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Sync Music Probz
Old 16th July 2019
  #31
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncovered Pitch View Post
Yes they aren't cheap, especially something like Omnisphere. But you don't need to buy them all, just one or two out of VPS Avenger, Serum, Massive X, Rapid Parawave and all the others.

Monthly Composer Cloud is great but you'll need to bounce all the tracks down if you ever need to cancel your subscription. The sounds are superb it's just knowing what to do with them if you're not classically trained. Not impossible, but harder.

I liked your track by the way—yes the mastering was too heavy-handed but the musicality was good and your voice didn't sound half-bad either. In this genre everything needs to be super-polished though before it even gets to mastering so gear and experience count here as well.

Again I'm disagreeing with other posters here but I think it's better to go all-out now, say for three years and then think about a fallback. Risky, yes, but you're quite a long way behind as it is so if you try and catch up while building a "normal" career you may well be too old to make your mark in music by the time you've got that career established. Evenings and weekend pace just won't cut it because your competition doesn't work that way. The people who make the money you're after are nearly all fanatics who are less concerned with things like security, material comforts, a full stomach etc.

And yes you can learn how to mix, master, write lyrics, compose at school—both online and offline—and you should, especially as a late starter. But too many people make the mistake thinking that a degree will guarantee them a career in music—it won't and you still have to work "in the trenches", meaning writing and producing song after song, day after day, weekend after weekend.

Opinions, opinions...
23 never felt so old.. I appreciate it man! So in your opinion do you think the song is ready to be mastered is it still not good enough?
Old 16th July 2019
  #32
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDawg5 View Post
I agree with everyone saying "focus on the songs/music first". I had this big idea/dream that I was going to record everything, mix, master, and release and instrumental EP. The more I got into the process, the more I realized how much time I was putting into the production side of it instead of polishing up the songs to be their very best. Fast forward to today: I switched gears and booked time at a real studio this summer (still in the process of recording). Hired a session drummer, cellist, keys, and trumpet player, so I can just focus on guitars/bass. I'm letting a trained/experienced engineer handle the controls and will also do the same with mastering. Once it is completed, it may never make a penny for me, but at least I know I put in my best effort to create something. I also work a day job and would love to do music full time, but I know how hard that is. So for now, I'll just keep saving up and writing.
That's awesome good for you! Sounds very expensive, where do you get the cash lol
Old 16th July 2019
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicisfun View Post
23 never felt so old.. I appreciate it man! So in your opinion do you think the song is ready to be mastered is it still not good enough?
Yes but young enough to "waste" 2-3 years and only then work on plan B!

Your track is pretty good sonically but I would turn up the kick in the first half and also there is a lot of competition in the 100-300Hz are and not much below that so straightening out the bass end would be better done in the mix rather than in the mastering—especially if that's done by an algorithm rather than a trained mastering engineer.

Also the main hook is great but somehow I feel it could be placed better in the track—maybe just feature it more often? A co-writer and/or producer would be ideal to finesse the song structure and mix decisions—always good to collaborate and pool resources—both monetary/studio and networking.

Sorry but I don't have time to critique the song properly right now as I also need to think of my own clients and students—and the remix which I have cooking tonight!

You definitely have something though—whether that's enough for the top nobody can predict. Even if you looked like a cross between Lil Peep and Justin Bieber!
Old 16th July 2019
  #34
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicisfun View Post
Sure thing man:

https://soundcloud.com/bennyboyblue/backs/s-lK6H4

Would love any mixing/producing advice!

Listened....

Just some random thoughts.....

What's your goal? To be an artist or a composer? If composer, where's your dramatic / tension / emotional instrumental stuff? Got a link? As a show runner, director, music library, etc., for the most part I could care less about vocal songs unless I have a VERY specific need.

The link sounds like you want to be an artist, and I don't care how great or awesome it is, it's quite a different pathway to being a composer for media where vocal songs are the exception, not the rule....

The two art forms are RADICALLY different in terms of TV/Film needs, production techniques, and writing styles. You're going to place (all things being equal) 50X's more instrumental music to vocal pieces. By the simple fact that there's 50X's more underscore opportunities in TV/Film than there are montages with vocal pieces or source opportunities.

And really, it's not even 50X's, maybe more like 500X's, because your lyric / vocal style / musical style has to fit the picture, and the story line of the show / film - and that is really tough without having first hand knowledge of what the brief is.

If you want to write vocal stuff for picture, you need to learn the art of writing generic enough that that it will fit a variety of circumstances, and specific enough that it has a story line. Difficult. I've got lots of "songs" out there, and the placements are definitely more sparce than the thousands of instrumental underscore pieces that I have in play that literally get placed & played every day.

Unfortunately, songs are exponentially more difficult and time consuming, and the big dollar payout is no longer there. ASCAP doesn't pay out extra for vocal songs anymore, and the market is FLOODED with artists trying to swing for sync placements - as opposed to 10-15 years ago when you could still get a decent sync fee up front because the artists were still trying to be artists - not "composers" for film/tv.

So figure out what you want to do, and move ahead accordingly. Two different scenarios.
Old 16th July 2019
  #35
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Listened....

Just some random thoughts.....

What's your goal? To be an artist or a composer? If composer, where's your dramatic / tension / emotional instrumental stuff? Got a link? As a show runner, director, music library, etc., for the most part I could care less about vocal songs unless I have a VERY specific need.

The link sounds like you want to be an artist, and I don't care how great or awesome it is, it's quite a different pathway to being a composer for media where vocal songs are the exception, not the rule....

The two art forms are RADICALLY different in terms of TV/Film needs, production techniques, and writing styles. You're going to place (all things being equal) 50X's more instrumental music to vocal pieces. By the simple fact that there's 50X's more underscore opportunities in TV/Film than there are montages with vocal pieces or source opportunities.

And really, it's not even 50X's, maybe more like 500X's, because your lyric / vocal style / musical style has to fit the picture, and the story line of the show / film - and that is really tough without having first hand knowledge of what the brief is.

If you want to write vocal stuff for picture, you need to learn the art of writing generic enough that that it will fit a variety of circumstances, and specific enough that it has a story line. Difficult. I've got lots of "songs" out there, and the placements are definitely more sparce than the thousands of instrumental underscore pieces that I have in play that literally get placed & played every day.

Unfortunately, songs are exponentially more difficult and time consuming, and the big dollar payout is no longer there. ASCAP doesn't pay out extra for vocal songs anymore, and the market is FLOODED with artists trying to swing for sync placements - as opposed to 10-15 years ago when you could still get a decent sync fee up front because the artists were still trying to be artists - not "composers" for film/tv.

So figure out what you want to do, and move ahead accordingly. Two different scenarios.
The class I'm taking focuses on writing generic songs with vocals for sync. This was my attempt at a basic song lyrically. We learn themes and simple things. I'd think one song in a TV Ad with vocals would payout way more up front than one instrumental track would, that was why I aimed for vocals.

I guess to answer your question I wanted to do both - a song with vocals and lots of instrumentals as well. Maybe doing both could work? Who knows.
Old 16th July 2019
  #36
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncovered Pitch View Post
Yes but young enough to "waste" 2-3 years and only then work on plan B!

Your track is pretty good sonically but I would turn up the kick in the first half and also there is a lot of competition in the 100-300Hz are and not much below that so straightening out the bass end would be better done in the mix rather than in the mastering—especially if that's done by an algorithm rather than a trained mastering engineer.

Also the main hook is great but somehow I feel it could be placed better in the track—maybe just feature it more often? A co-writer and/or producer would be ideal to finesse the song structure and mix decisions—always good to collaborate and pool resources—both monetary/studio and networking.

Sorry but I don't have time to critique the song properly right now as I also need to think of my own clients and students—and the remix which I have cooking tonight!

You definitely have something though—whether that's enough for the top nobody can predict. Even if you looked like a cross between Lil Peep and Justin Bieber!
I appreciate any feedback, thank you for your time. I will take a look at what you suggested and make improvements. Less muddy bass, less cluster**** around 100-300HZ
Old 16th July 2019
  #37
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicisfun View Post
The class I'm taking focuses on writing generic songs with vocals for sync. This was my attempt at a basic song lyrically. We learn themes and simple things. I'd think one song in a TV Ad with vocals would payout way more up front than one instrumental track would, that was why I aimed for vocals.

I guess to answer your question I wanted to do both - a song with vocals and lots of instrumentals as well. Maybe doing both could work? Who knows.
I'm not sure what to say...

Other than to say that I'm sorry you fell victim to one of the predatory "schools" / teachers who preys on people who want in to the industry and feeds them what they want to hear. And there are many out there.... Their advice might have even been good 5-10 years ago, but this biz is changing so fast that even industry vets have a hard time keeping up.

A good understanding of the BUSINESS is just as important - maybe more important - than the music you write. Maybe you should be focusing on that end.

It will help you decide if this biz is for you, and if so, what direction to take. Focusing on mastering / mixing and even writing when you don't even understand how things work is putting the cart before the horse as they say.
Old 16th July 2019
  #38
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I'm not sure what to say...

Other than to say that I'm sorry you fell victim to one of the predatory "schools" / teachers who preys on people who want in to the industry and feeds them what they want to hear. And there are many out there.... Their advice might have even been good 5-10 years ago, but this biz is changing so fast that even industry vets have a hard time keeping up.

A good understanding of the BUSINESS is just as important - maybe more important - than the music you write. Maybe you should be focusing on that end.

It will help you decide if this biz is for you, and if so, what direction to take. Focusing on mastering / mixing and even writing when you don't even understand how things work is putting the cart before the horse as they say.
Honest advice. Thank you for responding.
Old 16th July 2019
  #39
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicisfun View Post
I am at my miserable desk day job and get impatient trying to work on music after working all day just to be rejected and end up back at this desk. (...) A poor guy like me gotta take money into account as much as Id love to focus on just making good tunes. Pce bro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncovered Pitch View Post
Again I'm disagreeing with other posters here but I think it's better to go all-out now, say for three years and then think about a fallback. Risky, yes, but you're quite a long way behind as it is so if you try and catch up while building a "normal" career you may well be too old to make your mark in music by the time you've got that career established. Evenings and weekend pace just won't cut it because your competition doesn't work that way. The people who make the money you're after are nearly all fanatics who are less concerned with things like security, material comforts, a full stomach etc.
Dropping out a steady job to pursue a music career full time without any guaranteed income in the beginning is quite risky if one is not very confident in his technical abilities. Given that "Music is fun" seems aware that he still needs to hone his skills to achieve his goal, (I havn't listened to his song, no artistic judgement here, I'm just reading his messages) I'd rather suggest him:

a) to impose himself on a strict discipline for a year, in order to produce & study music at least 2 hours per day after work and 10 hours during the week-end (so ~20 hours a week, ~1000 hours a year).

b) or or to pursue a career in a high-demand industry, such as computer programming, that may offer him the chance to quickly earn a good amount of money while working freelance or half-time. This way, he could clear a lot of time to produce music. Of course, this strategy is not a shortcut nor a certainty, but it may pay-off in the end.

Some of you are talking about age (" too old to make your mark in music by the time you've got that career established"). If "Music is fun" wants to be the next global popstar, then yes, he'd be better hurry up^^! But if he wants to become a media composer, then age doesn't matter at all. Same remark for being an artist. Andrea Bocelli was 34 when he released his debut album. Leonard Cohen did it at 33, and there are many more exemples. No one ever said "I'll never listen to this dude's music because he's forty-something".

If music is your dream, then you should give everything you've got into it, even if it means no fun, sweat and hardcore discipline for a while. But dropping everything for three years without a great mastery of your craft is certainly bold. Living the poor way and make it big after two years of pain & struggle don't necessarily happen. Unfortunately, everybody can't be Mötley Crüe or Gun & Roses haha. Of course, I'm only writing a personal suggestion, you're still young and if you want to go full time, just do it .
Old 16th July 2019
  #40
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donedeal0 View Post
Dropping out a steady job to pursue a music career full time without any guaranteed income in the beginning is quite risky if one is not very confident in his technical abilities. Given that "Music is fun" seems aware that he still needs to hone his skills to achieve his goal, (I havn't listened to his song, no artistic judgement here, I'm just reading his messages) I'd rather suggest him:

a) to impose himself on a strict discipline for a year, in order to produce & study music at least 2 hours per day after work and 10 hours during the week-end (so ~20 hours a week, ~1000 hours a year).

b) or or to pursue a career in a high-demand industry, such as computer programming, that may offer him the chance to quickly earn a good amount of money while working freelance or half-time. This way, he could clear a lot of time to produce music. Of course, this strategy is not a shortcut nor a certainty, but it may pay-off in the end.

Some of you are talking about age (" too old to make your mark in music by the time you've got that career established"). If "Music is fun" wants to be the next global popstar, then yes, he'd be better hurry up^^! But if he wants to become a media composer, then age doesn't matter at all. Same remark for being an artist. Andrea Bocelli was 34 when he released his debut album. Leonard Cohen did it at 33, and there are many more exemples. No one ever said "I'll never listen to this dude's music because he's forty-something".

If music is your dream, then you should give everything you've got into it, even if it means no fun, sweat and hardcore discipline for a while. But dropping everything for three years without a great mastery of your craft is certainly bold. Living the poor way and make it big after two years of pain & struggle don't necessarily happen. Unfortunately, everybody can't be Mötley Crüe or Gun & Roses haha. Of course, I'm only writing a personal suggestion, you're still young and if you want to go full time, just do it .
I like both options. Maybe try B while taking some classes on the side. Music will always be a great emotional release but all the other stuff and competitive-ness really sort of damper it. Thank you for the advice friend
Old 17th July 2019
  #41
Gear Head
 

I've been making instrumental cues now for 3.5yrs in my spare time, let's just say most of the time my friends spend vegging out in front of the TV I spend in my studio and just got my first PRO payout.

It only amounts to about one day's pay from my regular job, but I'm really stoked about it. Its difficult to imagine it being more than a secondary income from my hobby but I do it because I enjoy it, the challenge keeps my mind active, I've opened my mind to new music which I never would have heard otherwise and some of it is really awesome.

Like you I don't have any formal education or in depth knowledge of music theory and although I do have basic guitar and keyboard skills I am entirely self taught and play things more by ear. I don't read music so it's not a prerquisite to getting into the game.

My music and production has gradually improved over the past few years, no big expensive courses...a lot of Youtube education and just constantly making tracks sharpens the skillset.

I'm up to about 15 placements now mostly on MTV reality shows and Crucial just licensed one of my EDM tracks for a scripted teen drama this month for $600 of which I'll get 50% which kind of amazes me...never thought anyone would pay that much for something I wrote.

I like your track, you definitely got something going on there so I wouldn't give up. There are lots of people making great music in new ways without the skillset of a traditional composer, computer based music has seem to that.
Old 17th July 2019
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicdolphin View Post
I'm up to about 15 placements now mostly on MTV reality shows and Crucial just licensed one of my EDM tracks for a scripted teen drama this month for $600 of which I'll get 50% which kind of amazes me...never thought anyone would pay that much for something I wrote.
That's very impressive indeed and not the norm at all in my experience. The reason I said what I said was not to lure the OP on a reckless path burning all his bridges. But I have seen too many people getting well-paid jobs in the finance or computer industries and then not having the hunger and desire to make it as a musician.

People get used to a certain income and lifestyle and then having to scrap for $500 music jobs doesn't seem so attractive anymore and music becomes a "mere" hobby for the rest of their lives.

Most musicians and artists started their careers being hungry(often quite literally) and I'm sometimes wondering whether that has had a positive influence on their art.

But we all seem to agree that an "every spare minute of every day", super-productive, super-disciplined approach is needed. And then soon enough it will become obvious whether music is the right—and indeed the only, as it was with me—career path.
Old 17th July 2019
  #43
Gear Head
 

as opposed to 10-15 years ago when you could still get a decent sync fee up front because the artists were still trying to be artists - not "composers" for film/tv.

^^

disagree - the TV/Film industry is very small in the grand scheme of the music biz. No one I talk to in the commercial music biz here in LA knows or cares much more than an "oh, cool"

As long as make quality music make quality money stands, the industry is in a good place
Old 17th July 2019
  #44
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncovered Pitch View Post
That's very impressive indeed and not the norm at all in my experience.
I can't count on both hands the amount of 6-figure composers I know just from production music. That's my norm.
Old 17th July 2019
  #45
Gear Addict
 

This is a job in which you learn all your life, so to say, as Dr. Bill pointed out. There is always something new you have to master, be it a new hot music style, an instrument, new revolutionary software...but, IMHO, there are a couple of rules and absolute must do's if you want to work in music business as a composer:

1. listen to a lot of different music. And I mean A LOT, production music, rock, punk, classic... everything. But not just listen, try to analyze composition, patterns, tricks used by masters of the genre(s). It's very satisfying, you're not only enjoying music but also learning while listening.

2. when working on your track, concentrate on composition and sounds you're using. No mixing trick or expensive mastering hardware will turn small and mushy sounding drums into AC/DC's drums, for example...you absolutely need to have good sounding drum plugin or record in good studio with good players and good equipment, if you choose live drums, ofc. Apply this to all other instruments and sounds you are using in your composition, sounds have to be good to make your life easier when you come to step

3. ,mixing. If you use good sounds mixing should be a breeze. If it's not, go back to steps one and two and listen to everything, from composition to sounds used. Use automation, that's a very nice and fast way to make a point in track, without using too much eq or compression. Ppl tend to get lazy and just slap plugins, less is always more if you follow the steps 1 and 2.

Didn't mean to sound patronising in any way, just wanted to share a couple of rules that made my life easier... again, no mastering hardware will turn lousy track (or mix) into a masterpiece or substitute for years and decades of listening and making music. However, if you're dead set on becoming a mastering engineer, good luck! Just keep in mind that a lot of production music companies use their own mastering anyway and that mastering is expensive craft that again takes years to master, so think about your priorities and wishes before you make a decision.
Old 17th July 2019
  #46
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
as opposed to 10-15 years ago when you could still get a decent sync fee up front because the artists were still trying to be artists - not "composers" for film/tv.

^^

disagree - the TV/Film industry is very small in the grand scheme of the music biz. No one I talk to in the commercial music biz here in LA knows or cares much more than an "oh, cool"

As long as make quality music make quality money stands, the industry is in a good place

Are you sure? I didn't think you were around back then.... Are you still getting $10-20k syncs then even with the exponentially larger song / artist pool? Cause that's what you used to be able to get. No one but well known name artists with recognizable songs is getting that anymore - unless you are.... Please enlighten.

Last edited by drBill; 17th July 2019 at 04:34 PM..
Old 17th July 2019
  #47
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
as opposed to 10-15 years ago when you could still get a decent sync fee up front because the artists were still trying to be artists - not "composers" for film/tv.

^^

disagree - the TV/Film industry is very small in the grand scheme of the music biz. No one I talk to in the commercial music biz here in LA knows or cares much more than an "oh, cool"

As long as make quality music make quality money stands, the industry is in a good place

Are you sure? I didn't think you were around back then.... Are you still getting $10-20k syncs then even with the exponentially larger song / artist pool? Cause that's what you used to be able to get. No one but well known name artists with recognizable songs is getting that anymore - unless you are.... Please enlighten.
Richyrich is trolling. You caught him out with the syncs and not being around back then. But of course it will never be admitted. Anyway, I just came to respectfully suggest you don't waste your time getting into it with him.
Old 17th July 2019
  #48
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicisfun View Post
I like both options. Maybe try B while taking some classes on the side. Music will always be a great emotional release but all the other stuff and competitive-ness really sort of damper it. Thank you for the advice friend
Your singing was pretty good by the way. I won't add anything else as you've had so much good advice that I'm not sure if there's anything useful for me to contribute.
Old 17th July 2019
  #49
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Are you sure? I didn't think you were around back then.... Are you still getting $10-20k syncs then even with the exponentially larger song / artist pool? Cause that's what you used to be able to get. No one but well known name artists with recognizable songs is getting that anymore - unless you are.... Please enlighten.
Was not around but I know that if you got the goods you can make a great living.

Ohwell, who are you again?
Old 17th July 2019
  #50
Mrx
Gear Addict
 

6 figures: £0.00001
Old 17th July 2019
  #51
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
Was not around but I know that if you got the goods you can make a great living.
That wasn't my point. Maybe re-read what you quoted in context. Until then, enjoy your 6 figure income with your 70 other writers!!
Old 17th July 2019
  #52
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
Richyrich is trolling. You caught him out with the syncs and not being around back then. But of course it will never be admitted. Anyway, I just came to respectfully suggest you don't waste your time getting into it with him.
Haha!! You're right of course.
Old 17th July 2019
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Are you sure? I didn't think you were around back then.... Are you still getting $10-20k syncs then even with the exponentially larger song / artist pool? Cause that's what you used to be able to get. No one but well known name artists with recognizable songs is getting that anymore - unless you are.... Please enlighten.
Sorry, not to derail... but I see $20k to $40K syncs frequently. Some as high as $60k~$70k. Even for certain big promo campaigns on the networks I've see $7,500 to $14,000 sync fee. I got an $8000 license for a promo campaign from one of the cable "movie" networks. Even talking to reality TV production companies who flat out told me they will never pay a dime up front for music eventually confided in me that they'll get a $10,000 to $15,000 music budget for a "big" episode, either a season premiere or a season finale.

Granted I see a lot of $50 and $100 sync fees too. But the big ones are still there and they aren't going away. I had an argument with someone a couple years ago about this very subject and they said to me "I wish I saw $10,000 sync fee briefs coming through my inbox but they just don't exist anymore. That time is over. Clients don't have the money anymore." And then we had a "hold my beer" moment when we brought in a $20,000 and a $15,000 license a couple months later and a little while after that brought in a $30,000 license. And since then we've gotten licenses well above the norm across the board.

You can't look in a tide pool at minnows and expect to find a bluefin tuna or sword fish. If you are looking at where all the $50 licenses happen, how can you expect to see a $30,000 license in there? You can't, it never will be.

Anyway... just thought I'd throw that out there. Regardless of whether youngrichyrich has seen them or not. I see them. And I win them (not always, but sometimes).
Old 17th July 2019
  #54
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Sorry, not to derail... but I see $20k to $40K syncs frequently. Some as high as $60k~$70k. Even for certain big promo campaigns on the networks I've see $7,500 to $14,000 sync fee. I got an $8000 license for a promo campaign from one of the cable "movie" networks. Even talking to reality TV production companies who flat out told me they will never pay a dime up front for music eventually confided in me that they'll get a $10,000 to $15,000 music budget for a "big" episode, either a season premiere or a season finale.

Granted I see a lot of $50 and $100 sync fees too. But the big ones are still there and they aren't going away. I had an argument with someone a couple years ago about this very subject and they said to me "I wish I saw $10,000 sync fee briefs coming through my inbox but they just don't exist anymore. That time is over. Clients don't have the money anymore." And then we had a "hold my beer" moment when we brought in a $20,000 and a $15,000 license a couple months later and a little while after that brought in a $30,000 license. And since then we've gotten licenses well above the norm across the board.

You can't look in a tide pool at minnows and expect to find a bluefin tuna or sword fish. If you are looking at where all the $50 licenses happen, how can you expect to see a $30,000 license in there? You can't, it never will be.

Anyway... just thought I'd throw that out there. Regardless of whether youngrichyrich has seen them or not. I see them. And I win them (not always, but sometimes).
Good for you Derek!!!

I'm not saying it never happens, obviously it does, but I don't think it's the industry standard rule of thumb anymore. I'd be willing to bet you that you license 100X's + the number of songs for under $500 than you do for over $25k.

But yeah, that kind of sync used to be the standard and I would see it happen all the time when I was also doing music editing for films that I was on. I was privy to see what the syncs were - and they were GOOD! But over the years I saw the decline start, and continue. The standard $20k+ license dropped to $10k. Then to $5k, then down under $1k. And this was all for a VERY large network with big ears. But now I think those big sync's are more the exception to the rule -- but who knows, maybe I'm just in the wrong end of the pool. I'm certainly not in the advertising game. If you could get some of those with my tunes, I'd be super happy!!!! You are obviously doing something RIGHT! Cause from my perspective it's not that common anymore for most of the industry.

Last edited by drBill; 17th July 2019 at 07:28 PM..
Old 17th July 2019
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Good for you Derek!!!

I'm not saying it never happens, obviously it does, but I don't think it's the industry standard rule of thumb anymore. I'd be willing to bet you that you license 100X's + the number of songs for under $500 than you do for over $25k.
Oh, absolutely. And because I go after all types of uses, that automatically excludes me from even being considered from some of the big ones as well. So if I didn't go after the small and the big, I would be getting more big ones.

quote]But yeah, that kind of sync used to be the standard and I would see it happen all the time when I was also doing music editing for films that I was on. I was privy to see what the syncs were - and they were GOOD! But over the years I saw the decline start, and continue. The standard $20k+ license dropped to $10k. Then to $5k, then down under $1k. And this was all for a VERY large network with big ears. But now I think those big sync's are more the exception to the rule -- but who knows, maybe I'm just in the wrong end of the pool. I'm certainly not in the advertising game. If you could get some of those with my tunes, I'd be super happy!!!! You are obviously doing something RIGHT! Cause from my perspective it's not that common anymore for most of the industry.[/QUOTE]

There are a lot of facets to it. there are certain things each type of use looks for in the music. If it's not there, they aren't going to consider you. And if they consider you once and spend time looking at your music and it isn't hitting the mark... then you get removed from "that" list and so you'll never see another brief like it.

Also music supervisors will send out the same brief with different dollar amounts on it to different groups. So they will have a "low budget" group, a "medium budget" group, and a "high budget" group and they write the exact same cattle call brief for all of them, but they swap out the dollar amount for the license. I've seen a brief come in saying they only had $750 for the license, and the same brief come in to a second email address for a "high budget" catalog but the dollar value was $6000. Literally word for word the EXACT same brief, only difference was the dollar value.

So if you become known for "less expensive" music the briefs you get are going to mention a much lower license fee even if they have a lot more money set aside for the license.

Think of it this way... If you are looking to help your friend purchase a new car with a specific purpose in mind... Maybe your friend needs a new daily driving car. And your friend has $50,000 to spend on a new car. Are you going to walk into a Kia dealership and say "i need a new daily driving car, I have $50k to spend. What do you have?" No... you are going to look at what Kia normally sells their sedans for ($15k to $20K) and then say "I have $12,000. What do you have?"

Yes Kia has a $60,000 sedan (the K900)... but would you want to spend $60k on a Kia when you could spend $60k on a a BMW 5 series or an E-class Mercedes?

And then when you walk into the BMW dealership you aren't going to say you have "$12,000"... you are more likely to say you have $40k or $45K and see what the person says..
Old 17th July 2019
  #56
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
That wasn't my point. Maybe re-read what you quoted in context. Until then, enjoy your 6 figure income with your 70 other writers!!
Mid-6 figures** pls get it right - trust me, I'm at Sugarfish in WeHo right now enjoying it very much hahaha
Old 17th July 2019
  #57
Gear Head
 

I'm blushing - guys, stop flattering me and derailing the thread
Old 17th July 2019
  #58
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
Mid-6 figures** pls get it right - trust me, I'm at Sugarfish in WeHo right now enjoying it very much hahaha
So sorry....

$500,000 divided by your 70 writers = $7,142.86 per writer, per year - average!! Smoking!!

Enjoy Lunch!!
Old 17th July 2019
  #59
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
So sorry....

$500,000 divided by your 70 writers = $7,142.86 per writer, per year - average!! Smoking!!

Enjoy Lunch!!
Remember the trolls enjoy this.. From their failure at x/y/z they are left with only the enjoyment of upsetting others.

I've found the easiest thing to do is simply to block them. Their posts don't appear then. So I'm not entirely sure what he/she is saying, but I'm pretty sure it's not worth our time.

We know instinctively who the people here are that have something interesting to say, and whose participation is helpful. When someone really makes a good living they don't brag about it, for many reasons. That in itself is always an immediate giveaway.
Old 17th July 2019
  #60
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
Remember the trolls enjoy this.. From their failure at x/y/z they are left with only the enjoyment of upsetting others.

I've found the easiest thing to do is simply to block them. Their posts don't appear then. So I'm not entirely sure what he/she is saying, but I'm pretty sure it's not worth our time.

We know instinctively who the people here are that have something interesting to say, and whose participation is helpful. When someone really makes a good living they don't brag about it, for many reasons. That in itself is always an immediate giveaway.
<delete>

OK....Even though I'm not upset, I'll stop now.
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