The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Spitfire Westworld Scoring Competition
Old 1 week ago
  #61
Here for the gear
 

Inexperienced people take part in every competition.
It is always the case that few people have what it takes but only a handful can win.
The problem here is a completely different one.
The winner made a soundtrack that can best be interpreted as a parody. No director in the world would use this music in this scene unless the context provided.
It is very easy to accuse the masses of being too simple-minded.
You make it very easy when you highlight something just because it is different.
I can understand very well if you see 100 submissions a day and decide to rate something unexpected better. However, the unexpected must still fit the context, otherwise scoring to picture makes no sense.
5
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #62
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
Same. Some people are very upset, angry to point where I wonder how little hardship they've had in their life in general.

Production/writing is a prerequisite. The attitudes on top of it will make or break it for many.
What we're seeing in abundance, especially on YouTube, is quite young people that have attempted to write an homogenous track to a 4 minute video and then find the winners don't fit in with their narrative.

Where reality and fantasy part is when entitled brats automatically go into denial the second someone does something (in this case some music) that does not fit into the brainwashed world where failure and rejection doesn't exist. It's been well documented that this has become a big problem in schools over the last 20 years because of appalling teachers.

Don't like something. Then tear it down.
1
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #63
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Cook View Post
What we're seeing in abundance, especially on YouTube, is quite young people that have attempted to write an homogenous track to a 4 minute video and then find the winners don't fit in with their narrative.

Where reality and fantasy part is when entitled brats automatically go into denial the second someone does something (in this case some music) that does not fit into the brainwashed world where failure and rejection doesn't exist. It's been well documented that this has become a big problem in schools over the last 20 years because of appalling teachers.

Don't like something. Then tear it down.
So sorry, but what you're doing is really strange. Believe me. Just because someone doesn't like something else, he's not a brainwashed baby who never learned to let other thoughts take precedence.
3
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #64
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonjaeger2020 View Post
So sorry, but what you're doing is really strange. Believe me. Just because someone doesn't like something else, he's not a brainwashed baby who never learned to let other thoughts take precedence.
Adrian Cook (and some other guys in this thread) give life lessons to people, but they don't understand the point.
I think 90% of people are not shocked and angry because they were rejected.
Nobody was seriously expecting to win a competition against 11 000 challengers, not because they think they make bad music but because such number of participants makes it more a lottery than a competition...

They feel angry because the winning track is just a joke that doesn't fit the movie, doesn't seem to fit "what the judges were looking for" in the own terms of Paul Thomson, and even breaked some of the rules of the competition.
And of course, everybody knows the jury didn't listen 11 000 tracks (because it's just impossible). So at the end this whole competition looks like a bad joke.

What most people are feeling is that they participated in an unfair game and were fooled.

It's not a big deal, nobody will commit suicide or feel depressed about that, they will write a post on youtube, Facebook or gearslutz about that and forget it the day after, just like they would write something about the GUI of the last compressor from Arturia.

But what surprise me the most is not that. It's the number of arrogant guys explaining life to people they don't know, from a position nobody knows, speaking about professionalism but spending their free time on a forum and speaking about people exactly like if they were retired bigot speaking about young guys from their bench.

Maybe you've got some crazy credits to act like that, but I don't think so : usually, only small guys are arrogant and contemptuous. The great ones don't need it...
6
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #65
Lives for gear
 
badmark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
...
They feel angry because the winning track is just a joke that doesn't fit the movie ...
What most people are feeling is that they participated in an unfair game and were fooled.
...
Newsflash: 4 minutes out of 1 episode of a tv series is not a 'movie'.

Newsflash: if you think this was an 'unfair game', check out tennis. You can play a match, win more games yet still lose! (6-0, 4-6, 4-6, e.g.) Yet amazingly tennis players just suck this blatant injustice up and carry on playing!
Old 1 week ago
  #66
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmark View Post
Newsflash: 4 minutes out of 1 episode of a tv series is not a 'movie'.
Excuse my english. I'm not a native speaker. Do you speak another language ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmark View Post
Newsflash: if you think this was an 'unfair game', check out tennis. You can play a match, win more games yet still lose! (6-0, 4-6, 4-6, e.g.) Yet amazingly tennis players just suck this blatant injustice up and carry on playing!
It's an absurd comparison. Rules of the tennis are crystal clear, so it's a perfectly fair game where hazard or personal judgement are almost non existent. Your match is divided into sets and games, and the number of sets you need to win is known before you start to play... It's not about the number of games, it's about the number of sets you need to win.

But anyway, I'm speaking about what the people are feeling, not about what they should feel.
Old 1 week ago
  #67
Lives for gear
 
badmark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
Excuse my english. I'm not a native speaker. Do you speak another language ?

It's an absurd comparison. Rules of the tennis are crystal clear, so it's a perfectly fair game where hazard or personal judgement are almost non existent. Your match is divided into sets and games, and the number of sets you need to win is known before you start to play... It's not about the number of games, it's about the number of sets you need to win.

But anyway, I'm speaking about what the people are feeling, not about what they should feel.
Yes, I do speak other languages; and if I'm not sure whether I'm using the right word to describe something in them I consult a dictionary.

The rules of this competition were perhaps not as clear as they could have been in some ways - for instance, there were a few people whose entries got rejected because Spitfire confused BST and GMT between the website and the terms and conditions - but the fact that so many people are feeling 'upset' is ultimately on them and not on the competition.

I entered; I didn't win either.
Old 1 week ago
  #68
Lives for gear
 
jazz4's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
Adrian Cook (and some other guys in this thread) give life lessons to people, but they don't understand the point.
I think 90% of people are not shocked and angry because they were rejected.
Nobody was seriously expecting to win a competition against 11 000 challengers, not because they think they make bad music but because such number of participants makes it more a lottery than a competition...

They feel angry because the winning track is just a joke that doesn't fit the movie, doesn't seem to fit "what the judges were looking for" in the own terms of Paul Thomson, and even breaked some of the rules of the competition.
And of course, everybody knows the jury didn't listen 11 000 tracks (because it's just impossible). So at the end this whole competition looks like a bad joke.

What most people are feeling is that they participated in an unfair game and were fooled.

It's not a big deal, nobody will commit suicide or feel depressed about that, they will write a post on youtube, Facebook or gearslutz about that and forget it the day after, just like they would write something about the GUI of the last compressor from Arturia.

But what surprise me the most is not that. It's the number of arrogant guys explaining life to people they don't know, from a position nobody knows, speaking about professionalism but spending their free time on a forum and speaking about people exactly like if they were retired bigot speaking about young guys from their bench.

Maybe you've got some crazy credits to act like that, but I don't think so : usually, only small guys are arrogant and contemptuous. The great ones don't need it...
I can sympathise with composers who expected a different outcome but the blow back, in my opinion, has been extreme. That notion that “nobody was seriously expecting to win” isn't right. Of course they were.

A huge percentage (including myself) entered the competition with the idea of scoring it straight, like I’d been hired for the show - it’s a natural response to the competition. But then there was a small selection of composers who thought “I’m just gonna do something way outside the box and have fun with it.” Sometimes being boldly creative like that pays off, and in this case it did. He won, and I’m not surprised.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t see any rules that said “you must score it like it will be aired on HBO,” or “no parody allowed,” or “no chiptune can be used.” What “works to picture” is entirely up to the judges. In fact over at the VI forum, someone said they showed the winner to their non-music friends and they all loved it.

Do I think the winning track was the best one? Not really, but other composers are not the audience, the judges are.
5
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #69
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4 View Post
I can sympathise with composers who expected a different outcome but the blow back, in my opinion, has been extreme. That notion that “nobody was seriously expecting to win” isn't right. Of course they were.

A huge percentage (including myself) entered the competition with the idea of scoring it straight, like I’d been hired for the show - it’s a natural response to the competition. But then there was a small selection of composers who thought “I’m just gonna do something way outside the box and have fun with it.” Sometimes being boldly creative like that pays off, and in this case it did. He won, and I’m not surprised.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t see any rules that said “you must score it like it will be aired on HBO,” or “no parody allowed,” or “no chiptune can be used.” What “works to picture” is entirely up to the judges. In fact over at the VI forum, someone said they showed the winner to their non-music friends and they all loved it.

Do I think the winning track was the best one? Not really, but other composers are not the audience, the judges are.

It's right to do a parody. I think, like many others, that something like that can be listed under "outstanding performance". But as a winner? It was different in my non-musician environment. So far I have not found anyone who likes this.
Well the jury decided ..
Maybe they'll make a love scene next time. 98% will respond to the pictures and make atmospheric string sounds that make your heart bleed.
I'll stand out because I'm recording the sound of doing a handstand and catching insects with my butt.
Old 1 week ago
  #70
Here for the gear
 

I know it's subjective but I thought the winning entry was really badly done. The video game samples and sounds clashed really badly with the more orchestral bits and the ending was not the climax the scene called for. I would have placed every one of the runners up ahead of the winning entry. But I wasn't one of the judges.

I'd love to know how many of the entries they actually listened to. No way did they view 11,000 4 minute videos.
Old 1 week ago
  #71
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Ive been working in film for around 25 years. Guess what? Theres no rules! Composers win pitches all the time with something that other composers woudl consider "wrong". YOU might get a brief of one style, someone else will get it another way.

Even more - it's your job as a composer to understan the subtext and narrative. You dont just put music on that sounds cool to you, that seems to "fit the visuals". Working that way will give you a pretty short career as a TV/Film composer.

So - did I like the winning music? No. Did it deserve to win? Yes. Why? Because it absolutely nailed the scene. It worked in context with what the episode was about (the genre skipping drug) and "Liams" hallucinations. Subtext, remember? I listened to quite a few submissions (people sent me them ... maybe about 30?).... and so many of them were doing the "reflect whats on screen" thing. Nobody does that, that's for cartoon. Narrative, subtext. Those are the goals.



<addition>
Ive judged on BAFTA a few times and a couple others. Judging is always unfair - every judge has their own agenda. Tough. Thats how it is. You cant second guess. All you can do is thrill and grab attention. To those who are saying it wasnt well done? .....
It was superbly done. I didnt like it, but there is real skill and work in there. I mix film score for a living, I was impressed by the mix alone - it worked.

Ive worked with hundreds of composers over the years - they all bring something new to a project. Vision on a gig is ALL the gig. Ability in music? Thats just your entry ticket. The winner got it, the rest didnt. It doesnt matter what you think of the music; this will happen to you in your professional careers. You will get inored in favour of someone who made the team laugh, cry, notice you etc. That's how it is.

Others have said " Hans or Williams wouldnt have done this"... yeah - but Elfman would! So come on - its a competition! The exercise and the lesson in how directors choose stuff that thrills them, was worth it surely?
8
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #72
Here for the gear
 
Fab4's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Cook View Post
A real composer! Wow! That's awesome. A real composer like Vivaldi or Schubert on this thread.
I think you have misinterpreted my words.

I said i thought i should score that scene thinking i was the composer (the real= Ramin Djawadi) hired to score the series.

I'm very very far from be like Vivaldi or Shubert...
1
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #73
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Ive been working in film for around 25 years. Guess what? Theres no rules! Composers win pitches all the time with something that other composers woudl consider "wrong". YOU might get a brief of one style, someone else will get it another way.

Even more - it's your job as a composer to understan the subtext and narrative. You dont just put music on that sounds cool to you, that seems to "fit the visuals". Working that way will give you a pretty short career as a TV/Film composer.

So - did I like the winning music? No. Did it deserve to win? Yes. Why? Because it absolutely nailed the scene. It worked in context with what the episode was about (the genre skipping drug) and "Liams" hallucinations. Subtext, remember? I listened to quite a few submissions (people sent me them ... maybe about 30?).... and so many of them were doing the "reflect whats on screen" thing. Nobody does that, that's for cartoon. Narrative, subtext. Those are the goals.



<addition>
Ive judged on BAFTA a few times and a couple others. Judging is always unfair - every judge has their own agenda. Tough. Thats how it is. You cant second guess. All you can do is thrill and grab attention. To those who are saying it wasnt well done? .....
It was superbly done. I didnt like it, but there is real skill and work in there. I mix film score for a living, I was impressed by the mix alone - it worked.

Ive worked with hundreds of composers over the years - they all bring something new to a project. Vision on a gig is ALL the gig. Ability in music? Thats just your entry ticket. The winner got it, the rest didnt. It doesnt matter what you think of the music; this will happen to you in your professional careers. You will get inored in favour of someone who made the team laugh, cry, notice you etc. That's how it is.

Others have said " Hans or Williams wouldnt have done this"... yeah - but Elfman would! So come on - its a competition! The exercise and the lesson in how directors choose stuff that thrills them, was worth it surely?
I fully agree with you. Kudell's submission is very well produced and, as I have already written, it would be perfect if it were not for scoring to picture.
But my opinion is also very subjective and I haven't seen season three.
If the drug transfers you to an 8-bit simulation or something, the context makes sense.
Nevertheless, the images of the scene speak a different visual language, which is why I classify it as a parody.
I just think it's a shame that people generalize from many directions.
Some unpack conspiracy theories and flood the Internet with hate.
The others insult anyone who gives constructive criticism as hater.
The VI forum is very civil, but you could read a lot of junk on youtube.
1
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #74
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonjaeger2020 View Post
Nevertheless, the images of the scene speak a different visual language, which is why I classify it as a parody.
I just think it's a shame that people generalize from many directions.
Some unpack conspiracy theories and flood the Internet with hate.
The others insult anyone who gives constructive criticism as hater.
The VI forum is very civil, but you could read a lot of junk on youtube.
Yup - and that also makes sense. David saw it a particular way and ran with it. Then he executed that vision perfectly.
1
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #75
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Yup - and that also makes sense. David saw it a particular way and ran with it. Then he executed that vision perfectly.
He definitely implemented his vision perfectly.
As I said, I haven't seen season three. The scene itself would make no sense to me if the protagonist switches between the real world and an 8bit world, but the visual shows only the real world and the music shows the 8bit world.
But that would not be Kudell's fault.
Old 1 week ago
  #76
Lives for gear
 

No matter how you spin it, a competition where the organizers are not following the rules they wrote is a joke, and goes a long way in showing the disrespect the organizers have for the competitors. That's valid for every kind of competition. Hiding by blocking youtube comments and stats is another form of disrespect to all participants. I'm happy I didn't participate, but I can fully understand people are feeling frustrated by the attitude of Spitfire. Judges decided the winner and that's fine with me, but how all the rest has been managed is in my opinion not fair and seriously unprofessional.
Old 1 week ago
  #77
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonjaeger2020 View Post
So sorry, but what you're doing is really strange. Believe me. Just because someone doesn't like something else, he's not a brainwashed baby who never learned to let other thoughts take precedence.
But I don't care what you like or dislike. I don't care what other people think and neither should the winners of anything.

I like blue for instance. Maybe you like green. Who cares what other people like. If we ran around worrying about what others like we'd be in big trouble.

The reactions of the vast majority to this rather insignificant contest, is about as mysterious to me as blocked toilet is to a ****ing plumber. (Cheers for that one Al.)
1
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #78
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Cook View Post
But I don't care what you like or dislike. I don't care what other people think and neither should the winners of anything.

I like blue for instance. Maybe you like green. Who cares what other people like. If we ran around worrying about what others like we'd be in big trouble.

The reactions of the vast majority to this rather insignificant contest, is about as mysterious to me as blocked toilet is to a ****ing plumber. (Cheers for that one Al.)
You are right, everyone likes something different, but you can discuss your opinion without claiming to be absolute.
And it is true that many comments were without level. But not all. And if my opinion is not important to you, you don't have to answer me.
But throwing any criticism into a drawer with Internet trolls is wrong.
1
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonjaeger2020 View Post
He definitely implemented his vision perfectly.
As I said, I haven't seen season three. The scene itself would make no sense to me if the protagonist switches between the real world and an 8bit world, but the visual shows only the real world and the music shows the 8bit world.
But that would not be Kudell's fault.
Had I entered this contest, the first thing I would have done is watched season 3.
1
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #80
Wow, congratulations to David Kudell. He seems like a nice enough guy and he did a wonderful job in the competition. He deserves this victory!!

David’s site: https://www.rimrockcreativemedia.com/music

Even Hans Zimmer is standing up for David: https://vi-control.net/community/thr...7#post-4586985

Last edited by Desire Inspires; 1 week ago at 01:54 PM..
1
Share
Old 1 week ago
  #81
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
Had I entered this contest, the first thing I would have done is watched season 3.
I didn't feel the need to watch 10 episodes. The scene inspired me and I didn't find myself lost. I don't think I would have done anything differently.
Old 1 week ago
  #82
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Everything you neeed to know about film scoring...

4
Share
Old 6 days ago
  #83
Lol!!!
Closed
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
♾️ Similar Threads
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump