The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Question about Danny Elfman and his composing, nd has anyone worked with or met him?
Old 4th September 2019
  #31
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
I also wanted an explanation when it says orchestrated by.. (not by composer) what does that mean. Composer wrote it, but only sketched the orchestration? Seen that with J. Williams amongst others too.
The composer will often write melodies and basic changes, then the orchestrator will assign parts to the ensemble, sometimes even write counter melodies, usually with directions of mood and dynamics from the composer.

A perfect example is "Pictures at an Exhibition." It is originally a piano solo, by Mussorgsky, but Ravel did an orchestration that is performed more often.
Old 4th September 2019
  #32
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Turner View Post
That bogus "rumor" is from ... like 1987.... or something. Long since quashed.
Not sure how this "make no sense?" Rumors start, truth comes out, rumors are then toast.

I recall hearing DIRECTLY from a major guy (TV composer), saying this very same thing--in public to several people at the same time--in the late 1980s. No doubt he was just repeating crap he heard (from who knows where.... other than people dismissing "rockers breaking into the biz"), and had no personal knowledge. That's how this garbage goes/went. Gossiping horse pucky dot com.
That's why I was asking in different ways..cos on this very thread and in PM's I was sent..the opposite was said. So..like 2 opposite things said. So in was like...are we all referring to the same thing?
Old 4th September 2019
  #33
Gear Head
 

Was told in PM by a few that he and Zimmer had an army of ghostwriters..I assume they mean the composing too not just orchestration? Then someone thought I meant the notation part I guess? So naturally I'd ask for clarification. And not really previously known how this stuff works.
So far the answers were that the sources were rumored in art college or thru someone who knew someone who worked for him.
Old 4th September 2019
  #34
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
As mentioned, film composing is a team sport. It takes a team to finish on time with the quality and quantity needed. Define that however you like. Creativity does lie in the hands of only ONE person when creating a soundtrack for a feature film. There are myriads of talented individuals involved in the making of the score of virtually any film.
Old 4th September 2019
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
A perfect example is "Pictures at an Exhibition." It is originally a piano solo, by Mussorgsky, but Ravel did an orchestration that is performed more often.
Ravel did that to his own songs too - the "Pavane pour un enfant defaunte" (sp?!) and I believe his Bolero both started as piano solos.
Old 4th September 2019
  #36
PS OP - please start the thread ONCE. You started this one about 5 times in different areas!
Old 4th September 2019
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpopbean View Post
Not obsessed. Lol!
Just it makes no sense. This apparently was/is a very high profile sort of rumor that he didnt write his own melodies (aside from the orchestration part) and yet he went on record various times saying he did everything except orchestrating it. So when just reading on background of certain themes, I'd seen so many commentaries saying how its bull**** what he had said. All public stuff. So..when I asked on here, I was trying to figure out why theres so much rumor to this and if perhaps people were confusing it all with some other thing.
Plus didnt understand a thing about scoring, etc. And was looking for a non PR standpoint and info.
Cos one can never know if these interviews are honest. Kinda upsetting if say he or any artist vehemently says one thing then supoosedly other accounts claim otherwise. so was trying to get info from those in the know. Ie u all.

And everything seemed to be either wiki or just hearsay stuff so had no idea what the source is and if actually that or based on popular belief.

I get very fascinated on topics anyway.
Not "infatuated" with him or whatever.
Just odd is all..he claims one thing and others claim different. So..what's the real version?
Plus some, in general, refer to the songwriting itself as orchestrating vs scoring and some say scoring means the actual sketching ..and others say scoring is the actual creation of the song itself. So it gets confusing and wondering if everyones on same page to what I was asking.
I have trouble putting my thoughts right and clear sometimes.
I think you're just listening to rumour from people who weren't there.
Old 4th September 2019
  #38
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
PS OP - please start the thread ONCE. You started this one about 5 times in different areas!
Wasn't sure what was the right forum to post such a thing to initially. Lol. Sorry.
Old 4th September 2019
  #39
Gear Head
 

Anyone know exactly how and where/who started that rumor in the first place? Jealous assholes or some tabloid, other article?
Old 4th September 2019
  #40
Gear Head
 

Film director is to Film, as Film Composer is to Score.

The composer determines the overall tone and vibe of the score as well as the broad strokes of the themes, melodies, etc.

Think of the composer as more of the record producer’s role in recording an album. You don’t call George Martin a fraud because he didn’t position every microphone and hit record on every take? He oversaw a team of engineers that he trusted and empowered to make creative decisions based on his, and the bands’, vision.

The composer oversees the whole musical team — and it takes a team! Composers are often the second to last step in the huge chain of work that makes up a film. They can’t really start until the picture is locked. So every production delay, reshoot, etc etc, dominoes down to compress the composer’s timeline. Because the delivery date is often set more or less in stone.

If they had to notate every cymbal crash and string articulation, there’s no way the score could happen. Even if they are telling their orchestrators, “write a cue for this similar to the first love scene but with woodwinds instead of strings and with a darker more angular feel...”, it’s still their vision and their score. It doesn’t make the work a fraud or less original...
Old 4th September 2019
  #41
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Ravel did that to his own songs too - the "Pavane pour un enfant defaunte" (sp?!) and I believe his Bolero both started as piano solos.
Indeed. One of the few thing I remember from music history (my teacher was awful) what that Ravel was called The Great Orchestrator."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albro Swift View Post
Film director is to Film, as Film Composer is to Score.

The composer determines the overall tone and vibe of the score as well as the broad strokes of the themes, melodies, etc.

Think of the composer as more of the record producer’s role in recording an album. You don’t call George Martin a fraud because he didn’t position every microphone and hit record on every take? He oversaw a team of engineers that he trusted and empowered to make creative decisions based on his, and the bands’, vision.

The composer oversees the whole musical team — and it takes a team! Composers are often the second to last step in the huge chain of work that makes up a film. They can’t really start until the picture is locked. So every production delay, reshoot, etc etc, dominoes down to compress the composer’s timeline. Because the delivery date is often set more or less in stone.

If they had to notate every cymbal crash and string articulation, there’s no way the score could happen. Even if they are telling their orchestrators, “write a cue for this similar to the first love scene but with woodwinds instead of strings and with a darker more angular feel...”, it’s still their vision and their score. It doesn’t make the work a fraud or less original...
Excellent post.
Old 4th September 2019
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
Progger's Avatar
I love any mention of Ravel in a thread about composers and composing, and if you listen to his orchestral works it becomes clear pretty quickly that he's been an enormous influence on modern film composers. Ravel was also a virtuoso pianist in his day, and he has that in common with John Williams! Both phenomenal pianists with a keen mind for expanding pianistic harmonic and melodic concepts to a full orchestra. Ravel's another very worthy hero, and I'll bet he at least had some help with copy work! (I can't imagine writing, by hand, parts for an entire orchestra. Ouch.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Indeed. One of the few thing I remember from music history (my teacher was awful) what that Ravel was called The Great Orchestrator."
Old 4th September 2019
  #43
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Progger View Post
I love any mention of Ravel in a thread about composers and composing, and if you listen to his orchestral works it becomes clear pretty quickly that he's been an enormous influence on modern film composers. Ravel was also a virtuoso pianist in his day, and he has that in common with John Williams! Both phenomenal pianists with a keen mind for expanding pianistic harmonic and melodic concepts to a full orchestra. Ravel's another very worthy hero, and I'll bet he at least had some help with copy work! (I can't imagine writing, by hand, parts for an entire orchestra. Ouch.)
One could argue that Bolero is the cornerstone of film composition. He was so good at creating a mood and mental images.

I hope he did have a copyist or three!
Old 5th September 2019
  #44
Lives for gear
 
jazz4's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
One could argue that Bolero is the cornerstone of film composition. He was so good at creating a mood and mental images.

I hope he did have a copyist or three!
Absolutely! One of my biggest influences.

Even today his music is so fresh and visual.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump