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Audiojungle and the debate over microstock
Old 5th May 2016
  #151
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteGJ
Hmm. I wish information on this was more clear. It makes sense, but is it actually the case? I see a lot of non-excl. stuff finding it's way into films and TV. Could you say a bit more? Are you saying that established non-excl. libs such as Crucial are suffering from this move to excl. only?
If you follow the industry closely... it is pretty clear. Disney personnel have publicly stated that all their properties (Disney, Lucas, ABC, ESPN, etc) are not allowed to license from RF non-exclusive catalogs.

I can't comment on Crucial... but a company of that size probably has multiple catalog formats... maybe they have some exclusive, non-exclusive, and public domain. There are several large players like this... Jingle Punks, Score Keepers, etc.

Non-exclusive libraries aren't going anywhere... they will always do well in the low-priced economy of music licensing. There will always be lots of Kevin Macleod's and creative-commons folks just giving it away.

But big players.... they don't want the hassle of messy music rights management. After the last few years, the industry has learned that RF non-exclusive licensing can be more of a problem and those people are willing to pay more for clean and clear rights management.
Old 5th May 2016
  #152
Gear Addict
 

Thanks Spiderman. It's a tricky business from the composers end, that's for sure. Just as well, otherwise everyone would be.. oh.
Old 6th May 2016
  #153
Quote:
Originally Posted by DomBeken View Post
Great thread...

I've been looking into this in detail since some of my regular clients mentioned that they couldn't resist the $19.99 all you could eat licence buffet (and being in the games industry, they are not hugely sympathetic to the idea of copyright and royalties.)

Re-reading my contract from joining the PRS though, there is (to my reading at least) no opt-out from your ownership of your own copyright, so by submitting material to AudioJungle, you'd be breaking the terms of your PRS membership. In other words you can't be a professional British composer/producer AND contribute to AudioJungle without forfeiting ALL of your performing and mechanical royalties.

The same weird contradiction exists over Soundcloud, which is why the PRS is currently in court against them...
Not sure I follow you on this. Audio Jungle reports your PRS affiliation with clients and any Audio Jungle track used in broadcast has to list the Audio Jungle music on the cue sheet as far as I know. Does Audio Jungle have a Performance-Free section too? I haven't come across that yet, although to be honest I don't ever spend any real time on the AJ site.

But that was the point I was making, these RF sites are not actually RF. They still charge a license royalty when the scope of the project exceeds the license given. And they still require cue sheets and listing composer PRO information. The last time I checked AJ's website, they fell into this category, where they were only RF in name really.
Old 6th May 2016
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Not sure I follow you on this. Audio Jungle reports your PRS affiliation with clients and any Audio Jungle track used in broadcast has to list the Audio Jungle music on the cue sheet as far as I know. Does Audio Jungle have a Performance-Free section too?
Actually ALL of AJ is performance-free.
Performance Rights Organizations | AudioJungle Community Forums

Maybe things have changed since the above thread... and since I last really looked into this... but you'll see the Evanto Team personal's response...

Quote:
Hey guys, seems like the question has already been answered – no, PRO registered music is NOT allowed to be sold as royalty-free music on AudioJungle. This has always been mentioned at the very top of our upload instructions page:

http://wiki.envato.com/basics/audioj...-instructions/
Tim asked “why not?” The main point from the very beginning was that we wanted AudioJungle customers to be absolutely sure that what they purchased was completely royalty-free and, if they purchase the correct license here, they have the secure guarantee that they will never have to pay anything again having paid for a license to use the music on AudioJungle. Some royalty-free libraries do this, some do not. We chose to.

With more and more AudioJungle music appearing on TV, radio and film however we do appreciate that we could improve our licensing to better accommodate these type of uses. This is something we have been discussing behind the scenes for quite a while but with most licensing issues on the marketplaces, changes occur slowly because they have to be managed extremely carefully and scrutinized very carefully by our legal team. So although I cannot guarantee if or when our licenses will be improved, I do personally hope that this is an area of licensing that AudioJungle will improve upon in the future for the benefit of both customers and authors.
Old 6th May 2016
  #155
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
If you follow the industry closely... it is pretty clear. Disney personnel have publicly stated that all their properties (Disney, Lucas, ABC, ESPN, etc) are not allowed to license from RF non-exclusive catalogs.
This is not 100% true. From personal experience.
Old 6th May 2016
  #156
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Actually ALL of AJ is performance-free.
Performance Rights Organizations | AudioJungle Community Forums

Maybe things have changed since the above thread... and since I last really looked into this... but you'll see the Evanto Team personal's response...
The way I read it either the guy doesn't understand the question or the issues at hand or both. Either way, AJ sounds like a ******* ****.
Old 6th May 2016
  #157
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
This is not 100% true. From personal experience.
I think we'll all take your word on it.... just stating what I've heard from panels.
Old 7th May 2016
  #158
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

So wait - networks that use music from AJ don't have to pay performance royalties? How does that work?
Old 7th May 2016
  #159
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
I think we'll all take your word on it.... just stating what I've heard from panels.

I think you are right in the general sense. They don't want to do that. But there ARE exceptions. I'll leave it at that. The mouse has big ears.....
Old 7th May 2016
  #160
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Sam Watson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
So wait - networks that use music from AJ don't have to pay performance royalties? How does that work?
AJ doesn't allow you to upload tracks which are registered with a PRO. Thus, no cues sheets required for end users. Thus no performance royalties. Only the split of the sync fee.

-Sam
Old 8th May 2016
  #161
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Actually ALL of AJ is performance-free.
Performance Rights Organizations | AudioJungle Community Forums

Maybe things have changed since the above thread... and since I last really looked into this... but you'll see the Evanto Team personal's response...
No, you are right. I was wrong. I stand corrected. I just poked around on their site again... and found this...

License FAQ | AudioJungle

Quote:
AudioJungle has a requirement that its authors cannot register their AudioJungle music tracks with a performing rights organization (PRO). This requirement is so that buyers should not have to pay any further fees to a collecting society/PRO. You will need to check this in your country, as different PROs have different approaches to collecting fees on public performance of music.
Which is stupid... since the person licensing the music never pays the PROs, it's the network that is broadcasting it that has to pay... and they pay in one lump sum every year, so by doing this composers are just walking away from money on the table that is rightfully theirs.
Old 8th May 2016
  #162
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Watson View Post
AJ doesn't allow you to upload tracks which are registered with a PRO. Thus, no cues sheets required for end users. Thus no performance royalties. Only the split of the sync fee.

-Sam
Oh - so there are sync fees? As in AJ gets paid when one of my tracks gets chosen? Was not aware of that...
Old 8th May 2016
  #163
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Sam Watson's Avatar
Jeff - Yeah, the sync fee is the very small amount charged per track when downloaded. They added several tiers of license in the past year or so. A basic license (based on track length) is like $19 for internet / corporate use. You can get worldwide broadcast & film use for $304. (Top level.) If the track is exclusive to them you get 70% of the take. A few years back I threw a handful of leftover tracks up with them as an experiment. A couple bucks float in a month - enough to pay my internet and no more. I haven't placed any more tracks with them. (Although maybe if I had thousands of tracks like drBill...) I agree that cutting off access to PRO royalties (which cost the end user NOTHING) is bizarre and unnecessary. I was curious if the raw throughput might make up for it. Not for me. So I stick with writing custom stuff for big corporations with livable budgets.

Best,
Sam
Old 8th May 2016
  #164
Here for the gear
 

Just to add, from a few months ago tracks sold to buyers in the US had another 30% taken off it, unless your country has a tax agreement with the US. A lot of the guys in some eastern European countries got hit with this. I had one track which had this extra taken off before I submitted my tax number and it worked out at about $6 for a $19 track.
Old 18th October 2016
  #165
Gear Maniac
 

Interested in poking at this a bit, as I had only recently come to learn about AJ, and am thankful for this thread. I can see both sides of the coin, and am especially empathetic to what a service like this does to the bigger industry (and more specifically; the little guy trying to make a life in music).

With that in mind, can anyone recommend a service "like" AJ that maintain mechanical royalties for the writer? I'm sure they exist, even if they're not completely open to any schmuck with a DAW.
Old 18th October 2016
  #166
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Watson View Post
.....So I stick with writing custom stuff for big corporations with livable budgets.

Best,
Sam
Do you really make a living with only custom scoring?

I'm in the bizz nearly for 3 years now and earn my money (full time) with library music only. (NEVER did a single custom gig)

Seems to really be a numbers game and how long you stick to it.

Btw, does anyone of you know Score-A-Score? I get custom scoring emails from them daily, but the deadlines are insanely tight, so I never did anything for them yet. (royalties are varying EXTREMELY there too.....)
Old 18th October 2016
  #167
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by freshdax View Post
I'm in the bizz nearly for 3 years now and earn my money (full time) with library music only. (NEVER did a single custom gig)
Are you posting on multiple libraries? Which service(s)?
Old 18th October 2016
  #168
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Sam Watson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshdax View Post
Do you really make a living with only custom scoring?
I'm in the bizz nearly for 3 years now and earn my money (full time) with library music only. (NEVER did a single custom gig)
I got my start doing on-set audio engineering. That got my foot in the door with tons of directors and agencies back home in the southern U.S. They came to know that I was actually a composer who had become skilled at engineering merely out of self-interest to better record my music. At the mid-point in my career it was half & half. Now it is nothing in the field. Music and a smidge of sound design & audio post. I probably get less than $100 / month from library stuff. (Although I'm considering making a heavy push into it.) Yes, my living comes from custom scoring.

I do tons of regional commercials, some small nationals (cable), LOTS of business media (think of cell company website videos where they want to incorporate their musical branding theme into the score), educational material, docs, and the occasional indie feature or TV theme music (some on Outdoor channel). It is almost all upfront fees and no back end. 19 years in the biz. 17 years freelance.

Again: I am considering making a push for library music. Why? Because it is the slow burn but it is revenue with legs. The music continues to earn you money year after year. The problem with upfront fee is that you must constantly work or suffer. We recently moved north and it can be difficult to maintain relationships at a distance. When they stop seeing you regularly, they can develop amnesia regarding your skillset. Particularly as the faces at the agency change and the creatives get younger while my contacts move into admin & client relations.

Cheers,
Sam
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