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Upfront Payments
Old 3rd October 2019
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Upfront Payments

Hi all,

I've been around this business for about a year and a half, so I'm still figuring out a lot of things.

So..

If a library just includes music into the catalog without any upfront fee I guess the tracks will just sit there until one of their clients finds it in the search (in most cases I guess). In the other hand, if the library actually pays in advance, they will put more efforts to license that music because they need to recover the investment. Are there more chances to get placements if you work with a library that pays upfront? what do you think about that?

thanks!
Old 4th October 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunoChulapi View Post
Hi all,

I've been around this business for about a year and a half, so I'm still figuring out a lot of things.

So..

If a library just includes music into the catalog without any upfront fee I guess the tracks will just sit there until one of their clients finds it in the search (in most cases I guess). In the other hand, if the library actually pays in advance, they will put more efforts to license that music because they need to recover the investment. Are there more chances to get placements if you work with a library that pays upfront? what do you think about that?

thanks!
In my experience yes. But it really depends.

To give you an example. I cleared £12k (3 albums) of advances in in 4 royalties payments over 2018 and 2019. Albums with nothing up front mostly just sitting there.
Old 4th October 2019
  #3
Gear Head
 

amber, the libs you're involved with pay big upfronts which makes sense for them to really push those . . .but what about libs that only pay 50-150/sng, you involved with any of those types? if so how do they do? (ive started with a few lately)
Old 4th October 2019
  #4
Here for the gear
 

I've worked with libraries within the $50 - 250 USD range btw. Still don't know if it's any better. Time (or this forum) will tell.
Old 4th October 2019
  #5
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Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boinkeee2000 View Post
amber, the libs you're involved with pay big upfronts which makes sense for them to really push those . . .but what about libs that only pay 50-150/sng, you involved with any of those types? if so how do they do? (ive started with a few lately)
Yep. Those are better imo from my experience with 400+ tracks out there.
Old 4th October 2019
  #6
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
Yep. Those are better imo from my experience with 400+ tracks out there.
good to know thanks, i can deal with signing over in perp, no sync, but with upfronts (of any amount) as long as its being actively pitched, even if not getting placed . . . just worried about the ones who'd think "I invested so little might as well let it sit and hope someone who needs it finds it"
Old 5th October 2019
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boinkeee2000 View Post
good to know thanks, i can deal with signing over in perp, no sync, but with upfronts (of any amount) as long as its being actively pitched, even if not getting placed . . . just worried about the ones who'd think "I invested so little might as well let it sit and hope someone who needs it finds it"
I don't think you'd be happy to sign over a track for $250 up front, no sync split, if you found out it had been licensed 100 times to corporates at $50 per license, with no back end ever, since they're corporate videos. In that example, $5,000 to the library, $250 to you, and that's it.

Of course with streaming growing, it won't just be corporate videos that don't pay any (or much) back end...

I've heard of things like this happening quite a few times.
Old 5th October 2019
  #8
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Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
I don't think you'd be happy to sign over a track for $250 up front, no sync split, if you found out it had been licensed 100 times to corporates at $50 per license, with no back end ever since it's a corporate video. In that example, $5,000 to the library, $250 to you, and that's it.

I've heard of things like this happening quite a few times.
Better than a no upfront library licensing your music for big TV show promos that you get nothing for because of 'blanket deals'. This has happened to me 3 times now.

Those libraries haven't got much to lose and just seem to give everything away.
Old 5th October 2019
  #9
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
I don't think you'd be happy to sign over a track for $250 up front, no sync split, if you found out it had been licensed 100 times to corporates at $50 per license, with no back end ever, since they're corporate videos. In that example, $5,000 to the library, $250 to you, and that's it.

Of course with streaming growing, it won't just be corporate videos that don't pay any (or much) back end...

I've heard of things like this happening quite a few times.
is that how it works? i may have wrongly assumed RF with upfronts are more focused with $50 corporate licenses (i.e. PB) & trad libs with upfront are more TV/film oriented and dont really bother with those microsyncs . . .
Old 5th October 2019
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Do trailer companies pay upfront, if so in what price range. I was asked today by q factory to send some more sound design tracks. Might not go any further though, have to wait and see.
Old 5th October 2019
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boinkeee2000 View Post
is that how it works? i may have wrongly assumed RF with upfronts are more focused with $50 corporate licenses (i.e. PB) & trad libs with upfront are more TV/film oriented and dont really bother with those microsyncs . . .
I think they'd be happy to make sync sales anywhere they can, whatever the library. But yes, the up front from PB deal looks terrible considering that if so much is for corporate vids then you would get no further cut of that sync income (if I'm understanding what kind of deal you're suggesting PB has).
Old 5th October 2019
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
Better than a no upfront library licensing your music for big TV show promos that you get nothing for because of 'blanket deals'. This has happened to me 3 times now.

Those libraries haven't got much to lose and just seem to give everything away.
I'll stick to taking a share of sync. Once everything is on streaming it'll be sync or drown. Ha, I had no idea what kind of weird pun that would turn out to be!
Old 5th October 2019
  #13
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jazz4's Avatar
 

Personally I haven’t really found it to be that clear cut - everyone has a different experience. However (some) of the libs that pay upfront definitely push them for good syncs.

For me the quality of licenses are all over the place for upfront tracks. However I do see more serious backend from them as they tend to get placed in nationwide commercials. The ones that don’t pay upfront get a lot of play but not in commercials or promos - however I do see a cut of the “mcps” here in UK from them.

To be honest, as much as I try to find a formula. I’m always proven wrong!

My management also says people have been saying tv is dead for the last 15 years and not to stress out too much as it really plays on my mind a lot — especially when I see the fractions of pennies I get from Netflix on my royalty statement...

Gonna be interesting to see where this goes and good luck to the people who are just getting into this business now. It’s good to build relationships with people in the industry who can take you with them when the climate changes.
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