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Anyone concerned with royalties taking a hit with the virus?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Anyone concerned with royalties taking a hit with the virus?

My gut reaction is that performance royalties are virus and pandemic proof, due to the fact that TV ain't going off the air anytime soon. (Long term is maybe a different conversation). And as long as the shows air, royalties will be generated, and assumingly, distributed.

Maybe I am missing something? What do the rest of you think? I can afford to take a bit of a hit with royalties, but not too much.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

If you work on scripted shows, with actors, producers, directors, costumers etc - you've got a problem, they're shutting down indefinitely.

Reality and talk shows might last a bit longer, but eventually will have to shut down unless they can find a way to keep people safely isolated.

In the United States, you have to assume anyone you come in contact with could be carrying the virus.

So yes, royalties will take a hit, later than sooner, but less programming means less money.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Head
 

People staying home more, people watching TV more, people consuming content more.

Although the consumer doesn't have as much discretionary income.

Complex issue. Overall, I think it's a negative for production music.

Def not as hard hit as other industries.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Addict
 

Not that I know anything about it really, so this is pure speculation: I think as Sharp11 wrote that the production of new content will slow down. On the other hand, people are probably watching much more tv than normal these times, as youngrichyrich wrote. If you put that together, it could mean that already existing content gets used more. So maybe there will be a (sharp?) decline in new assignments, but an increase of the usage of production music that is already out there.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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drBill's Avatar
BMI Pres said we should expect dramatic cuts next year for this season. I don't get it. Music is still being broadcast over every venue it was last year. If anything, MORE music / performances are being consumed by people being locked down and bored. BMI has shown consistent decline, and I for one would like to know where the money is going.

Royalties are royalties and have no basis on whether or not scripted shows and other current productions are going into hibernation. They will show re-reruns if the show is not in current production.

now....if you're relying on the $$$ from producing music for shows in current production, that's a different story, you're hosed. But the OP's question was regarding royalties, not money from current gigs.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

The money we (PROs) collect comes from a healthy industry - an industry that collects revenue from advertisers, live stage acts, licensees and distributors constantly hungry for new content.

That's where the money we all enjoy comes from.

If the industry is crippled, there's less money coming in, and to go around.

I may be wrong, and I hope I am, but expecting a hit seems like common sense to me.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
If you work on scripted shows, with actors, producers, directors, costumers etc - you've got a problem, they're shutting down indefinitely.

Reality and talk shows might last a bit longer, but eventually will have to shut down unless they can find a way to keep people safely isolated.

In the United States, you have to assume anyone you come in contact with could be carrying the virus.

So yes, royalties will take a hit, later than sooner, but less programming means less money.
The shows I'm working on for Dreamworks are not. Warner Bros is shutting down for 2 weeks and then is reopening and continuing.

The list of essential services that are allowed to stay open during this Martial Law include TV and media services here in Los Angeles. I'll still be coming to the studios to mix shows and work during the lockdown. I got a letter to present to law enforcement at the checkpoints that allows me through so I can get to the studio.

It's totally messed up and the US has very quickly turned into Venezuela or East Berlin before the wall came down... where you need to present "papers" to authorities showing you have permission from the state to be outside your house, otherwise you will be getting arrested.

this is only the beginning... it is about to get a lot worse...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
The money we (PROs) collect comes from a healthy industry - an industry that collects revenue from advertisers, live stage acts, licensees and distributors constantly hungry for new content.

That's where the money we all enjoy comes from.

If the industry is crippled, there's less money coming in, and to go around.

I may be wrong, and I hope I am, but expecting a hit seems like common sense to me.

This is all true, but balance that with the fact that MORE time will be spent in front of the TV than ever before. More commercials viewed. More content consumed. How does that translate to less revenue for networks.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
It's totally messed up and the US has very quickly turned into Venezuela or East Berlin before the wall came down... where you need to present "papers" to authorities showing you have permission from the state to be outside your house, otherwise you will be getting arrested.
Are you serious Derek? That's insane. I've only been LIGHTLY following CA and LA developments. My son is hoping to get out of Palm Desert and over here before things get too clamped down.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
BMI Pres said we should expect dramatic cuts next year for this season. I don't get it. Music is still being broadcast over every venue it was last year. If anything, MORE music / performances are being consumed by people being locked down and bored. BMI has shown consistent decline, and I for one would like to know where the money is going.

Royalties are royalties and have no basis on whether or not scripted shows and other current productions are going into hibernation. They will show re-reruns if the show is not in current production.

now....if you're relying on the $$$ from producing music for shows in current production, that's a different story, you're hosed. But the OP's question was regarding royalties, not money from current gigs.
I received an email from a European PRO that warned there could be problems actually processing and paying royalties this summer.

Imagine this "All royalties from (random network) are postponed until November due to royalty staff shortages".

YIKES!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
The shows I'm working on for Dreamworks are not. Warner Bros is shutting down for 2 weeks and then is reopening and continuing.

The list of essential services that are allowed to stay open during this Martial Law include TV and media services here in Los Angeles. I'll still be coming to the studios to mix shows and work during the lockdown. I got a letter to present to law enforcement at the checkpoints that allows me through so I can get to the studio.

It's totally messed up and the US has very quickly turned into Venezuela or East Berlin before the wall came down... where you need to present "papers" to authorities showing you have permission from the state to be outside your house, otherwise you will be getting arrested.

this is only the beginning... it is about to get a lot worse...
I contribute to one of the CBS soaps produced at the CBS center out where you are - we ended production and have no date to start back up.

Frankly, putting on my good citizen hat, I don't think a two-week shutdown accomplishes much of anything. In two weeks, things will be much worse, and everyone we come into contact with will still be a potential carrier - except they'll be even more of them - even if showing no symptoms.

All on-set crew members will have to follow incredibly rigorous hygiene and actors will have to shoot scenes separate from one another, or at least six feet apart.

How do you deal with makeup, costumers, microphone fitters etc. al?

I think we're in for a very rough ride - a good year's worth, unless the virus magically disappears.

What people new to collecting royalties should know and understand is you won't see the decline in your payments right away, it'll come later. I've been on shows that have been cancelled and collected nice checks for up to three years after last airings - especially on the network soaps where foreign first runs are delayed by a couple of years.

When I think of the cascading effect of all this, i get bummed - i used to take solace in having great investments to fall back on, but let's not even go there. :(
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
I received an email from a European PRO that warned there could be problems actually processing and paying royalties this summer.

Imagine this "All royalties from (random network) are postponed until November due to royalty staff shortages".

YIKES!
BIG Yikes!!!! I thought computers dialed all this in.....how hard can it be?

Oh wait, I forgot about the slush funds, and moving money around to favorite projects.

Hey, come to think of it - the Aspen film festival will be shut down, SXSW will be shut down, Coachella is shut down, etc.. What have they got to do now other than figure out how much to pay us???
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
BMI Pres said we should expect dramatic cuts next year for this season. I don't get it. Music is still being broadcast over every venue it was last year.
Concerts, sports events, theater, live tv events, etc. generate performance royalties and all are cancelled for the foreseeable future.

Other than a complete financial collapse I'm not sure how TV royalties could be affected. Those PRO licenses have already been negotiated, some for several years in advance.

I guess we'll find out.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
BIG Yikes!!!! I thought computers dialed all this in.....how hard can it be?

Oh wait, I forgot about the slush funds, and moving money around to favorite projects.

Hey, come to think of it - the Aspen film festival will be shut down, SXSW will be shut down, Coachella is shut down, etc.. What have they got to do now other than figure out how much to pay us???
Yea! The email was actually well thought out, like the PRO took time to asses the situation in a detailed manner..that's the scary part!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehrenebbage View Post
Concerts, sports events, theater, live tv events, etc. generate performance royalties and all are cancelled for the foreseeable future.

Other than a complete financial collapse I'm not sure how TV royalties could be affected. Those PRO licenses have already been negotiated, some for several years in advance.

I guess we'll find out.
A lot of people thought that about pensions that went away. If there's unusual and overwhelming circumstances, anything can be "renegotiated".
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
There isn’t much I can do about it, so I am not worried.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

ASCAP and BMI have both said that the type of license money collected goes to that type of payout. So, TV/Broadcast goes to composers, Radio goes to the songwriters, etc. We'll soon see if that's true or not. There's absolutely no reason royalties should go down unless things go off air.

Right now, music streaming, video streaming, and TV viewership has shot through the roof. How does that equate to less royalties? This should only affect licenses related to live venues and restaurant/bars.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
ASCAP and BMI have both said that the type of license money collected goes to that type of payout. So, TV/Broadcast goes to composers, Radio goes to the songwriters, etc. We'll soon see if that's true or not. There's absolutely no reason royalties should go down unless things go off air.

Right now, music streaming, video streaming, and TV viewership has shot through the roof. How does that equate to less royalties? This should only affect licenses related to live venues and restaurant/bars.
Here's what I'm thinking..

1) "Newer" composers who were banking on 2020 March Madness and 2020 Olympics placements are going to be out of luck. Hopefully they got money UPFRONT from libraries to compose the cues...

2) Film composers who have movies in theaters are going to see the international checks suffer. Australia and NZ just closed movie theaters outright. Other countries could follow suit.

3) Live venues...YIKES. Total total total disaster. The bright-ish side is that if your tracks are popular enough to be played live in stadiums, areas, clubs etc.. they're probably making money in other areas as well (Spotify, radio etc..)

4) A European PRO warned there might be problems in processing/paying royalties, since their employees can't come to the office and/or get the Corona.

I'm overall bullish on Amazon/Hulu/Netflix. I'm bearish on libraries who don't pay for music and the composers that "work" for them..

Also a library just released a Coronavirus themed "dark music" album with a virus molecule as its artwork. I am bearish on that!

I'm bullish on a Spanish language I did for a big money library. Looks like it's getting mixed and will be released soon. It will send a shockwave through the production music industry unlike anything anyones ever seen!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
ASCAP and BMI have both said that the type of license money collected goes to that type of payout. So, TV/Broadcast goes to composers, Radio goes to the songwriters, etc. We'll soon see if that's true or not. There's absolutely no reason royalties should go down unless things go off air.

Right now, music streaming, video streaming, and TV viewership has shot through the roof. How does that equate to less royalties? This should only affect licenses related to live venues and restaurant/bars.

Agreed 100%. BUT, my faith in BMI / ASCAP is not that strong. Somehow I suspect - just as it is now - our monies will find their way trickling out of our direction and into other streams.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
ASCAP and BMI have both said that the type of license money collected goes to that type of payout. So, TV/Broadcast goes to composers, Radio goes to the songwriters, etc. We'll soon see if that's true or not. There's absolutely no reason royalties should go down unless things go off air.

Right now, music streaming, video streaming, and TV viewership has shot through the roof. How does that equate to less royalties? This should only affect licenses related to live venues and restaurant/bars.
Ideally we would all make out like bandits thanks to captive tv audiences, but I fear this chaos and uncertainty will result in missing cue sheets, bad reporting and shoddy work from PROs
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsherP View Post
Ideally we would all make out like bandits thanks to captive tv audiences, but I fear this chaos and uncertainty will result in missing cue sheets, bad reporting and shoddy work from PROs
Yep. I won’t be surprised to see a lot of potential royalties vanishing into thin air because of “limited workforce.”
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsherP View Post
Ideally we would all make out like bandits thanks to captive tv audiences, but I fear this chaos and uncertainty will result in missing cue sheets, bad reporting and shoddy work from PROs
Shoulda been working, but they were home surfing Gearslutz.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
Also a library just released a Coronavirus themed "dark music" album with a virus molecule as its artwork. I am bearish on that!
Christ. Sick bastards.
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
It's totally messed up and the US has very quickly turned into Venezuela or East Berlin before the wall came down... where you need to present "papers" to authorities showing you have permission from the state to be outside your house, otherwise you will be getting arrested.

this is only the beginning... it is about to get a lot worse...
Not that I disagree on some level, but to play devils advocate here, if we retain free will during this, then shouldn't the health care industry/workers also be able to exercise their free will?

It seems pretty reasonable to me that health care providers refuse to treat people who, in turn, refuse to help minimize this relatively massive risk to them.

I wonder how many people who want to go back to normal would be willing to do it if they had to sign papers affirming that they would forgo any and all health care during this?
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Not that I disagree on some level, but to play devils advocate here, if we retain free will during this, then shouldn't the health care industry/workers also be able to exercise their free will?

It seems pretty reasonable to me that health care providers refuse to treat people who, in turn, refuse to help minimize this relatively massive risk to them.

I wonder how many people who want to go back to normal would be willing to do it if they had to sign papers affirming that they would forgo any and all health care during this?
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/m...ticlekey=20909
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Not that I disagree on some level, but to play devils advocate here, if we retain free will during this, then shouldn't the health care industry/workers also be able to exercise their free will?

It seems pretty reasonable to me that health care providers refuse to treat people who, in turn, refuse to help minimize this relatively massive risk to them.

I wonder how many people who want to go back to normal would be willing to do it if they had to sign papers affirming that they would forgo any and all health care during this?
Oh, and this...

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org...arison/2006-05
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
If you work on scripted shows, with actors, producers, directors, costumers etc - you've got a problem, they're shutting down indefinitely.

Reality and talk shows might last a bit longer, but eventually will have to shut down unless they can find a way to keep people safely isolated.

In the United States, you have to assume anyone you come in contact with could be carrying the virus.

So yes, royalties will take a hit, later than sooner, but less programming means less money.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...-filming-in-la

Quote:
On-location filming at all locations is temporarily restricted to productions with a combined cast and crew of 250 people or fewer, while filming on city property is limited to productions with 50 or fewer people.
Quote:
In an update to a notice on its website, FilmLA is continuing to process permits, with the exception of some L.A school campuses where filming and scouting have been halted through the end of March.
Quote:
FilmLA posted on its website. “As of Thursday, filming activity continues to occur on area streets and stages, providing economic security for local families.”
Old 1 week ago
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
I'm not sure pulling the ethics card is going to win you anything here...Medical professionals surely have a right to protect their lives, and the lives of their families first.

But also did you read either of those first?

The hippocratic oath says:

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

That easily justifies going to the public and saying if you make no effort for prevention, then we will make no effort for care. Because the outcome would certainly be more people making the choice to prevention.

But also neither of those address when the patients choices are putting the medical professionals life, and the lives of their families at risk. The second one is mostly about money...

Anyway we're off topic and I know these are tense times. I don't like this anymore than anyone else does, but I think it's a complicated issue and it doesn't hurt to think through different aspects of it.
Old 1 week ago
  #29
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I'm not sure pulling the ethics card is going to win you anything here...Medical professionals surely have a right to protect their lives, and the lives of their families first.

But also did you read either of those first?

The hippocratic oath says:

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

That easily justifies going to the public and saying if you make no effort for prevention, then we will make no effort for care. Because the outcome would certainly be more people making the choice to prevention.

But also neither of those address when the patients choices are putting the medical professionals life, and the lives of their families at risk. The second one is mostly about money...

Anyway we're off topic and I know these are tense times. I don't like this anymore than anyone else does, but I think it's a complicated issue and it doesn't hurt to think through different aspects of it.
We can't control what other people do. Only ourselves. If people want to go about like nothing is happening, so be it. If medical professionals want to "call in sick", so be it. If they don't want to do their jobs, then they should seek other ways to make a living. There is inherent risk for any medical professional - Covid19 or no Covid19.
Old 1 week ago
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
We can't control what other people do. Only ourselves. If people want to go about like nothing is happening, so be it. If medical professionals want to "call in sick", so be it. If they don't want to do their jobs, then they should seek other ways to make a living. There is inherent risk for any medical professional - Covid19 or no Covid19.
Absolutely.

Protect yourself and the people closest to you. Do not rely on anyone else to save you.
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