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Orchestral reverb
Old 21st July 2020
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Orchestral reverb

Hi everyone!
I’m after a new specialized reverb plugin for orchestral score.
I’m happy with what I have but I’m convinced there is an extra notch I can get to.
For now stereo is fine, will look in the future to a possible surround update or different product.

I already have:
TC VSS3 (my main workhorse for the task)
Seventh Heaven Pro
PSP 2445
Waves IR
Valhalla room and vintage
Waves Abbey Road plate and chambers
Waves H reverb

Looking at:
R2
Nimbus
Relab Vs24 (might be too similar to vss3?)
Relab LX480 hall

I really like, but I’m excluding for now (as too pricey at the moment):
Lexicon reverbs
Altiverb
R4

Also any tips for preferred presets etc would be amazing

Many thanks!
Any suggestion would be great!

Best regards and stay safe everyone!
Old 21st July 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

First Q I have is why do you need another reverb if you have what you have already? What is it you feel you are missing?

I am no Reverb whor e, but I would go with the Relab LX480, which I have and works great.

If you want an extra notch, you should look into a Bricasti.

Also bear in mind, that the way a reverb responds and sounds is largely dependent on what is feeding it.

Cheers.
Old 21st July 2020
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Lexicon Native reverb plugin. Random Hall. Don't use anything else.

The Universal Lexicon plug uses up too much processing power. Tried it.
Old 22nd July 2020
  #4
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Relab LX480!!

I have the Lexicon Native bundle too. I like the Relab 480 better for the big Random Hall which is the Hollywood defacto standard for orchestras.

Bricasti is AWESOME as well, but here it doesn't get as much use on orchestras as the Relab does.
Old 22nd July 2020
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Relab LX480!!

I have the Lexicon Native bundle too. I like the Relab 480 better for the big Random Hall which is the Hollywood defacto standard for orchestras.

Bricasti is AWESOME as well, but here it doesn't get as much use on orchestras as the Relab does.
Thank you Mr. Dr.!
"Defacto standard" is the term I was hoping to read!
It is on sale too ...
Old 22nd July 2020
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
First Q I have is why do you need another reverb if you have what you have already? What is it you feel you are missing?

I am no Reverb whor e, but I would go with the Relab LX480, which I have and works great.

If you want an extra notch, you should look into a Bricasti.

Also bear in mind, that the way a reverb responds and sounds is largely dependent on what is feeding it.

Cheers.
Thanks,
I am always looking for new horizons and possible improvements...
The Bricasti is out of the question because of its price and because it is not a plugin.
Old 22nd July 2020
  #7
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
Thank you Mr. Dr.!
"Defacto standard" is the term I was hoping to read!
It is on sale too ...
Just to clarify - a REAL Lexicon 480L is pretty much a defacto standard. The Relab is very good though. It had been several years after selling my Lex480L to when I had the Relab, but it seemed pretty good to me.
Old 26th July 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 
syntheticrhyme's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
Hi everyone!
I’m after a new specialized reverb plugin for orchestral score.
I’m happy with what I have but I’m convinced there is an extra notch I can get to.
For now stereo is fine, will look in the future to a possible surround update or different product.

I already have:
TC VSS3 (my main workhorse for the task)
Seventh Heaven Pro
PSP 2445
Waves IR
Valhalla room and vintage
Waves Abbey Road plate and chambers
Waves H reverb

Looking at:
R2
Nimbus
Relab Vs24 (might be too similar to vss3?)
Relab LX480 hall

I really like, but I’m excluding for now (as too pricey at the moment):
Lexicon reverbs
Altiverb
R4

Also any tips for preferred presets etc would be amazing

Many thanks!
Any suggestion would be great!

Best regards and stay safe everyone!
You have enough reverb plugins, lol. I don't think you need more. If you go hardware, that is a different storey. I have a Roland R880 that I can't live without.
Old 26th July 2020
  #9
Lives for gear
 

I'm not interested in hardware, thanks!

I think I should rephrase the question, it is not a random request for a generic reverb suggestion.

Is there, and which is a reverb plugin used as standard when mixing orchestral music in cinema/TV production?

Re-recording mixers and video related mixing have gone mostly all digital for sure (???!), there must be a standard...
I got good interesting and pertinent suggestions about the Relab480 and I'm interested...

I am guessing Altiverb is being used much but I don't want to spend that amount now.
At the moment the ones that I have, that sound the most appropriate to my ears are the VSS3, Seventh heaven and less so, the Waves IR - I wouldn't use the rest for this specific application...

Anyhow at this moment I'm torn between Relab480 Hall ($99 on sale) and R2 ($200)...
I've got a few tracks to mix in a few days and I enjoy trying new things.

Thanks again
Old 26th July 2020
  #10
Gear Guru
 

If I were you - and given your question and thoughts - I would ask in the post-production section to see what mixers use there and I would also not only consider R2 but the other reverbs by the same programmer. Michael Carnes who wrote R2 also wrote Lexicon reverbs and his newer reverbs for iZotope are great. I believe that the relationships are:

Phoenixverb -> Stratus, and
R2 -> Symphony

Not sure to what degree people spread out reverb in actual orchestral scores for surround in film and TV, but from what I've read both Stratus and Symphony should be able to maintain a lot of the sound and panning as you move from a lower channel count to a higher one. So I'd consider that a big bonus in terms of predictability and compatibility. In other words I think that if you get R2 it's probably not unusual for the re-recording engineer to have access to that plugin in stereo or surround, but I'm betting that in a lot of places they have moved on to the other reverbs mentioned above and so you would possibly benefit more from using those instead.

And also - as far as I recall - the actual algorithms or the underlying "engine" in the newer reverbs are based on the old ones and the only difference in terms of the 'core' of it all is that it's 'better', to the extent there's a difference in the 'quality' of the sound. Both Stratus and Symphony offer some interesting features that the older versions don't though in addition to channel counts all the way up to 3D.

Just some thoughts...
Old 26th July 2020
  #11
Gear Guru
 

dbl post
Old 26th July 2020
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
If I were you - and given your question and thoughts - I would ask in the post-production section to see what mixers use there and I would also not only consider R2 but the other reverbs by the same programmer. Michael Carnes who wrote R2 also wrote Lexicon reverbs and his newer reverbs for iZotope are great. I believe that the relationships are:

Phoenixverb -> Stratus, and
R2 -> Symphony

Not sure to what degree people spread out reverb in actual orchestral scores for surround in film and TV, but from what I've read both Stratus and Symphony should be able to maintain a lot of the sound and panning as you move from a lower channel count to a higher one. So I'd consider that a big bonus in terms of predictability and compatibility. In other words I think that if you get R2 it's probably not unusual for the re-recording engineer to have access to that plugin in stereo or surround, but I'm betting that in a lot of places they have moved on to the other reverbs mentioned above and so you would possibly benefit more from using those instead.

And also - as far as I recall - the actual algorithms or the underlying "engine" in the newer reverbs are based on the old ones and the only difference in terms of the 'core' of it all is that it's 'better', to the extent there's a difference in the 'quality' of the sound. Both Stratus and Symphony offer some interesting features that the older versions don't though in addition to channel counts all the way up to 3D.

Just some thoughts...
Thanks!
Old 27th July 2020
  #13
I love Softube Tsar.
Old 27th July 2020
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Oh no, I just remembered they released "Cinematic Rooms" from Liquidsonics.... Gotta check it out, any users here?
Old 28th July 2020
  #15
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
Hi everyone!
I’m after a new specialized reverb plugin for orchestral score.
I’m happy with what I have but I’m convinced there is an extra notch I can get to.
For now stereo is fine, will look in the future to a possible surround update or different product.

I already have:
TC VSS3 (my main workhorse for the task)
Seventh Heaven Pro
PSP 2445
Waves IR
Valhalla room and vintage
Waves Abbey Road plate and chambers
Waves H reverb

Looking at:
R2
Nimbus
Relab Vs24 (might be too similar to vss3?)
Relab LX480 hall

I really like, but I’m excluding for now (as too pricey at the moment):
Lexicon reverbs
Altiverb
R4

Also any tips for preferred presets etc would be amazing

Many thanks!
Any suggestion would be great!

Best regards and stay safe everyone!

Maybe this link will help (shoot out between real bricasti and a few that you mentioned
https://vi-control.net/community/thr...-debate.88901/
Old 3rd August 2020
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Just a quick update for anyone who might be interested...

I have tested Relab LX480 on orchestral tracks I was working on...

Unfortunately, to my ears, it lost every single A/B with VSS3 on this program material. I really tried to love it.
I felt more depth and realism and "something X" with the TC electronics VSS3 AND Seventh Heaven Professional.

I did enjoy the Relab on vocals though.

The search goes on...

That's my opinion and some might love it for this application obvs...
Thanks all for your contribution :-)
Old 3rd August 2020
  #17
Gear Guru
 

I still think you should download and demo Stratus and Symphony. I mean, they're made by the guy who made Lexicon reverbs and they're "modernized" so... if you haven't then I certainly don't think it'll be a waste of time.
Old 3rd August 2020
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I still think you should download and demo Stratus and Symphony. I mean, they're made by the guy who made Lexicon reverbs and they're "modernized" so... if you haven't then I certainly don't think it'll be a waste of time.
I shall, thanks!
Old 4th August 2020
  #19
Lives for gear
If you are striving for realism, convolution reverbs are hard to beat. Maybe you should just try to find some IRs that would suit you.
Old 4th August 2020
  #20
Gear Guru
 

Last time I a/b'd convolution reverb versus algorithmic in surround the latter won by a mile. Perhaps I just didn't get good impulses or a good convolution reverb plugin...
Old 4th August 2020
  #21
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Last time I a/b'd convolution reverb versus algorithmic in surround the latter won by a mile. Perhaps I just didn't get good impulses or a good convolution reverb plugin...
Possibly. More likely it's just a personal preference and how it fits a certain aesthetic.
I've achieved some pretty good results by using convolution reverbs, even the impulses that come with Nuendo.
OTOH if you want what Lexicon Random Hall does, convolution won't come close.

The OP mentioned lack of realism with the LX480. That's why I suggested convolution.

Decca tree (let alone close miking) is also less realistic sounding than many common stereo techniques. Some hate it, some love it. Analogue vs. digital - same thing.
Old 4th August 2020
  #22
Gear Guru
 

To me Stratus has been the by far most realistic sound reverb, at least in surround. Of course I haven't tried them all (though certainly Nuendo's).
Old 5th August 2020
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Hey ! Any opinions on the R4 for this application? It is on sale now... Is it from the same Stratus "family"?
Thanks in advance
Old 5th August 2020
  #24
Gear Guru
 

No opinion on the "R4". I think it's "R2"->"R4"->"Symphony", basically.

And my hunch is that the "R"/Symphony reverbs are closer to the more "musical" Lexicon style reverbs whereas the Stratus and Phoenixverb reverbs are more neutral and "clean". If that makes sense.

I think you can download and demo them, right?
Old 7th August 2020
  #25
Lives for gear
 

I had just very little time with it for now... but...

R4

R4!

My usually undroppable jaw did drop listening to these ultra wide and "alive" tails..
Will use it more and AB it with others etc, but for now I'm well impressed...
Old 8th August 2020
  #26
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

DRY SAMPLE


Real bricasti


RELAB 480


seventh heaven


valhalla


lexicon PCM
Old 17th August 2020
  #27
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Im still using Altiverbs , Valhalla and my Bricasti h/w - augmented by some Liquid Sonics. Stopped using Lexicon stuff a while ago. No reason.
Old 17th August 2020
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Im still using Altiverbs , Valhalla and my Bricasti h/w - augmented by some Liquid Sonics. Stopped using Lexicon stuff a while ago. No reason.
At one point I had a thing for the Valhallas, lately less and less (sometimes Shimmer for exaggerated stuff). Still great verbs...

How do you rate the Liquid Sonics Seventh Heaven Pro next the actual Bricasti HW, considering you can compare them side by side?

I have never used the HW but love Seventh Heaven and sometimes enjoy using Bricasti impulses.

I have no plans of purchasing the HW and I don't NEED my emus to be 1:1, just a curiosity...

Thanks!
Old 21st August 2020
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
At one point I had a thing for the Valhallas, lately less and less (sometimes Shimmer for exaggerated stuff). Still great verbs...

How do you rate the Liquid Sonics Seventh Heaven Pro next the actual Bricasti HW, considering you can compare them side by side?

I have never used the HW but love Seventh Heaven and sometimes enjoy using Bricasti impulses.

I have no plans of purchasing the HW and I don't NEED my emus to be 1:1, just a curiosity...

Thanks!
The example above demonstrates well. The Bricasti has more "air" but the Seventh Heaven is a great ITB verb. I have both.
Old 21st August 2020
  #30
Gear Addict
 

If you want a VST plugin rather than outboard hardware, you might want to consider EastWest's Spaces and Spaces II (the follow up) as well. Sounds terrific and the price point is pretty reasonable.
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