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New California Law Targets Musicians
Old 3 days ago
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
Well, to all my producer/musician friends back in California... Reach out if you need to use my facility here in Washington state (on paper)!

Man I miss LA less and less
I will definitely keep you in mind... and I dislike LA more and more every day...
Old 3 days ago
  #62
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bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papanate View Post
I think the bigger picture is that musicians let themselves be undervalued. I've never heard of a Plumber having to a take a huge cut in pay because one of the neighbors said he would fix the problem for $25 and a beer. Yet that scenario happened all the time in the gig world. I've also never heard of a electrician taking a gig with out signed papers stating the parameters of the repair - yet musicians play plenty of places based on the word of some pretty sketchy owners and producers. And I've not heard of any Retail business letting customers take merchandise based on how many other people buy something - yet in clubs around the country Bands play for the 'door'.

As for devaluing music - Sure there is a large demographic that grew up not wanting to pay for music - but that's because musicians and record companies were afraid to alienate the fan base by bringing down the hammer on ripping off music (like the incredibly popular MP3.com and Napster). And how many people and musicians made fun of Lars from Mettalica when he went off on these music stealing business?

But even within the music community they rip each other off - such as the abundance of pirated software being used by the very musicians complaining about not being paid for their music.


But we can't blame musicians too much - musicians who came before wouldn' school musicians coming up - telling them to pay attention to the business end - telling them that Record Companies aren't Angles but Investors looking for a return - Telling the younger generation to hire their own lawyer to look over a contract - and to tell the truly talented to not accept the paltry contracts where they had to give away publishing and ownership in order to get 'signed'. It's understandable that a given company is taking a huge risk - but it's also more likely to have incentive bonuses that change the contract if the album is a success.

But that's enough about my pet peeves....
That’s romantic, but, not remotely true.... people in every industry are willing to Hooker themselves lower than the old guy to grab a new territory, market share

Let me introduce you to....

Drug dealers
Pimps
Walmart
Amazon
Netflix
McDonald’s
Uber
Lyft
Etc
Old 3 days ago
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
Also...for any musician wanting to start a corporation in California, there's an $800/yr tax/fee at MINIMUM - regardless if your LLC brought in $0 - they still want a minimum of $800 per year.

Lastly, the IRS doesn't recognize a single member LLC as a real corporation, only a "pass through" entity. CA could take this stance as well..

What a boondoggle.
Also just FYI... musicians that incorporate are still subject from AB5 because of the nature of the business they conduct with the entity that is hiring them. I've already talked to several employment attorneys who do a lot of work in the entertainment industry. Composers are a different story and are not subject to this law... but session musicians and live musicians are subject to the law and have to be switched to full time employees.
Old 3 days ago
  #64
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Papanate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
That’s romantic, but, not remotely true.... people in every industry are willing to Hooker themselves lower than the old guy to grab a new territory, market share
Competition is part of being in business. However there are very few Plumbing Companies with a good reputation that drop base rates because some knucklehead wants to pretend to be a plumber - or an electrician - or a skyscraper construction worker etc...


Quote:
Drug dealers
Pimps
Walmart
Amazon
Netflix
McDonald’s
Uber
Lyft
Etc
I don't know what you mean - nor how this applies to what I was speaking too.
Old 3 days ago
  #65
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
technically speaking, taxing people's income was illegal and unconstitutional until congress decided to force it upon the people, against the will of the people. Congress passed the 16th amendment to the constitution in 1913 but the vast majority of the population was completely against it.

https://famguardian.org/Publications...eatIRSHoax.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polloc..._%26_Trust_Co.

Second, it's not cheating taxes if you move from a state where the government knowingly and opening steals your money for their own personal gains through the use of taxation, to a state which does not practice such behavior.

But that is a discussion for a different forum

Again, there is NO (as in zero, none) states in the United States that you can reside in and not pay federal income tax. If you are under reporting your income you are cheating on your FEDERAL (not state) taxes.

It is crazy to me that an internet forum that strictly forbids discussion on the crime of pirated software is so causal about its members discussing ways to break federal laws.

Also, we don't live in 1913. This 2020 and this is a nation of laws, if you don't like it leave. We already have enough poorly educated citizens, you won't be missed.
Old 3 days ago
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLurker View Post
Again, there is NO (as in zero, none) states in the United States that you can reside in and not pay federal income tax. If you are under reporting your income you are cheating on your FEDERAL (not state) taxes.

It is crazy to me that an internet forum that strictly forbids discussion on the crime of pirated software is so causal about its members discussing ways to break federal laws.

Also, we don't live in 1913. This 2020 and this is a nation of laws, if you don't like it leave. We already have enough poorly educated citizens, you won't be missed.
Thank you IRS informant.
Old 3 days ago
  #67
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
Where are you now, Bill?
In a beautiful environment where there are already too many Californians moving too. I'd prefer not to put it out on the inter-webs. PM if you really want to know.
Old 3 days ago
  #68
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
Man I miss LA less and less
The only thing I miss is the mass variety of killer restaurants.

And friends. But many of them are prepping to move so.... who knows on that front.
Old 3 days ago
  #69
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
and I dislike LA more and more every day...
There IS life outside of LA D. Different, but definitely interesting. If you ever wanna make a trip over.... . Beautiful snow this last week, almost gone now though....
Old 3 days ago
  #70
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLurker View Post
Again, there is NO (as in zero, none) states in the United States that you can reside in and not pay federal income tax. If you are under reporting your income you are cheating on your FEDERAL (not state) taxes.

It is crazy to me that an internet forum that strictly forbids discussion on the crime of pirated software is so causal about its members discussing ways to break federal laws.

Also, we don't live in 1913. This 2020 and this is a nation of laws, if you don't like it leave. We already have enough poorly educated citizens, you won't be missed.

No one is talking about not paying federal taxes. There are MANY forms of taxation that do not happen on April 15 every year. Property, Business, Sales, and in this case - having to actually become an "employer" the same as IBM or Apple if you want to hire musicians. Just dumb. And the dumbest thing? Musicians could easily have been exempted from the law, but the musicians union lobbied against the vast majority it's members in favor of the elite few in that respect. Yeah, this is 2020 - no doubt about that.

Last edited by drBill; 3 days ago at 11:39 PM..
Old 3 days ago
  #71
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bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
In a beautiful environment where there are already too many Californians moving too. I'd prefer not to put it out on the inter-webs. PM if you really want to know.
Haha me too... PMd you
Old 3 days ago
  #72
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bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papanate View Post
Competition is part of being in business. However there are very few Plumbing Companies with a good reputation that drop base rates because some knucklehead wants to pretend to be a plumber - or an electrician - or a skyscraper construction worker etc...




I don't know what you mean - nor how this applies to what I was speaking too.
All of those “disruptors” were able to open markets selling at loss to capture market... Jesus, uber still loses billions every year

So, while I will admit that I don’t know a plumber that will play a club for the door (or fix my toliet for tips) the idea of messing up commerce for the next guy is not exclusive to musicians
Old 3 days ago
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
The only thing I miss is the mass variety of killer restaurants.

And friends. But many of them are prepping to move so.... who knows on that front.
...i thought you were going to say "the variety of mass killers in restaurants"?!
Old 3 days ago
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLurker View Post
Again, there is NO (as in zero, none) states in the United States that you can reside in and not pay federal income tax. If you are under reporting your income you are cheating on your FEDERAL (not state) taxes.

It is crazy to me that an internet forum that strictly forbids discussion on the crime of pirated software is so causal about its members discussing ways to break federal laws.

Also, we don't live in 1913.
You know what, you are right! You have convinced me, I will do what our politicians like Romney, Bush, Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, Harris, Feinstein, Clintons, etc do and move all my money into a trust in the Cayman Islands. Then I can legally not pay taxes on it just like them, and I don't have to move outside the country and deal with all the foreign visa paperwork!

Quote:
This 2020 and this is a nation of laws, if you don't like it leave. We already have enough poorly educated citizens, you won't be missed.
Very good point. You are right, my tax dollars will not be missed, so why should I bother to pay them?! You've helped me make the decision to do it. I'm going to follow in the footsteps of the greats before us like the Kennedy family and the Bush Family, and the Clintons and move my savings, investments and business holdings to a trust in the Caymans or Bahamas so I can avoid paying taxes the legal way just like our politicians do. That you for the advice!

And maybe I should move to Mexico, buy a nice house in Rosarito or San Felipe... Then when I cross back over the border to work in LA, I'm technically an illegal alien, don't have to pay taxes and don't have to follow the laws of the US (just an FYI, California DOJ does not enforce a lot of the federal and state laws on illegal aliens). Another great idea you gave me, so thank you for that!
Old 3 days ago
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...i thought you were going to say "the variety of mass killers in restaurants"?!
the thing I will miss most about California is the cartels and other organized criminal organizations getting to run lawlessly throughout the state with impunity.
Old 3 days ago
  #76
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Also just FYI... musicians that incorporate are still subject from AB5 because of the nature of the business they conduct with the entity that is hiring them. I've already talked to several employment attorneys who do a lot of work in the entertainment industry. Composers are a different story and are not subject to this law... but session musicians and live musicians are subject to the law and have to be switched to full time employees.
Trying to understand all this fully. I do some work occasionally as an arranger/mockup producer where I’m taking a sketch to fully finished cue for a composer as an 1099 independent contractor. This seems like something that would be affected by AB5, but I’m not entirely sure what to do about it.
Old 3 days ago
  #77
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AfterViewer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
the thing I will miss most about California is the cartels and other organized criminal organizations getting to run lawlessly throughout the state with impunity.
Ah, yes... Sweet Sanctuary. California is most generous, haven't been back since '76.
Old 3 days ago
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Also just FYI... musicians that incorporate are still subject from AB5 because of the nature of the business they conduct with the entity that is hiring them. I've already talked to several employment attorneys who do a lot of work in the entertainment industry. Composers are a different story and are not subject to this law... but session musicians and live musicians are subject to the law and have to be switched to full time employees.
EXACTLY! I was advised that paying single-payer corporate entities could still be a violation of AB5..

Good thing I'm moving to Asia for the foreseeable future to launch my new Asian and Chinese catalogues!!
Old 3 days ago
  #79
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenose View Post
Trying to understand all this fully. I do some work occasionally as an arranger/mockup producer where I’m taking a sketch to fully finished cue for a composer as an 1099 independent contractor. This seems like something that would be affected by AB5, but I’m not entirely sure what to do about it.
In all seriousness, talk to an entertainment attorney AND entertainment accountant.
Old 3 days ago
  #80
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenose View Post
Trying to understand all this fully. I do some work occasionally as an arranger/mockup producer where I’m taking a sketch to fully finished cue for a composer as an 1099 independent contractor. This seems like something that would be affected by AB5, but I’m not entirely sure what to do about it.
AB5 says that technically, you are now an employee of your composer - not an independent contractor. That has several ramifications - including not being able to write off various aspects of your business that you may have in the past.

You'd best be getting advice from Legal council and/or your accountant. You, and to a greater extent - your employer, can quite possibly be getting into serious legal / tax areas. Time will show how all this works out, but I don't think ignorance is a good legal defense.
Old 3 days ago
  #81
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robert82's Avatar
I moved to Vermont to get away from the ****estorm that I foresaw in Cali. Born in Santa Barbara in 1952, left the state in 2003. I've been watching from the Right coast and it's like sitting in the bleachers at a demolition derby. But . . . Vermont is revenue hungry, and we're starting to see a tightening of the tax laws here too. I think it's country-wide, with states having to bear the burden of federal cuts. At least we don't have fires. Vermont is sometimes called The Asbestos State.

Oh. And, Californians welcome. We need your capital.
Old 2 days ago
  #82
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
You know what, you are right! You have convinced me, I will do what our politicians like Romney, Bush, Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, Harris, Feinstein, Clintons, etc do and move all my money into a trust in the Cayman Islands. Then I can legally not pay taxes on it just like them, and I don't have to move outside the country and deal with all the foreign visa paperwork!



Very good point. You are right, my tax dollars will not be missed, so why should I bother to pay them?! You've helped me make the decision to do it. I'm going to follow in the footsteps of the greats before us like the Kennedy family and the Bush Family, and the Clintons and move my savings, investments and business holdings to a trust in the Caymans or Bahamas so I can avoid paying taxes the legal way just like our politicians do. That you for the advice!

And maybe I should move to Mexico, buy a nice house in Rosarito or San Felipe... Then when I cross back over the border to work in LA, I'm technically an illegal alien, don't have to pay taxes and don't have to follow the laws of the US (just an FYI, California DOJ does not enforce a lot of the federal and state laws on illegal aliens). Another great idea you gave me, so thank you for that!
This sounds very familiar to me, you are basically describing a bunch of European countries, especially in South and East of Europe. It's always bloody politicians and their interest, along with their sponsors (banks, big companies, etc.) causing the trouble...
Old 2 days ago
  #83
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Hmm. That's hefty. I'm guessing that $800 is basically a corporate tax minimum or something. So, pay $70+ for foreign qualify, then pay $800 minimum in taxes. I don't know how people in California bring home more than 50% of their paycheck. They're getting hit from every direction. Kinda insane.
I’ve had an LLC since 2011 for my music business. Each April, I’ve paid $800.00 to the Franchise Tax Board for the Franchise Tax Fee. If you don’t pay it each year before your LLC’s Anniversary Date, the state will begin egregious fines and penalties that will not be reversed under any circumstances.

Also, each LLC owner is required to file a California Statement Of Information form, which costs $25 dollars plus postage, every other year. If not filed timely, more egregious fines and penalties will be incurred.

There are internet companies that will create an LLC, often for a thousand dollars or more and don’t include the Franchise Tax Fee, or you can file it for yourself. IIRC, I think it was something like $125 dollars total.
Old 2 days ago
  #84
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
I’ve had an LLC since 2011 for my music business. Each April, I’ve paid $800.00 to the Franchise Tax Board for the Franchise Tax Fee. If you don’t pay it each year before your LLC’s Anniversary Date, the state will begin egregious fines and penalties that will not be reversed under any circumstances.

Also, each LLC owner is required to file a California Statement Of Information form, which costs $25 dollars plus postage, every other year. If not filed timely, more egregious fines and penalties will be incurred.

There are internet companies that will create an LLC, often for a thousand dollars or more and don’t include the Franchise Tax Fee, or you can file it for yourself. IIRC, I think it was something like $125 dollars total.
Cost of doing business, I guess. I have no idea what I pay in Utah. None of this sounds familiar... I think I paid my fees to incorporate, then I just pay my $50/yr for a business license and personal property taxes to the county. Definitely not $800 a year, though. $800 isn't insane, but it would be to a composer that was just getting off the ground. Why would they want to inhibit growth and hurt small businesses? Kinda smells like donkey poo.
Old 2 days ago
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Cost of doing business, I guess. I have no idea what I pay in Utah. None of this sounds familiar... I think I paid my fees to incorporate, then I just pay my $50/yr for a business license and personal property taxes to the county. Definitely not $800 a year, though. $800 isn't insane, but it would be to a composer that was just getting off the ground. Why would they want to inhibit growth and hurt small businesses? Kinda smells like donkey poo.
I chose an LLC over a Single Proprietorship because I'm a homeowner and didn't want to the take the risk, even though my lawyer said it was like a .00001% that anyone would sue me. So, I just look at it like "insurance" or "protection". I also carry quite a bit of Umbrella Insurance as well because you never know what could happen in this litigious society, especially here in Hollywood/SoCal.

I have a Non-Composer friend who created an LLC a few years back that wasn't aware that a Statement of Information needed to be filed every other year after creation. Unfortunately, he ended up with more than $500 in fines the following year. The state of California reached directly into his bank account for the fees and penalties, which led to the bank charging him an additional $250 dollars because of the state's actions.

California doesn't seem to mess around when it comes to their tax collecting...
Old 2 days ago
  #86
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
I have a Non-Composer friend who created an LLC a few years back that wasn't aware that a Statement of Information needed to be filed every other year after creation. Unfortunately, he ended up with more than $500 in fines the following year. The state of California reached directly into his bank account for the fees and penalties, which led to the bank charging him an additional $250 dollars because of the state's actions.

California doesn't seem to mess around when it comes to their tax collecting...
Wow. That makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
Old 2 days ago
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Wow. That makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
Old 2 days ago
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
I will definitely keep you in mind... and I dislike LA more and more every day...
California is a huge state.

Do people in Cali like any other parts of the state besides LA, SF, and SD?
Old 2 days ago
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
In all seriousness, talk to an entertainment attorney AND entertainment accountant.
unfortunately, entertainment attorneys really don't know anything about this... you need to talk to a california labor attorney. Even your CPA or Tax Attorney isn't really going to know exactly what to do.
Old 1 day ago
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
California is a huge state.

Do people in Cali like any other parts of the state besides LA, SF, and SD?
well most people like most of the state. Most people also dislike LA and SF. SD it seems most people do like.

The thing with California... there is A LOT of open land here. Tons of desert. Tons of unincorporated and undeveloped land. There are also lots of small towns throughout the eastern side of the state (north and south).

The problem is, the policies the state government imposes effects the entire state. Like the $0.20 "ghost" tax (also referred to as a surcharge sometimes) that was added to gasoline starting back in 2013~2015 that nobody knows anything about. In California, it's a state law no tax can be applied without the vote of the people. But somehow a $0.20 to $0.40 extra tax was mysteriously added to every gallon of gas without anyone knowing about it. And this is on top of the regular city, county, state and federal gas taxes AND the additional taxes added from the california "Road Repair and Accountability Act of 2017 (also known as the "Gas Tax")". In California we are paying almost $2 extra per gallon of gasoline in taxes. It's why gas prices here are up around and over $4 per gallon, sometimes approaching $5/gallon. And this is statewide, not just in LA, SF and SD.

In regards to the ghost tax, one of the taxpayer's associations demanded CA Attorney General Xavier Becerra investigate that money and why it was added when there is no bill associated with it. He refused to look into it. Later the governor announced he was going to investigate why gas prices were so high, but blamed the gas companies of price gouging and never once mentioned the mystery "ghost" tax/surcharge.

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/04/1...ery-surcharge/

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...011-story.html


Welcome to California!
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