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Audiojungle and the debate over microstock
Old 21st October 2013
  #1
Audiojungle and the debate over microstock

We touched on this topic in another thread but the conversation was a bit off topic... SO lets try this again. Please keep it informative and respectful. No snippy insults without facts to back it up.


I see more and more composers entering into the licensing game without any background in the business of licensing. They usually don't know the market rates or the contractual terms. Often, they might not have registered with a PRO and definitely don't have a publishing company. Enter companies like Audiojungle (mircostock library which demands non-pro registered tracks).

I don't understand why composers are so willing to accept the terms and prices provided with Audiojungle or other microstock sites. The details.... You create the music. You can either enter into an exclusive deal or non-exclusive deal. Both require that you never register this track with a PRO like ASCAP or BMI.... or SoundExchange for that matter. The exclusive deal gives you 50% of the sync fee. The non-ex deal gives the composer 30% of the sync fee. There are never back-end royalties.

If these tracks were selling for $100 a pop.... I might understand. The tracks max price is $17 and the minimum is $13. That means at most the composer can make $7.50 per usage. There are no limits on usage from the client end.... More money can be earned IF the client buys an extended license for about $80. The difference... $17 is single use. $80 is all media with reuse. That means they could use the track 1000 times.... and you make $45. Again... this sucks from my vantage point.

I license tracks direct to clients and through higher-tier libraries regularly.... these fees are at a minimum $150 per sync. Even if I split with a library that's $75 for me. I can live with this. I can feed my family this way. On the high-end... I've sold "extended license" type deals for $5000 per track.

Math time.... How many Audiojungle cuts would it take to hit my $5000 license? 667.... Think about this.... It's possible to sell one sync to a company for that amount or you could try to sell 667 cuts for the same price. How can this be a good career choice or business model?

If this were 667 sales from the same track it might make sense but from what I've seen the average user has one or two tracks with 10-20 sales. Using 15 sales as an average, that means the composer produced 44 tracks to make $5000. That means writing more than 1 track per day for a solid month to make $5000 in the future (maybe). Great for the hobbyist.... terrible for real producers.

I'm interested to learn more from the other side. How much money have you made from Audiojungle? Are you making a living with those fees? Have you done the math? Anyone else feel these sites really hurt the composer?

We haven't even touched on how much is lost in performance royalties.
Old 21st October 2013
  #2
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drBill's Avatar
Arrrgh....

Another sad tale of composers being beat down so far that they'll accept almost anything. That, and no entry level avenues in for new composers, so they will accept almost anything.

One thing I'm confused on though is the stipulation that the music can't be PRO registered. If it is in their exclusive use, then obviously it won't matter to the composer, but if it's non exclusive, then why? Why not just use a direct license so other avenues can still be PRO associated? I know that BMI allows for a "direct license", but every time a composer takes that approach (or the non registering approach of these sites), they are catastrophically eroding our last line of survival - back end royalties.

Why do people sign up for these things? Do they not understand how this business works?
Old 21st October 2013
  #3
Right as rain Bill. I don't think people really understand.... or they are just willing to believe that big money doesn't happen anymore because of technology (I beg to differ).

Seriously though.... I'm not putting people down... I'm trying to engage a conversation to say "think about this for a minute." Maybe you're one of the guys who can make Audiojungle really work for you. There are a few producers who have sold tons of tracks through this site..... but I think that is the minority flag flown high above camp Audiojungle by their marketing dept.

Again... would love to hear the other side in this conversation.
Old 21st October 2013
  #4
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drBill's Avatar
There's always new ways to look at things, you're right about that. For instance, my "old school" view on royalties was always "get paid up front" and then experience the "back end" down the road. These days, my "front end" "royalties" (sync buyouts really) are starting to be much more respectable. And with the decline of BMI/ASCAP towards media composers, I wouldn't be surprised if someday the front end eclipsed the back end. But I don't think that will happen at $17 a track.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Right as rain Bill. I don't think people really understand.... or they are just willing to believe that big money doesn't happen anymore because of technology (I beg to differ).

Seriously though.... I'm not putting people down... I'm trying to engage a conversation to say "think about this for a minute." Maybe you're one of the guys who can make Audiojungle really work for you. There are a few producers who have sold tons of tracks through this site..... but I think that is the minority flag flown high above camp Audiojungle by their marketing dept.

Again... would love to hear the other side in this conversation.
Well...

I just started composing back in March of this year and had no clue--no clue at all--about the business side of things. I went with Audiojungle because it was a quick, easy way to make residual income off of pieces that I wrote for other clients (I made sure my clients knew that the stuff I wrote for them would be sold elsewhere).

Honestly, I think it was a good way for me to get my pieces out there quickly and start a little bit of brand recognition. A *few* pros hang out on Audiojungle, and I've started to get to know a few of them. I've sold a few tracks as well, but my stuff is a bit too filmic; 98% of Audiojungle's clients are looking for good ad pieces. Most of the pieces I write are for film.

So for a composer who's *just* starting off, I think places like AJ can be helpful. That said, I recently had a member over at Jingle Punks message me and told me (adamantly) to get my stuff off of AJ and over to Jingle Punks. I applied a couple weeks ago and haven't heard back--apparently it can take up to the 3 weeks but I'm certainly not holding my breath--and if I make the cut, I'll be done with AJ.

I realize that you've been in the industry for a while, and while you may have plenty of contacts, guys like me don't (well, thankfully that's starting to change a little bit). I'm not belittling the grind you had to go through to get where you are now, but it's often hard to remember the grind the way it actually was. Kinda like me explaining to someone the other day who had never worked in Logic--let alone any recording software--how to use certain features as if it was easy as pie. The fact is, when I first started off, it looked like Greek and it took me an hour to figure out how to load up an instrument

So yeah, I think AJ is a cool place for A) hobbyists who want to make a bit of extra $$ on the side and/or just get their music out there and/or B) composers who have no contacts whatsoever but have something to offer in the world of soundtrack composition.

Just my $.02. Good discussion topic.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #6
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philososaxter View Post
So yeah, I think AJ is a cool place for A) hobbyists who want to make a bit of extra $$ on the side and/or just get their music out there and/or B) composers who have no contacts whatsoever but have something to offer in the world of soundtrack composition.

Just my $.02. Good discussion topic.

I dig what your'e saying, but there are other places that :

A.) Sell more
B.) Sell @ higher prices
C.) Allow backend royalties while retaining publishing
D.) Have a better percentage rate (50% and you can be NON exclusive)

That's the way I see it. I do mainstream libraries, but if there are options out there that are better and are open to guys starting out, why not start out smart?

Guys learn quick - backend royalties are the BACKBONE of survival if you're a composer. Loose those, and you are far worse off.

The only thing that those two could do better than a dozen other libraries would be to sell your tracks 25 times for every 1 time on another library - making up for the low selling price and the zero backend.

Even then, their exclusion of PRO participation weakens everything we work for. A double hit.

I think that's what Spidey was looking for. Who's doing serious numbers on those two sites in a way that makes up for the low price, no back end.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #7
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here is a situation i have to deal with quite often:

client: here is a short web-feature, ad, whatever, needs a voice over and background music - oh and we have no budget for proper music-licencing..
can you find some music on audiojungle and licence it for us?

at this point, most of my clients are aware of sites like audiojungle and save up the licencing budget or put it elsewhere in the project... graphics, animations, well known vo-talents

finding good music on audiojungle is a hit and miss most of the time and search-functions are almost non-exsistent

i see a big trend towards down-valuing music in the media industry, at least in my corner of the world

my 2ct
Old 23rd October 2013
  #8
I hope you're at least charging them full hourly rate while you search.....
(my nightmare is that you just say OK and spend an hour searching AJ for free just so you can seem like a "nice guy" for the client)
Old 23rd October 2013
  #9
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..don´t worry i do!
usually i have a good budget to work with that would easily cover music searches/selection
Old 23rd October 2013
  #10
That's funny... and telling in regard to American culture and the value placed on music....

Not enough money to license music for a fair percentage, but enough money to pay someone $100/hr (or more) to search for the right track. It's a world of lazy bastards and desperate musicians willing to give it away for cheap.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #11
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awkward, yes.. but at least my working time gets valued (and that is how it should be)

but there is another thing that attracts clients to aj:
they dont have to deal with over comlicated licencing tasks and royalties wenn dealing with pro publishers (at least here in germany with gema!)
so they can go on and publish their stuff in asia or elsewhere without re-licencing, asking for permissions and so on.
this is all easily possible with the licencing scemes aj offers

don´t get me wrong - i am not defendig this buisness model and where things are going.. i do music writing jobs (usually full buyout deals)
but they get fewer each year, so actually i am shooting myself in the foot everytime i deal with aj and the like

but if i don´t do it, the next guy arround the corner is waiting already..
Old 23rd October 2013
  #12
I get the GEMA thing... but there are other companies that handle that without microstock sync pricing. SoundTaxi for one, has a portion of their catalog pre-cleared for non-pro (GEMA proof) deals.... but they are charging what could be considered normal rates for these tracks.

By normal I mean the rate varies based on usage. I have no problem offering a $17 sync for a student YouTube video.... but a $17 sync for a national commercial that has a $200,000 budget is stupid. The producers spend more on coffee and chocolates for the interns on that gig.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #13
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i know sound taxi and i will use they´re catalogue of non-pro material whenever i can..

but when dealing with aj, at least i try to talk my clients into the extended licences - for them to be on the "safe" side..
Old 23rd October 2013
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by androlic View Post
i know sound taxi and i will use they´re catalogue of non-pro material whenever i can..

but when dealing with aj, at least i try to talk my clients into the extended licences - for them to be on the "safe" side..
Thats Good to hear!
I have more material ready to go to Soundtaxi.Dont use AJ.....
Soundtaxi put me through one hell of a submission process, but now we sell often there.
I have my biggest license yet through them,and now we are considering giving them exclusive material.
Just last week we had two tracks licensed group 2,I will bill them for a handful of tracks licensed coming November, and other licenses sold this month too..
We only give tracks to companies that sell for us.A handful of them,but others just don't get new material if they have not sold some of what we have at other various sites.
Eventually what will happen is people who put there music where they can't make any money may drop off as time goes on.
What's the point,for a few dollars but I admit they add up if you have a lot of sales that are cheap.Then you are playing right into their game.......
I can see giving AJ the rejected tracks but music is entirely subjective!
You know if you like it or not.....
Old 23rd October 2013
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I dig what your'e saying, but there are other places that :

A.) Sell more
B.) Sell @ higher prices
C.) Allow backend royalties while retaining publishing
D.) Have a better percentage rate (50% and you can be NON exclusive)

That's the way I see it. I do mainstream libraries, but if there are options out there that are better and are open to guys starting out, why not start out smart?

Guys learn quick - backend royalties are the BACKBONE of survival if you're a composer. Loose those, and you are far worse off.

The only thing that those two could do better than a dozen other libraries would be to sell your tracks 25 times for every 1 time on another library - making up for the low selling price and the zero backend.

Even then, their exclusion of PRO participation weakens everything we work for. A double hit.

I think that's what Spidey was looking for. Who's doing serious numbers on those two sites in a way that makes up for the low price, no back end.
Which services would you recommend?
Old 24th October 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
The details.... You create the music. You can either enter into an exclusive deal or non-exclusive deal. Both require that you never register this track with a PRO like ASCAP or BMI.... or SoundExchange for that matter. The exclusive deal gives you 50% of the sync fee. The non-ex deal gives the composer 30% of the sync fee. There are never back-end royalties.
Yeah thats by far the most off-putting thing. If I wasn't allowed to have my tracks registered on the PRS database with the minimum 50% performance royalties going to me I would not be amused.

Though I suppose, if I had material just sitting on the shelf that no-one else seemed interested in and it was just doing nothing, why not let someone like that have it.... however... then I'd question whether the quality of the material is particuarly good enough and do I want my name associated to lesser material?. After all, if it was good enough, wouldn't they better music libraries have taken it up in the first place?.
Thats something I'm still thinking about, is it better to get all the music you believe in just 'out there', or is it actually better to keep some stuff permanently on your own hard drive because it wasn't deemed either good enough or apropriate enough for libraries.

I'm still a total newbie to this world of music production library stuff though, only just starting out with my first track online on Extreme Music with another one to follow in the next couple weeks.
Old 25th October 2013
  #17
Gear Nut
 

I was already in the process of questioning libraries. More people making money on the back of composers and musicians. For 100€ per track? Dont see the use of those new parasites. Was already disgusted.
Buyouts seems ok @ 5000$. But what's the point? If you are a film producer and you dont have a composer in your phonebook who can make you a specific cue for 5000$, you obviously have a problem.

Wasnt aware of this kind of "New deals ". 17$/track. No royalties... Is this some kind of sick joke?
Why on hearth would you sell your music for that price?
That's not even for better tomorrows... This wont give you no better gigs in the future or whatever.
This wont earn you a living.
I really cant see the point.
I'm a nobody in the business and hopefully i dont rely on composition and production to live now. I teach and play music and make an ok living. I get some money on top of that with my productions. And if i manage to get a serious phonebook and enough contracts, -which i work a lot for beside my daily jobs- I will probably consider making the switch.
But i will never beg for ten dollars for my music. Not before i'm in a situation of... Well, being a beggar.
Even then i might consider flipping burgers and enjoying music in my free time. Better than to make profit for useless parasites while being paid minimum wage (not even sure) for a 20+ years of music experience and education.

The end of the music business and professional musicianship will come from this generation which i belong to and sells itself for peanuts.
Approving of this old adage which several generations fought to prove wrong: art is nothing but a hobby.

Cant see how you can plan a life with that kind of income for sure.

And it sincerely saddens me.

To the older ones, I Hope you will work well 'til retirement without being too much hit by all of that.

/Rant over
Old 26th October 2013
  #18
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzle View Post
Which services would you recommend?
A lot of good information can be found here:
Music Library Report

Libraries are reviewed and commented on by composers. You need to sign up to view
Old 27th October 2013
  #19
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First, let me say that I work as a full-time composer and sound-man for a TV station here in Serbia; I also have enough experience in releasing music and selling music for media to be aware that prices and politics towards artists on AJ are not the best in the world...I'm 42 and, living in a turbulent country and society, I've seen artists got screwed and not paid enough all the time and treated like clowns (with all the respect to that beautifull profession).
Anyway, while working on a promo for Real Madrid-Barcelona football game, my friend from work who is After Effects artist told me about AJ and it's sister site Videohive, where he is selling his stuff. So, I went for a little research and had a look at many libraries, made inquiries, sent some mails. I've seen that competition is immense, more in quantity than in quality, though. Good 80% of tracks I've heard sounded like a rough demo and consequently, was not selling at all and was gathering virtual dust. There were some exceptional artists, too, some of them doing fine, some of them not.
So, I decided to test waters (is that corect phrase?) and see how my music sells on AJ and 3-4 other similarily priced sites (up to 30$ for a track). Let me remind you: with all it's faults, AJ is not the cheapest site out there. There are sites selling tracks for 2$ (that's right, 2 dollars).
I've started doing this last year and so far sold about 130 licenses, vast majority of them on AJ. I repeat: I know pricing is not fair. But, with all my research and (limited) knowledge about library music, I couldn't find a site which is fairly priced, non-exclusive, allows PROs and is selling as much as AJ. If there are, please let
me know.
Being in my second year of library music, I'm still testing waters and trying to find what and where is selling. With only 12 tracks in the market, I'm partially satisfied with results (partially, because I know I'm being screwed). My plan is to get my music heard and get some bigger gigs from it. What I find most iritating on AJ is PRO issue, so my next step is creating some music for sites with PRO option. Don't know when will this happen, though, as I have fairly limited time for composing (besides having full time job, I'm father of a 20 months old baby boy).
Let's keep this thread active, I'm very curious to hear insights from more experienced guys. Cheers!
Old 27th October 2013
  #20
Sites like this are not meant to provide a living for composers.

They are created to help the client, not the composers. The composers that have a large catalog of non-PRO music to license will benefit the most. But even then, most will not be able to make a living from posting music on microstock sites.

I just do not understand why composers that do not participate in these sites have such strong and negative viewpoints about them. Any serious composer with a PRO does not suffer from sites like this. There is no direct competition.

I just do not want composers to start getting frustrated about the microstock sites. They are excellent solutions for the clients with small budgets and a limited distribution. I often use these sites to buy cool photos for when I make my own videos. The quality is great for the money. I think these microstock sites are great!
Old 27th October 2013
  #21
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Sites like this are not meant to provide a living for composers.

They are created to help the client, not the composers. The composers that have a large catalog of non-PRO music to license will benefit the most. But even then, most will not be able to make a living from posting music on microstock sites.

I just do not understand why composers that do not participate in these sites have such strong and negative viewpoints about them. Any serious composer with a PRO does not suffer from sites like this. There is no direct competition.

I just do not want composers to start getting frustrated about the microstock sites. They are excellent solutions for the clients with small budgets and a limited distribution. I often use these sites to buy cool photos for when I make my own videos. The quality is great for the money. I think these microstock sites are great!

I would like to agree with you mate. I really really do.
But i think that those kind of sites really encourage potential clients to think that music for their work should cost nearly nothing.
Anytime they have the occasion they will bypass any better alternative for composers and go for stock music.

In fact it's true for anything you can have in microstock. You take photo as an example. Man, i know so much pro photographer who are made fun of when they ask for a normal payment for their job...

Before those sites, you hired younger composers, with lower rates if you were on a budget.

Today people think as long as your job has an artistic value and you can find a not so bad version of it for nearly free, you worth nothing.
At least, they will bypass you as much as they can. And i cant think they're wrong... I would probably do the same...

That's stupid and i get your point. But sadly, from my experience that's not how it works.
And i got it coming from film staff. people with artistic background, with a certain sensitivity, a sense of quality, an education...

Last but not least, even for people that are not pro, those rates are totally criminal.
Good for the clients if they are not going to make a lot of profit with their project. I agree.
But that's not the case. A lot of this music is used in place of composer music for big or decent money stuff.
And i don't even wanna talk about the people that run those libraries companies and the paycheck they get every month.


@Implant: i listened to your music. That's cool mate. Keep working.
I won't bother listening to other music on AJ but i guess you are on the top of the quality they can propose. Hence the decent number of sells.
I wish you to get on better libraries or getting better freelance jobs.
Old 27th October 2013
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busdriver View Post
I would like to agree with you mate. I really really do.
But i think that those kind of sites really encourage potential clients to think that music for their work should cost nearly nothing.
Anytime they have the occasion they will bypass any better alternative for composers and go for stock music.

In fact it's true for anything you can have in microstock. You take photo as an example. Man, i know so much pro photographer who are made fun of when they ask for a normal payment for their job...

Before those sites, you hired younger composers, with lower rates if you were on a budget.

Today people think as long as your job has an artistic value and you can find a not so bad version of it for nearly free, you worth nothing.
At least, they will bypass you as much as they can. And i cant think they're wrong... I would probably do the same...

That's stupid and i get your point. But sadly, from my experience that's not how it works.
And i got it coming from film staff. people with artistic background, with a certain sensitivity, a sense of quality, an education...

Last but not least, even for people that are not pro, those rates are totally criminal.
Good for the clients if they are not going to make a lot of profit with their project. I agree.
But that's not the case. A lot of this music is used in place of composer music for big or decent money stuff.
And i don't even wanna talk about the people that run those libraries companies and the paycheck they get every month.


@Implant: i listened to your music. That's cool mate. Keep working.
I won't bother listening to other music on AJ but i guess you are on the top of the quality they can propose. Hence the decent number of sells.
I wish you to get on better libraries or getting better freelance jobs.
Thanks for listening my man, and for kind words. I wish you success and all the luck!
You got some strong points in your post; more or less, that's how things work. The problem with a good number of bigger libraries is that they are so over-saturated with submissions and are already full, they won't even bother listening. And if they do, they demand exclusivity. Sorry, but that's not OK. I'm waiting for answer from one of those libraries for 4 months already...
Old 27th October 2013
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by implant View Post
You got some strong points in your post; more or less, that's how things work. The problem with a good number of bigger libraries is that they are so over-saturated with submissions and are already full, they won't even bother listening. And if they do, they demand exclusivity. Sorry, but that's not OK. I'm waiting for answer from one of those libraries for 4 months already...
Exactly!
Old 27th October 2013
  #24
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by implant View Post
Sorry, but that's not OK. I'm waiting for answer from one of those libraries for 4 months already...
Really? 4 months? I'm sorry dude. This is not meant as a criticism, but working and being successful in this field is a LONG TERM game. 4 months is nothing. It took me close to 15 years to break into one library. If you view things in the short term and take quick payoffs like the two libraries mentioned here instead of doing the long hard work, you do yourself a dis-service and will almost certainly be frustrated in the long term. I wish you best of luck and success but don't sell out. It only hurts you and your future.
Old 27th October 2013
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Really? 4 months? I'm sorry dude. This is not meant as a criticism, but working and being successful in this field is a LONG TERM game. 4 months is nothing. It took me close to 15 years to break into one library. If you view things in the short term and take quick payoffs like the two libraries mentioned here instead of doing the long hard work, you do yourself a dis-service and will almost certainly be frustrated in the long term. I wish you best of luck and success but don't sell out. It only hurts you and your future.
@Implant:

i think that is one of a few problems here. They are saturated.
So anyway even if you get in, you'll probably struggle to sell anything.
I guess.
I don't think their answering time to composers are specificly a problem though.
If they don't answer, they are probably not interested or saturated.
Dont rage about it, keep going, investigate other libraries, go back to them by mail or whatever.
After all this debate in here, i took some time today to investigate this library world and on one site i found a comment of the staff saying that they got hundreds of submission every week and that they were trying to answer as much as possible.

@DrBill:

I think you are no talking about the same subject. Implant isn't looking after getting a good status in any library in four month. There is no comparison with your work history and the time you spent getting to where you are now.
He is just waiting for an answer from a specific library staff. And i guess i answered him just sooner about that.

Anyway, i follow your posts on GS for some time now (not like creepy read everything you post, keep cool =D) and you seem to have a fair amount of experience in the field.
Would you mind sharing a bit of advanced advice on this library thing?
Maybe the ones you find worth working for, or the way you made thing work for you. IDK.
I know there is no shortcut and that this business is so hard you dont want people to rush in your niche by hundreds.
But a bit of mentoring is always cool.

Keep it up guys.
Old 27th October 2013
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Really? 4 months? I'm sorry dude. This is not meant as a criticism, but working and being successful in this field is a LONG TERM game. 4 months is nothing. It took me close to 15 years to break into one library. If you view things in the short term and take quick payoffs like the two libraries mentioned here instead of doing the long hard work, you do yourself a dis-service and will almost certainly be frustrated in the long term. I wish you best of luck and success but don't sell out. It only hurts you and your future.
Yeah, I know that this is a marathon, I don't have a problem with patience. But, I don't think that 4 months is ok for a simple answer to my submission, even if answer is no. And we're not talking about first-class library, I'd say it's somewhere in the middle. Breaking into library after 15 years is ok, if it didn't took them 15 years just to answer to your first submission, I guess you tried many times and succeded, congrats! I also don't have a problem with being denied and trying again.
As for selling out...I don't know Doctor Bill, I'm still exploring options. I repeat again, I know I am being screwed. The thing is, I still don't know of a library that is fair priced, non-exclusive, with quick and easy submission process, PRO friendly and sells as much as AJ. If I find it, I will certainly reconsider my strategy.
Old 27th October 2013
  #27
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I think you've got more chance of getting music in adverts through music agencies than getting really successful from a big library.

The quality of music in a couple of them is extremely good. Better than a lot of big films scores IMO.

I was checking out Daniel Pembertons music on the Universal music library. He has over 700 tracks and they're all top notch.
Old 27th October 2013
  #28
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Thanks, Amber! What music agencies would you recommend?
Old 27th October 2013
  #29
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Not going to list them all here, but there's a few in London. Google is your friend.

Follow one on Twitter and the rest will probably suggested for you to follow. Let the technology do the work sometimes ;-)
Old 27th October 2013
  #30
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by implant View Post
Yeah, I know that this is a marathon, I don't have a problem with patience. But, I don't think that 4 months is ok for a simple answer to my submission, even if answer is no. And we're not talking about first-class library, I'd say it's somewhere in the middle. Breaking into library after 15 years is ok, if it didn't took them 15 years just to answer to your first submission, I guess you tried many times and succeded, congrats! I also don't have a problem with being denied and trying again.
As for selling out...I don't know Doctor Bill, I'm still exploring options. I repeat again, I know I am being screwed. The thing is, I still don't know of a library that is fair priced, non-exclusive, with quick and easy submission process, PRO friendly and sells as much as AJ. If I find it, I will certainly reconsider my strategy.
If they haven't answered you, I would keep contacting them. And you're right, it didn't take 15 years to hear back. But it did take that long to get noticed. You've got to work the angles, no doubt about it. This is NOT an easy business, and it's the VERY long term game plan you must look for.

You need to mix up your involvement with multiple (the more the better) libraries, write for non exclusive if you can't get into the exclusives, write ALL kinds of different styles, write current styles, and "evergreen" styles, write for the euro libraries and the US libraries, write drama, write action, write for reality cable TV, write for feature film and just keep at it. One tune a day if possible. Since Christmas last year, I have written, recorded, overdubbed and mixed over 320 songs. I expect I will get close to 350 this year, but moving my residence and studio may mess me up for hitting that goal. If you can't pull that kind of weight, you need to strive towards it. Library work is a numbers game, pure and simple. I used to say you needed 1000 songs in play to earn a basic income on back end royalties. The deteriorating royalty situation is making me rethink that. I've revised it to 1500 songs in play to make a living. Can you hang on that long to realize your potential income?

And one very important thing..... If you plan to be doing this in 10, 20 or 30 years, you MUST do what you can to keep royalties alive and healthy. If you join audiojungle or like minded sites, you may get a little experience now, maybe make a little cash now, but you are quite literally undermining your future. As the "value" of music decreases, so will your ability to sustain a living writing music - you'll need 3-4,000 songs to earn a living. Hold fast to fair deals, or you are cutting your own throat.

As for where to submit to, musiclibrary.com is your friend. Good luck. bp
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