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Old 17th March 2014
  #61
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Amber's Avatar
 

The trick is to either not bother or just upload music that you think wouldn't get an exclusive deal. I've seen people up on Audiosparx who are also on Megatrax for instance.
Old 17th March 2014
  #62
Gear Nut
 

i got the bad vibe too. previously they had 5 yrs contract,
which is still a turnoff, let alone the perpetuity now...
Old 17th March 2014
  #63
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jazz4's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by janpauck View Post
I just recently started uploading my music to online libraries like tunesociety, productiontrax and pond5, and when I got to Audiosparx the contract 'in perpetuity' really throws me off... on the other sites I can delete my stuff in seconds. I intend to keep contacting as many libraries as possible with my music, what happens if I someone offers me an exclusive deal and I can't delete from AS? I don't have much experience with this, would love some feedback.

Cheers
Well that's part of the deal you have to be willing to make when signing with audiosparx. This stipulation apparently arose after a major client found a piece of music they loved on audiosparx and in the time they screened it and got the go ahead from their higher-ups, the composer deleted the track and lost the deal for himself and the library. I think they run into this a lot - composers establish themselves, get great licenses and then just leave and take their music. I get A LOT of clients come back and license my stuff and sometimes land some big placements from surprisingly huge clients, so I'm willing to give them that and maintain the reputation I've established with the library. If it's not for you and think there's a strong possibility you'll go exclusive with the same material down the road some time, I wouldn't recommend signing the deal. Best of luck.
Old 1st June 2014
  #64
Gear Head
 

Hello everyone!
Great discussion going on here so I thought I'd contribute a little.
Not allowing takedowns is a serious issue for us composers. Just got accepted. So I thought I'd try to convince them by giving more VALUE to the site through some custom agreements. But they replied back saying that have ZERO flexibility with takedowns.

In case someone is interested. this was my proposed agreement. It didn't work. So I am really double minded right now.
I am sure we can find a middle-way around this. Allow me to explain:
- We can set a notice period before track takedown (eg 1 week notice before takedown)
- We can come up with an agreement: For example, for each takedown, upload a new track in the same genre in replacement of the old one.
- Max takedowns limit per semester in percentage (eg 20% of the amount of total tracks uploaded) so for 100 tracks uploaded 20 can be takendown in the period of four months.

The BENEFITS: There are a lot of benefits of doing this. First of all, as a composer, I will upload everything I have without caring about the exclusive deals. Which means that I will upload my best quality track. It will definitely increase the quality of your catalog. Secondly, I will upload everything I have. So the quantity will also be increase. I really fail to understand how such an agreement can be harmful for AudioSparx.


One more thing. I have a somewhat popular Artist name all over youtube. I sell exclusives and non-exclusives on my website for artists mainly. Now audiosparx is not allowing me to use that Artist name and are making me use my real name. BUMMER.
However there is a positive side of this. Incase, I get accepted in other libraries, it will be hard to search me.
Old 2nd June 2014
  #65
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jazz4's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaak View Post
Hello everyone!
Great discussion going on here so I thought I'd contribute a little.
Not allowing takedowns is a serious issue for us composers. Just got accepted. So I thought I'd try to convince them by giving more VALUE to the site through some custom agreements. But they replied back saying that have ZERO flexibility with takedowns.

In case someone is interested. this was my proposed agreement. It didn't work. So I am really double minded right now.
I am sure we can find a middle-way around this. Allow me to explain:
- We can set a notice period before track takedown (eg 1 week notice before takedown)
- We can come up with an agreement: For example, for each takedown, upload a new track in the same genre in replacement of the old one.
- Max takedowns limit per semester in percentage (eg 20% of the amount of total tracks uploaded) so for 100 tracks uploaded 20 can be takendown in the period of four months.

The BENEFITS: There are a lot of benefits of doing this. First of all, as a composer, I will upload everything I have without caring about the exclusive deals. Which means that I will upload my best quality track. It will definitely increase the quality of your catalog. Secondly, I will upload everything I have. So the quantity will also be increase. I really fail to understand how such an agreement can be harmful for AudioSparx.


One more thing. I have a somewhat popular Artist name all over youtube. I sell exclusives and non-exclusives on my website for artists mainly. Now audiosparx is not allowing me to use that Artist name and are making me use my real name. BUMMER.
However there is a positive side of this. Incase, I get accepted in other libraries, it will be hard to search me.
Interesting. I agree with you on this, too. I think if they had some or all of those proposed stipulations, I'd be happier about being with them. I imagine composers taking down music can be annoying, but I'm surprised it happens THAT much or that it is as devastating to the library as they make out.

They aren't going to change their agreement on an individual basis, but you have an interesting idea. I just don't think they want the extra aggravation though. Once you upload, that's it. swapping tracks, giving composers a set amount of take downs, and going through notices of who wants to take down what might be energy they'd prefer to direct elsewhere.

As far as I'm aware, you are allowed to swap tracks already. It might have to go through them individually now, though.
Old 2nd June 2014
  #66
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Amber's Avatar
 

I imagine Audiosparx don't want to deal with take downs because they don't have the staff.

Their model seems very much like a start the engine and leave it one. You have to meta tag everything yourself, invoices are automated, buying a license is straightforward.

The only time a human is involved is when you initially get accepted/screened.

I've been dealing with another library recently (and speaking to someone at another) and it almost feels like you have an A&R getting the best out of you and it really helped me up my game.
Old 2nd June 2014
  #67
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaak View Post
Not allowing takedowns is a serious issue for us composers.
About as serious as you can get IMO. If a particular library is doing good for their composers, very few composers would ever WANT to take their music down. If a particular library is not, well......that's when you run into this game of cat and mouse. When I put my music into a library I vet them first and make SURE I know as much as possible about them. I'm auditioning them as much as they are auditioning me.
Old 4th June 2014
  #68
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robmix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
About as serious as you can get IMO. If a particular library is doing good for their composers, very few composers would ever WANT to take their music down. If a particular library is not, well......that's when you run into this game of cat and mouse. When I put my music into a library I vet them first and make SURE I know as much as possible about them. I'm auditioning them as much as they are auditioning me.

Absolutely.... This is always a huge consideration when signing publishing deals as well - when do I get my music back if the deal goes bad, and I want to sign with another publisher. I've seen a few deals that are forever, but most try for 5-7 years, I've seen a couple at 10 years. This can be a problem for the new publisher if your back catalog is tied up with the other guy. Essentially you'd have the same problem with Audiosparx - by not allowing you to take down music they have ownership of your master in perpetuity. This is ridiculous considering they did not offer an advance, or commission the work. You've given away your music for the hope of a license in which they will take the majority of fees. Terrible, really terrible. I would never use Audiosparx....
Old 4th June 2014
  #69
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mistergreen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
I imagine Audiosparx don't want to deal with take downs because they don't have the staff.

Their model seems very much like a start the engine and leave it one. You have to meta tag everything yourself, invoices are automated, buying a license is straightforward.

The only time a human is involved is when you initially get accepted/screened.

I've been dealing with another library recently (and speaking to someone at another) and it almost feels like you have an A&R getting the best out of you and it really helped me up my game.
What are the other libraries, Amber?
Old 4th June 2014
  #70
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Amber's Avatar
 

No need for me to single these out, but most of the exclusive libraries will want the best out of you and it's in their own interest to do this. There is no risk at all for libraries like Audiosparx apart from hosting and their website/system.
Old 4th June 2014
  #71
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mistergreen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
No need for me to single these out, but most of the exclusive libraries will want the best out of you and it's in their own interest to do this. There is no risk at all for libraries like Audiosparx apart from hosting and their website/system.
I ask because I'm doing my homework before uploading material to the wrong site. What you're saying about them sounds very appealing. Would they be any of the sites on Audiosparx's 'prohibited' list?

Basically, what I'm hearing about Audiosparx makes me nervous about joining but I don't know what other companies are out there.
Old 4th June 2014
  #72
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The best, Extreme, Megatrax, Killer, Universal, Warner Chappell etc. You can tell just by the quality of the music on there. Follow one on Twitter and you'll get others suggested for you.

I don't think Audiosparx are in a position to have a prohibited list.

I tend to put all my quick commission jobs on there that frankly aren't good enough for a decent library. I've already been paid to write/produce these tracks already and I tend to relicense them here and there myself as well.

If you keep getting knocked back by libraries like those listed above, maybe try them with Audiosparx and get back to work.
Old 4th June 2014
  #73
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mistergreen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
The best, Extreme, Megatrax, Killer, Universal, Warner Chappell etc. You can tell just by the quality of the music on there. Follow one on Twitter and you'll get others suggested for you.

I don't think Audiosparx are in a position to have a prohibited list.

I tend to put all my quick commission jobs on there that frankly aren't good enough for a decent library. I've already been paid to write/produce these tracks already and I tend to relicense them here and there myself as well.

If you keep getting knocked back by libraries like those listed above, maybe try them with Audiosparx and get back to work.
Great advice. Thanks.
Old 9th June 2014
  #74
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This thread has been really informative -- thanks to everyone who has offered advice on this topic. I've actually been a lurker for a long time, and this thread convinced me to finally register and ask a related question. :-)

I checked out the websites of the "top" libraries such as Extreme Music and Megatrax, and it seems like none of them accept unsolicited music submissions. With that being the case, can anyone offer advice on how to "break in" to the top music libraries as a new composer? Do they more or less have to come to you?

Thanks...
Old 9th June 2014
  #75
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drBill's Avatar
You have to work your way up the ladder. You don't just "start" at the top as a "new composer". These things take years. Often decades. There is no substitute for hard work, experience and making contacts over the years. Good luck. (BTW on a side note, making a living working for libraries is a very long term goal. Think decade or maybe more.....)
Old 9th June 2014
  #76
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You have to work your way up the ladder. You don't just "start" at the top as a "new composer". These things take years. Often decades. There is no substitute for hard work, experience and making contacts over the years. Good luck. (BTW on a side note, making a living working for libraries is a very long term goal. Think decade or maybe more.....)
So wait - if I get one of these:



I can quickly become a top "new composer"?
Old 9th June 2014
  #77
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
So wait - if I get one of these:



I can quickly become a top "new composer"?

Man.....I want a pair of those so bad Jeff.... LOL I guess I'll just have to wait until I become a top composer. Funny thing is, the higher up the ladder I get, the more steps I see......
Old 9th June 2014
  #78
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You have to work your way up the ladder. You don't just "start" at the top as a "new composer". These things take years. Often decades. There is no substitute for hard work, experience and making contacts over the years. Good luck. (BTW on a side note, making a living working for libraries is a very long term goal. Think decade or maybe more.....)
Thanks for the advice. When it comes to working our way up the ladder, does that mean that we first have to establish a name for ourselves, generate our own list of individual clients, and then wait for the library companies to get in touch with us (I.e., get "discovered" via word-of-mouth)? Generally/hypothetically speaking, is there any way for a new composer to grab the attention of the top composers purely on the merit of the quality of their music alone?
Old 9th June 2014
  #79
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog25 View Post
Thanks for the advice. When it comes to working our way up the ladder, does that mean that we first have to establish a name for ourselves, generate our own list of individual clients, and then wait for the library companies to get in touch with us (I.e., get "discovered" via word-of-mouth)? Generally/hypothetically speaking, is there any way for a new composer to grab the attention of the top composers purely on the merit of the quality of their music alone?
The best opportunities come when you don't need them. Does that make sense?
Old 9th June 2014
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
The best opportunities come when you don't need them. Does that make sense?

Absolutely! But in the meantime, would you actually recommend that a less-experienced, unheard-of composer get their "foot in the door" with Audiosparx? It seems like a better-than-nothing way to get started, but if someone composes and uploads a song to Audiosparx that (in terms of both of the writing & production quality of the piece) is actually good enough to have been submitted to (and accepted by) one of the premier libraries, would you consider that to be a waste of time/talent?

In other words, if a composer is left with no choice but to start with Audiosparx, would you advise them to not submit what they feel is their "top shelf" work, especially when considering Audiosparx' policy of never allowing users to de-list songs?
Old 9th June 2014
  #81
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
The best opportunities come when you don't need them. Does that make sense?
Right on. Kinda like women - you look, and you can't hook up. You stop looking, and all of a sudden, you have three dates in a week.
Old 9th June 2014
  #82
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Sam Watson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
So wait - if I get one of these...
Hahahaha.... Nicely played, Jeff Hayat!
Old 9th June 2014
  #83
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog25 View Post
if a composer is left with no choice but to start with Audiosparx, would you advise them to not submit what they feel is their "top shelf" work, especially when considering Audiosparx' policy of never allowing users to de-list songs?
There are many, many, MANY low to mid-line libraries out there like audiosparx. I don't know what their policy of taking down songs is, but I'm sure many of them will allow you to do that. As for "top shelf" libraries, they are not going to want to take on songs that have been distributed non-exlusively anyway, so the point is moot really...

I never think of ANY piece of music as "that valuable" that it should be witheld for that "special moment" when you're "discovered". If Audiosparx is your only choice, then you should be pursuing it with all you've got. Don't hold back. If you're a composer, write more. You should be getting BETTER not worse than your esteemed piece(s).

As for how to write and the "value" of what you've written, I suggest you only strive to write top shelf, even if it's a drone. Sometimes I get there, sometimes I don't, but I never say "good enough".
Old 9th June 2014
  #84
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Amber's Avatar
 

If you're only planing on writing a few pieces of music, then wait all you want. But be realistic with yourself. Are the the tracks really that good that you should wait?

I've got some stuff on Audiosparx and whilst there's no back end on these placements, the up front fee was pretty decent for what the tracks were. They've paid for a copy of Logic 9 ten times over probably and took me a day or two each to write. I know these tracks couldn't get into Megatrax, Extreme etc. But I also have some stuff I wouldn't let Audiosparx have. All the quick, cheap, fast (also not top shelf) stuff I do for people on a non exclusive basis will also go up on Audiosparx.
Old 9th June 2014
  #85
Here for the gear
 

I appreciate your insight. I think that what makes my concerns seem so weird and "non-issue" to most of the folks here is the fact that I had a different introduction to music in the first place. It sounds like many people who decide to start composing don't have much of a theory or traditional background as a music student, but they do have extensive technical backgrounds that provide them with a strong foundation for learning how to utilize VSTs and the other programs. On the other hand, I started as a lessons-once-a-week piano student, which naturally gave me a healthy introduction to theory, and which then led to me going out on my own, so to speak, to learn more theory and composition techniques. I've always been really impressed with and fascinated by the "golden era" film composers, and I often find myself listening to their scores and asking, "What chord/progression/modal technique did he just use to create that sound?" whenever I hear something especially ear-catching. With that being said, I have always wanted to be able to create music that is similarly well-written and has the same degree of standout quality, and that's why I try to spend so much time learning compositional theory. I really want to know why the music I like sounds so great, and I want to supply my arsenal with the same level of weaponry, so to speak.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that when it comes to composing music, I want everything I make to sound top-shelf and impressive in terms of the quality of the actual composition itself, and so in that sense, it really never occurred to me to start out by making "low-end" music, although I understand what people mean when they recommend submitting simpler loops, drones, etc. to libraries such as Audiosparx. I just don't think I'll be submitting, for example, a lush, epic orchestral piece that I first spent hours/days composing at the piano, and then more hours/days composing with VSTs.
Old 9th June 2014
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog25 View Post

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that when it comes to composing music, I want everything I make to sound top-shelf and impressive in terms of the quality of the actual composition itself, and so in that sense, it really never occurred to me to start out by making "low-end" music, although I understand what people mean when they recommend submitting simpler loops, drones, etc. to libraries such as Audiosparx. I just don't think I'll be submitting, for example, a lush, epic orchestral piece that I first spent hours/days composing at the piano, and then more hours/days composing with VSTs.
If you aren't a novice, I wouldn't advise you to write specifically for libraries like Audiosparx and you should never think about writing low end music. In fact, I wouldn't even know how someone would go about doing that.

It sounds like your desire is to get a portfolio together and approach exclusive libraries. When you start writing specific material for exclusive libraries you can do your best stuff. It's a lot more fun, too!

Amber has the right idea. Anything you do for somebody else that doesn't quite cut it, or tracks that are just sitting around not being utilized are definitely worth putting up there. Just as long as you think they have a shot. Some music on audiosparx does sound like it's been dumped in the hopes of a few bucks.

Ideally, you should never stray away from your desire to write top shelf material, no matter who it's for. If you want to start somewhere, sieze every oppurtunity and work hard. Good luck.
Old 13th June 2014
  #87
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Guys, we tried to respond several times with no luck and think we inadvertently put up links, which we have now removed. We developed our “no takedown” policy at AudioSparx because takedowns are extremely disruptive, especially for our larger ad agency clients who must get client approvals for tracks only to return to license them and discover that they’ve disappeared.

There is a lot of competition at AudioSparx, and our top-sellers upload ONLY their very best tracks. Uploading less than stellar music here is a waste of your time since we deprioritize weak tracks, which may result in zero sales for you. Most of our top-selling artists have re-upped to our new “perpetual” length contract terms, and they probably wouldn’t be doing this if they weren’t selling well here.

We’re very active on Facebook and Twitter, and now feature on our home page client video games, movie trailers, fashion photo shoots, travel promos, etc. – so you might check it out to see what will successfully sell at our sites. …
Old 13th June 2014
  #88
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robmix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbie View Post
Guys, we tried to respond several times with no luck and think we inadvertently put up links, which we have now removed. We developed our “no takedown” policy at AudioSparx because takedowns are extremely disruptive, especially for our larger ad agency clients who must get client approvals for tracks only to return to license them and discover that they’ve disappeared.

There is a lot of competition at AudioSparx, and our top-sellers upload ONLY their very best tracks. Uploading less than stellar music here is a waste of your time since we deprioritize weak tracks, which may result in zero sales for you. Most of our top-selling artists have re-upped to our new “perpetual” length contract terms, and they probably wouldn’t be doing this if they weren’t selling well here.

We’re very active on Facebook and Twitter, and now feature on our home page client video games, movie trailers, fashion photo shoots, travel promos, etc. – so you might check it out to see what will successfully sell at our sites. …
I don't think anyone here doubts that your composers aren't making money, and that you get a lot of placements. But from a publishing and master recording standpoint you've essentially created a situation whereby you own the masters without ever having paid an advance. I think any legitimate music publisher or record label would frown upon this. There should be some process to remove your masters....
Old 13th June 2014
  #89
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jazz4's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbie View Post
There is a lot of competition at AudioSparx, and our top-sellers upload ONLY their very best tracks. Uploading less than stellar music here is a waste of your time since we deprioritize weak tracks, which may result in zero sales for you. Most of our top-selling artists have re-upped to our new “perpetual” length contract terms, and they probably wouldn’t be doing this if they weren’t selling well here. …
People will always sign these deals. It doesn't particularly mean they are good for the composers in the long run. You make a lot of licenses and I don't think anything said here needs to be defended. The sentiment is really the desire for a more flexible contract. Composers would like to utilize their own property whichever way they wish. Not too sure about your new Viacom deal either. It's easy for newer composers to get roped into the big sounding client names, only to realise later that their music is being utilized via gratis licenses. By then they can't take their music back because of your take down clauses.

Instead of trying to reel in more composers via social media exposure, maybe think about the environment you're building for them. Plenty of composers on this very forum have shared their thoughts, but the people who work for these libraries only ever join in to maintain PR. Seldom do they see it as advice which could benefit everyone.
Old 13th June 2014
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4 View Post
If you aren't a novice, I wouldn't advise you to write specifically for libraries like Audiosparx and you should never think about writing low end music. In fact, I wouldn't even know how someone would go about doing that.

It sounds like your desire is to get a portfolio together and approach exclusive libraries. When you start writing specific material for exclusive libraries you can do your best stuff. It's a lot more fun, too!

Amber has the right idea. Anything you do for somebody else that doesn't quite cut it, or tracks that are just sitting around not being utilized are definitely worth putting up there. Just as long as you think they have a shot. Some music on audiosparx does sound like it's been dumped in the hopes of a few bucks.

Ideally, you should never stray away from your desire to write top shelf material, no matter who it's for. If you want to start somewhere, sieze ever oppurtunity and work hard. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice (and sorry for the delayed response). Just out of curiosity and based on your username, do you have a background in jazz theory/composing? If so, do you find that this knowledge has helped you to compose more creative-sounding music? I have been trying to learn jazz theory myself, as I'm aware that many of my favorite Hollywood composers (especially John Williams and the "golden era" composers) have backgrounds as having been jazz musicians before they became composers.
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