The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Discovery Networks Corners Composers in Music Royalties Battle
Old 16th December 2019
  #31
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
What can you do about this TODAY?

Message your PRO. Ask them if they're going to release a statement concerning this.
I'm not 100% certain, but I think American PRO's are prohibited from exerting influence.

If this becomes standard industry practice, it will be because publishers make it so.
Old 16th December 2019
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehrenebbage View Post
I'm not 100% certain, but I think American PRO's are prohibited from exerting influence.
Prohibited by what?
Old 16th December 2019
  #33
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Prohibited by what?
They are essentially a government-authorized monopoly. I think there are restrictions to prevent them from abusing their position in the marketplace.

I'm not sure if that applies to SESAC or any of the new startups, but I think ASCAP and BMI are subject to some strict regulations.
Old 16th December 2019
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehrenebbage View Post
They are essentially a government-authorized monopoly. I think there are restrictions to prevent them from abusing their position in the marketplace.

I'm not sure if that applies to SESAC or any of the new startups, but I think ASCAP and BMI are subject to some strict regulations.
Do you know this for sure? Is there anywhere we could find this information?
Old 16th December 2019
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Do you know this for sure? Is there anywhere we could find this information?
I'm checking with BMI. I'll report back.
Old 16th December 2019
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

I don't know. What does Disc plan on doing? Stop paying the license fees to the PROs? You would think that this has the PROs concerned as well, no?
Old 16th December 2019
  #37
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
I don't know. What does Disc plan on doing? Stop paying the license fees to the PROs? You would think that this has the PROs concerned as well, no?
It is absolutely of concern to them, but I think their mandate is limited to negotiating for and administering licenses under the consent decree, and lobbying the government on our behalf. I don't think they are supposed to get involved in B2B negotiations, which is essentially what is going on here.

They can be helpful in other ways but I don't think they can speak for us in the same way the SCL or PMA can.
Old 17th December 2019
  #38
Gear Maniac
 

Would this affect publishers as well, or only composers?
Old 17th December 2019
  #39
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by salbinti View Post
Would this affect publishers as well, or only composers?
It affects everyone whose business model depends on performance royalty income, including publishers.
Old 17th December 2019
  #40
I posted this in another thread but it may be better suited here:

What do composers here see as being a requirement / necessity in a composer contract for a library/publisher to be able to do direct license blanket deals and place a composer's music without writer royalty (PRO) compensation? "Power of attorney" clause; work for hire? If the music is non-exclusive or exclusive with a reversion clause, then a library wouldn't be able to place the music and cut-out the writer's PRO. Yes - no?
Old 17th December 2019
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Biondi View Post
I posted this in another thread but it may be better suited here:

What do composers here see as being a requirement / necessity in a composer contract for a library/publisher to be able to do direct license blanket deals and place a composer's music without writer royalty (PRO) compensation? "Power of attorney" clause; work for hire? If the music is non-exclusive or exclusive with a reversion clause, then a library wouldn't be able to place the music and cut-out the writer's PRO. Yes - no?
Most library/publisher contracts don't limit the types of licenses they are allowed to pursue. Essentially, you give them the right to license your music in whichever way they see fit. There are exceptions, but not common in the library world. The exclusivity clause isn't really relevant here.
Old 17th December 2019
  #42
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehrenebbage View Post
Most library/publisher contracts don't limit the types of licenses they are allowed to pursue. Essentially, you give them the right to license your music in whichever way they see fit. There are exceptions, but not common in the library world. The exclusivity clause isn't really relevant here.
Agreed. This is standard. Unless you have a clause in your contract that directly addresses how direct licenses will be handled (not in any contract I've signed), and how / if royalties will be paid on them (not in any contract I've signed)...well....you're SOL.
Old 17th December 2019
  #43
Gear Head
 
kclements's Avatar
 

Exactly - this is how the Scripps guys justified their business model. I was at aa panel a number of years ago and the Scripps Rep seemed very surprised that the libraries didn’t share a portion of the blanket fees Scripps was paying for DL. I say seemed because I am guessing he new damn well that most libraries they worked with didn’t share in the blanket fees. But - his point was it was on composers to negotiate better contracts to get a part of the blanket (not up to Scripps to change their business model and pay PROs), which he implied Scripps as paying heavily for.

One particulate library I was with wasn’t limited to what kind of license they could negotiate on our “behalf” (as stated, standard contracts with the libraries) and since this library didn’t pay anything on the blanket fee (saying of course, we get 100% of the writers backend), the composers got nothing. When I questioned this particular library about this, their statement back to me was that my tracks were also going in the general catalog - not specifically for Scripps, so I would have the opportunity to get other placements with the same tracks. I don’t write for that library any longer.
Old 19th December 2019
  #44
Gear Head
 
Ovee's Avatar
 

I just saw that Christian Henson recorded video about this topic. I'm already around 7 min., and thought to paste it here:

https://youtu.be/3Ko0coBB700
Old 19th December 2019
  #46
Lives for gear
 
jazz4's Avatar
 

Just to keep updates in the correct thread.

Discovery’s message to PMA:
https://pmamusic.com/portfolio-items...ing-practices/
Old 19th December 2019
  #47
Gear Head
 
kclements's Avatar
 

That’s a start.
Old 23rd December 2019
  #48
Old 23rd December 2019
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

It looks like Discovery are going to be moving toward music library sources in the future based on what the guy in the video is saying.
Old 24th December 2019
  #50
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Cook View Post
It looks like Discovery are going to be moving toward music library sources in the future based on what the guy in the video is saying.
Libraries also have to report to PROs. (well you didn't they wouldn't, just saying).
Old 26th December 2019
  #51
Gear Addict
 
musicalnyc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
I could not possibly disagree with the guy in this video more.

Do not take a break or a step back, ever, in the fight for compensation.

The other side isn't resting to reduce and ultimately eliminate these costs.

Fight hard, vocally, and unceasingly for the financial due of composers for their work.
Old 26th December 2019
  #52
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicalnyc View Post
I could not possibly disagree with the guy in this video more.

Do not take a break or a step back, ever, in the fight for compensation.

The other side isn't resting to reduce and ultimately eliminate these costs.

Fight hard, vocally, and unceasingly for the financial due of composers for their work.
Agreed. His take seems to be 'it wasn't really an issue after all because Discovery is going to pay performance royalties.' Actually, a ton of people mobilized behind the scenes very quickly and made a big public fuss, and Discovery backed off as a result. If we'd all just waited to see how things panned out they wouldn't have panned out in our favor. It's yet to be seen how things work out in the end, but this experience is proof that it's worth it to speak up.

Gotta be flexible and adapt with the industry, but also gotta speak up loudly when the value of your work is being driven into the dirt.
Old 10th January 2020
  #53
Updates regarding Discovery Networks:

Old 24th January 2020
  #54
Lives for gear
 
VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

From the PMA:

Dear Creative Community,

Some very good news. We have been informed today by Discovery Networks that in regard to performance rights, Discovery has decided that their US channels will remain operating as is under the traditional PRO performing rights model. The PMA would like to personally thank Shawn White and everyone at Discovery for this decision. We greatly appreciate this and look forward as a community to working together with Discovery to provide their programming with the best quality music possible.

If anyone has any questions, please email them to Morgan McKnight, Executive Director of the Production Music Association, who will collate them so we can get responses from Discovery and get back to you. Morgan's email is [email protected].

Thank you very much.
Old 24th January 2020
  #55
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Thanks Vita!!!!!!!!!!! Some much needed good news for a change. Whew!! Dodged that bullet....
Old 24th January 2020
  #56
Lives for gear
 
VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Thanks Vita!!!!!!!!!!! Some much needed good news for a change. Whew!! Dodged that bullet....
Now I guess they're pushing for SCRIPPS to follow... THAT would be monumental.
Old 24th January 2020
  #57
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Good news. Maybe this will encourage other networks to keep themselves in the game.
Old 25th January 2020
  #58
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

PMA:
We have been informed today by Discovery Networks that in regard to performance rights, Discovery has decided that their US channels will remain operating as is under the traditional PRO performing rights model.


terrible.dee:
...Well, Discovery Network....allow ME to inform YOU that effective immediately.......YOU CAN [email protected] ME!




Jeff:

Old 25th January 2020
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
From the PMA:

Dear Creative Community,

Some very good news. We have been informed today by Discovery Networks that in regard to performance rights, Discovery has decided that their US channels will remain operating as is under the traditional PRO performing rights model. The PMA would like to personally thank Shawn White and everyone at Discovery for this decision. We greatly appreciate this and look forward as a community to working together with Discovery to provide their programming with the best quality music possible.

If anyone has any questions, please email them to Morgan McKnight, Executive Director of the Production Music Association, who will collate them so we can get responses from Discovery and get back to you. Morgan's email is [email protected].

Thank you very much.
Just wanted to highlight something in the text from PMA...

Quote:
"Discovery has decided that their US channels will remain operating as is under the traditional PRO performing rights model."
did anyone else catch that??? Not worldwide... just their US broadcasts.
Old 25th January 2020
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
I told everyone 8 years ago THIS STEM THING IS B.S! They are amassing all the building blocks they need to REPLACE US and let the editor "construct" the cues himself. Out of the raw materials we gave them, Someone needs to have stem usage officially investigated, I am willing to bet they are Illegally splicing cues together already and collecting the backend themselves.
Terrible.Dee... Meet Source Audio watermarking technology... SA Detect, Meet Terrible.Dee

https://www.sourceaudio.com/detect/

https://www.sourceaudio.com/sourceaudio-detect-faqs/

We watermark all of the stems and mixes for several catalogs we release. We can track every use of every stem on almost every broadcast network in the US so long as clients use 1.5 seconds of it. It works really well.

if you are turning in stems directly to Discovery for their own internal catalog, then you should sign up and watermark the files yourself before delivering them.

From what I have seen, referencing the detected watermarks for stem tracks vs the PRO royalty statements... pretty much every network lists a stem use as a use of the main mix on cue sheets. the PROs pay the same regardless of whether it was a stem used or a main mix.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump