses!

You just can't get that kind of interaction and camaraderie through the internet most of the time. And so when all of these music supervisors need music, John is one of the first people they think of and send the brief to... because they literally just saw him and hung with him a few days prior!
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
face to face meetings, industry events, randomly running into people around town.

I remember a few years ago a friend of mine and I went out to an executive 9 hole golf course in Studio City. The guy right behind us happened to be a music sup for the TV show Extra. We got to talking, he knew about me and the company I worked for and he was using our music all the time.

BUT!! if he he wasn't already using my music, it would have been a great opportunity to get his contract info and start sending him music for potential licensing on the show.

I know there are a lot of people on the web who extol the virtues of doing business over the internet. But there is just no substitute for face to face interactions. In other thread here I mentioned this same thing and Fullford jumped into the conversation and was talking about how he ended up meeting a music supervisor standing in line for something the day before (I forget what for) and how it will probably lead to more licensing for him.

John has been doing this for a while now. I remember seeing John at industry events years ago (maybe 7 or more years now?). He was at EVERY event. He was saying "hi" to people. He was helping the event organizers with registrations, he was mingling, he was doing presentations or on panels, he then started putting together his own panels... etc, etc, etc.

The thing is... when industry people start to see you at EVERY event. They start to really remember you. And if they weren't paying attention to you before, they start to over time because they just keep seeing you. Almost every music supervisor I talk to, knows John Fullford personally. They've hung out with him, had a beer with him, spoke at an event with him, ran into him at events, etc. He's a super cool guy, writes great music and had great production skills. So after meeting people and becoming friendly with them... when they finally do listen to his music, it's good and very usable... so he gets the licenses!

You just can't get that kind of interaction and camaraderie through the internet most of the time. And so when all of these music supervisors need music, John is one of the first people they think of and send the brief to... because they literally just saw him and hung with him a few days prior!
Cheaters! LMFAO!

There are no substitutes for face-to-face meetings.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Here for the gear
 
AmbientOne's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
face to face meetings, industry events, randomly running into people around town.
I completely understand this, but being in the Midwest, face-to-face meetings are virtually useless where I'm from...

I mean, I could go to some wedding expos and try to sell music for wedding films $100 a pop, but that just seems like a non-profitable risk I am not willing to waste time on.

I'm really just trying to dig into a few companies I can actually help by getting them affordable license with REAL music. Honestly, at this point, a few hundred bucks every couple weeks would really help out.

I know licensing in film/TV is not an overnight venture, but it would be great to have some sort of connection where I can at least sell more licenses in volume.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbientOne View Post
For someone who is experienced in selling through libraries and landing syncs on TV, what advice would you give them to find a publisher? Or even connect directly with more music supervisors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbientOne View Post
I completely understand this, but being in the Midwest, face-to-face meetings are virtually useless where I'm from...
Sorry I should have specified... face to face meetings is how you connect directly with music supervisors for the most part. A lot of them will respond to emails, but they usually have different email lists. If you contact them through the web only you get added to their cattle call email list. Which is maybe a start. But they might be sending those out to hundreds of people, and there is always a very short turn around time on them. Some music supervisors, because they get inundated with requests every day, will only take solicited submissions (which means, they met you in person and said, "yes please send me links to your music".

If you don't have the ability to meet music supervisors personally then your best bet is to start trying to connect with music libraries and publishing/licensing agents. We have a big thread going on about Songtradr, which is a publishing/licensing agent. There are also other resources out there to find out information about music libraries like Music Library Report (musiclibraryreport.com)and the Production Music Association (PMA – Production Music Association).

Different libraries have different target audiences/clientele. So you have to reach out to a lot of them to find out which ones work best with the music you write and produce.

I was on a panel once with Jeff Rona... He is a phenomenal composer and he is the owner of an incredibly successful catalog called Liquid Cinema. He started talking for a few minutes about how doing vocal songs is pointless because nobody ever uses the vocals, they only ever license the instrumental versions. His catalog did over 100 vocal songs and the vast majority of uses for them were the instrumental versions... but then I've had the opposite experience. A LOT of the placements I work on are songs where they are using the vocals. And songs with vocal requests are the biggest request that I hear. LOL So here you have one person saying "Don't do vocals, they are useless, nobody wants them..." and then you have another person saying "I need more vocal songs, 80% of all the requests I get are for vocals and over 50% (and rising) of all licensing I do is vocal songs." DOH! Who's right?!?!?! We both are because we service different clients and/or we are both known for different things.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Here for the gear
 
AmbientOne's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Yeah, that totally makes sense. Sounds like I just need to find the niche for my music.

Here's a link to some of my stuff: http://soundcloud.com/brennanstruif

If you guys have time to check it out, let me know if you have any feelings on what direction I might head with music like this.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Here for the gear
 
AmbientOne's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Yeah, that totally makes sense. Sounds like I just need to find the niche for my music.

Here's a link to some of my stuff: http://soundcloud.com/brennanstruif

If you guys have time to check it out, let me know if you have any feelings on what direction I might head with music like this.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Amber's Avatar
 

Second face to face meetings.

International flights to LA can't be that expensive?

I met up with Etch a year or so ago and he's 13 hours on a plane away. We barely talked about work, I'm pretty sure we just chatted about 80s hair metal for 3+ hours.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
...we just chatted about 80s hair metal for 3+ hours.
And I wasn't invited???? Bastards!!!!
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
Second face to face meetings.

International flights to LA can't be that expensive?

I met up with Etch a year or so ago and he's 13 hours on a plane away. We barely talked about work, I'm pretty sure we just chatted about 80s hair metal for 3+ hours.


And we talked about the difference between Mexican food in LA vs Mexican food in London! LOL I remember you saying the avocados in UK aren't that good. And I was complaining about how awful the salsa was in London. Hahahaha!

And we were laughing at how bad the service is too... you ordered a soda and they brought you a smoothie or something like that.

Anyway... hopefully I'll see you soon. Still working on getting approval for another round over there
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
And I wasn't invited???? Bastards!!!!
next time! I am hoping in November but it might end up being January or February.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
next time! I am hoping in November but it might end up being January or February.
I might just have to hold you to that!
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Here for the gear
I have basically just googled some libraries and looked up their placements if they fit into my music.
We have now one new track, which is (imo) our very best and should meet the "standards" and looking good home for it. I have reached out one library with email and they promised to pass it to the audioteam, but I see there are no any listenings yet.

How long time you would wait to move on to the next library?

My biggest challenge seems to be WRITING the pitch and the subject. It should be like basic thing to handle, but I find it really science even it´s not.
Old 1 week ago
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikproject View Post
I have basically just googled some libraries and looked up their placements if they fit into my music.
We have now one new track, which is (imo) our very best and should meet the "standards" and looking good home for it. I have reached out one library with email and they promised to pass it to the audioteam, but I see there are no any listenings yet.
Hmmm...googling libraries...

Aaaanyway...

FWIW...

I think a library is gonna find it hard to muster up the enthusiasm to listen and feedback on 1 track tbh.

I would forget that approach.

Do an album in your best style and punt that. It will give you a better chance imo.

Rule number 1 though, vet the library thoroughly! i.e. given that 99.72% of today's 'libraries' are just vast black holes of nothingness where gazillions of tracks go to die on a daily basis, make sure any intended library has a track record of getting stuff used and making their composers decent money!!

This info can be ascertained through extensive database/cue sheet research.

Just a general observation here after reading a few threads recently and not directed at the OP - IMO the endgame is not simply to place a track with a library. That is a vanity decision, not a business decision. I see alot of people content just to have stuff 'placed'.

The endgame surely is to make a career and good money for a comfortable life / secure future and for your music to see lots of action worldwide on thousands and thousands of different shows/ads/films etc.

So you have to be business-like and identify outlets that have the marketing power, reputation, class, legacy, budget, impeccable standards and worldwide army of hungry sub-publishers to make this happen.

'Vanity Placements' seem to be quite a thing at the moment.

IMO
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
Hmmm...googling libraries...

Aaaanyway...

FWIW...

I think a library is gonna find it hard to muster up the enthusiasm to listen and feedback on 1 track tbh.

I would forget that approach.

Do an album in your best style and punt that. It will give you a better chance imo.

Rule number 1 though, vet the library thoroughly! i.e. given that 99.72% of today's 'libraries' are just vast black holes of nothingness where gazillions of tracks go to die on a daily basis, make sure any intended library has a track record of getting stuff used and making their composers decent money!!

This info can be ascertained through extensive database/cue sheet research.

Just a general observation here after reading a few threads recently and not directed at the OP - IMO the endgame is not simply to place a track with a library. That is a vanity decision, not a business decision. I see alot of people content just to have stuff 'placed'.

The endgame surely is to make a career and good money for a comfortable life / secure future and for your music to see lots of action worldwide on thousands and thousands of different shows/ads/films etc.

So you have to be business-like and identify outlets that have the marketing power, reputation, class, legacy, budget, impeccable standards and worldwide army of hungry sub-publishers to make this happen.

'Vanity Placements' seem to be quite a thing at the moment.

IMO

Hey, thanks!

Googling, yes. Quite immediately you will find different articles relating pros and cons, size of the library etc etc. Then doing some research, dropping out the smallest libraries out, who only has small placements.
But, yeah well, some libraries are looking for your 1 to 3 best tracks at first, as "demos".
In this case, I approached to Extreme music with this one track and would like to know how long time you would wait to move on and send it to the next place.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikproject View Post
Hey, thanks!

Googling, yes. Quite immediately you will find different articles relating pros and cons, size of the library etc etc. Then doing some research, dropping out the smallest libraries out, who only has small placements.
But, yeah well, some libraries are looking for your 1 to 3 best tracks at first, as "demos".
In this case, I approached to Extreme music with this one track and would like to know how long time you would wait to move on and send it to the next place.
Extreme are very good! However, be prepared for the fact they may never get back to you.

FWIW...IMO...etc...etc...

Waaaay back in the day when I used to send demos out I found that if you didn't get a reply within 2 days you weren't gonna get one. Of course, there may well be exceptions but in the main I found this to be true. I don't send demos out any more so things may have changed.

If you sent the track in to Extreme via a connected party, or spoke to a producer directly who asked you to send stuff in then you should get a reply. If you have sent in the track unsolicited I will be very surprised if you hear back.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
Extreme are very good! However, be prepared for the fact they may never get back to you.

FWIW...IMO...etc...etc...

Waaaay back in the day when I used to send demos out I found that if you didn't get a reply within 2 days you weren't gonna get one. Of course, there may well be exceptions but in the main I found this to be true. I don't send demos out any more so things may have changed.

If you sent the track in to Extreme via a connected party, or spoke to a producer directly who asked you to send stuff in then you should get a reply. If you have sent in the track unsolicited I will be very surprised if you hear back.
Thanks, this is what I was looking for and yes it would be quite big thing if they would response. So I will move on to next one.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikproject View Post
Thanks, this is what I was looking for and yes it would be quite big thing if they would response. So I will move on to next one.
IMO...

FWIW...

Don't send stuff out to the big libraries unsolicited tho dude. They will never listen. They a) don't have time and b) have all the composers they need to cover all musical genres. Try and connect to the people. Take them for lunch / network / meet the peeps etc.

Of course, stuff can be sent unsolicited to crap libraries but hey, who wants stuff with a crap library. I'd much rather something be difficult to get stuff into. Shows that the bar is high.

Good luck dude!
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
IMO...

FWIW...

Don't send stuff out to the big libraries unsolicited tho dude. They will never listen. They a) don't have time and b) have all the composers they need to cover all musical genres. Try and connect to the people. Take them for lunch / network / meet the peeps etc.

Of course, stuff can be sent unsolicited to crap libraries but hey, who wants stuff with a crap library. I'd much rather something be difficult to get stuff into. Shows that the bar is high.

Good luck dude!
Thanks for advice! I don't randomly just bombing emails, I try to find out if there's email for submissions, or like in this case with Extreme music, at first I asked if they are accepting submissions and proceeded from that.
And no, I don't want to get tracks just into any library
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikproject View Post
Thanks for advice! I don't randomly just bombing emails, I try to find out if there's email for submissions, or like in this case with Extreme music, at first I asked if they are accepting submissions and proceeded from that.
And no, I don't want to get tracks just into any library
Sounds like you have the right approach dude! You should go far
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
Sounds like you have the right approach dude! You should go far
Much appreciated, I really hope so!
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post


And we talked about the difference between Mexican food in LA vs Mexican food in London! LOL I remember you saying the avocados in UK aren't that good. And I was complaining about how awful the salsa was in London. Hahahaha!

And we were laughing at how bad the service is too... you ordered a soda and they brought you a smoothie or something like that.

Anyway... hopefully I'll see you soon. Still working on getting approval for another round over there
I totally forgot about the smoothie thing... and their vegan option was maybe the worst meal I've ever eaten. Thank god for good conversation and the nostalgia of hair metal!
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
Arcana's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikproject View Post
Thanks for advice! I don't randomly just bombing emails, I try to find out if there's email for submissions, or like in this case with Extreme music, at first I asked if they are accepting submissions and proceeded from that.
And no, I don't want to get tracks just into any library
Wait.. You asked Extreme if they accept submissions and they said yes?
You must be quite convincing cause that's further than most people get with them. After all, they got guys like Quincy Jones, Snoop Dogg and other a-listers writing for them.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikproject View Post
How long time you would wait to move on to the next library?
Immediately. This is a business. you do not own exclusivity to any library until they contract you for the music.

Send it out to as many libraries as you can and see who bites. Extreme Music offers a great deal/contract to composers (but don't get suckered into writing for Bleeding Fingers, which is a different composer deal and is not very good for the composer). So if you can get it, great! But if they take 9 months to get back to you and offer you a contract... you really aren't expected to wait that long. If you end up placing the cue somewhere else, you can tell them, "Hey, another catalog heard the cue and they are interested in it. Do you have any interest in the track because I would prefer to sign with you?" Something like that.

At the end of the day this is a business and you need to make a living doing it. Unless they are putting you on some sort of retainer or monthly salary, you do not owe them anything and do not have to "wait" for them to get back to you before you send music out to another catalog.

Think of it like sending out resumes. When you are trying to find a job do you send out ONE resume to ONE company... and then wait until you hear back from them before you sen out another resume to one other company... and then wait until you hear back to them, and so on? If you did that it could take you years to find a job.

Same with shopping music. Send it to any and all libraries you think it would well with and see if you get a response. You can always write more music, right? It's not like writing this one cue took you 20 years and it's going to take you another 20 years to right your next piece of music. So just crank out music and send it out. If someone jumps on a track and then months later someone else contacts you about the same track just tell them another company has already picked up that track but you can write another one in the same feel/genre/style as that one for them ASAP.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
I might just have to hold you to that!
Sure. I'll let you know. You are more than welcome to come and hang with us if you can make it out there. It would be fun!
Old 1 week ago
  #29
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Immediately. This is a business. you do not own exclusivity to any library until they contract you for the music.

Send it out to as many libraries as you can and see who bites. Extreme Music offers a great deal/contract to composers (but don't get suckered into writing for Bleeding Fingers, which is a different composer deal and is not very good for the composer). So if you can get it, great! But if they take 9 months to get back to you and offer you a contract... you really aren't expected to wait that long. If you end up placing the cue somewhere else, you can tell them, "Hey, another catalog heard the cue and they are interested in it. Do you have any interest in the track because I would prefer to sign with you?" Something like that.

At the end of the day this is a business and you need to make a living doing it. Unless they are putting you on some sort of retainer or monthly salary, you do not owe them anything and do not have to "wait" for them to get back to you before you send music out to another catalog.

Think of it like sending out resumes. When you are trying to find a job do you send out ONE resume to ONE company... and then wait until you hear back from them before you sen out another resume to one other company... and then wait until you hear back to them, and so on? If you did that it could take you years to find a job.

Same with shopping music. Send it to any and all libraries you think it would well with and see if you get a response. You can always write more music, right? It's not like writing this one cue took you 20 years and it's going to take you another 20 years to right your next piece of music. So just crank out music and send it out. If someone jumps on a track and then months later someone else contacts you about the same track just tell them another company has already picked up that track but you can write another one in the same feel/genre/style as that one for them ASAP.
Thanks for your reply. This actually cleared everything out quite much!
Old 1 week ago
  #30
Here for the gear
 
AmbientOne's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post


And we talked about the difference between Mexican food in LA vs Mexican food in London!
Try Mexican food in Illinois... Still digesting the chorizo and it hasn't disappointed.... yet.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+  Submit Thread to Reddit Reddit 
 
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump