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Pond5 Sales Decreasing
Old 8th July 2019
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Pond5 Sales Decreasing

Hi there,

not long ago Pond5 was one of the platforms where I made the most money, but sales decreased quite tremendously within the last months...and I mean not a light drop, but like 50% less in sales - which is real bitter.

Am I the only one? And last but not least, might this happen because of my Adrev affiliation?
I wonder especially as if I sell after all, I mostly sell jingles (so tracks under 30 seconds - which don't get spotted by Adrev), but almost never any full tracks anymore.

PS: Did maybe even the whole market change to the worse as of one new library undercutting the market (I've heard of subscription models, which are newly-introduced, for instance at soundscape music)? I mean this might sound crazy, but in this fast-paced world and times you basically never know....

Please feel free to share your experience.

Rock On!
-Freshd.
Old 8th July 2019
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

...further more I got several emails of pond5 asking for clarification, linked to PRO-affiliated tracks (I think ever user got those).

Just wondering, does your Pond5 portfolio has to be 100% not registered at PROs?

Of course I know it says "royalty-free", but as we all know this term has two meanings. So Pond5 is clearly royalty-free in the sense of unlimited licenses, but what about the PRO royalty free aspect? I'm especially confused as they actually ask for your PRO within the track details, which always looked to me that PRO registered material is totally legit, or am I on the wrong path here?

Cheers!
-Freshd.
Old 9th July 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by freshdax View Post
might this happen because of my Adrev affiliation?
Why should your Adrev affiliation affect your sales?

Bottom line is this: if your P5 income is decreasing, find a new source(s) of income.

Cheers.
Old 9th July 2019
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
Not greatly au fait with P5 to be honest but aren't you competing with millions of other tracks and millions of other composers on a site where there is no barrier to submission or vetting process with a not very good search facility with the really crap stuff mixed in with the not so crap stuff on a site where there is no marketing to promote the music or composers and the massive virtual track dumpster truck is having thousands of tracks added daily as it grows into an enormous Black Hole of bad music nothingness and eventually eats the universe itself...

...? Kinda thing?
ha ha very well put
Old 9th July 2019
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannymc View Post
ha ha very well put

+2

But seriously, it worked so well for a long time although...

@ jeff

Well, since a few months youtube videos with adrev music (or other PROs/fingerprinted content) get sorta marked. So you can identify the music if you check on the details of the youtube video. Before this wasn't possible, and only the uploader could see that his video will also be third-party exploited (at least if the music wasn't licensed properly).

So hypothetically I imagine I'm a potential client who wants to buy a sync of one piano track, check out the usage example (which I often include in the video description), and then see the track is actually adrev affiliated, and step back from buying a license, as I'm afraid of potential copyright strikes?!

I actually earn maybe like 90-120 USD a month with Adrev, so it really isn't worth it. Actually I'm using it mostly (just as many of you too) for getting to know where my music is getting used - so basically just my personal curiosity and interest - and it is still used a whole lot on youtube...but right now I'm sort of afraid that the now shown details actually might have leaded to a decrease in sales...

Best,
-Freshd
Old 9th July 2019
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshdax View Post
+2

But seriously, it worked so well for a long time although...

@ jeff

Well, since a few months youtube videos with adrev music (or other PROs/fingerprinted content) get sorta marked. So you can identify the music if you check on the details of the youtube video. Before this wasn't possible, and only the uploader could see that his video will also be third-party exploited (at least if the music wasn't licensed properly).

So hypothetically I imagine I'm a potential client who wants to buy a sync of one piano track, check out the usage example (which I often include in the video description), and then see the track is actually adrev affiliated, and step back from buying a license, as I'm afraid of potential copyright strikes?!

I actually earn maybe like 90-120 USD a month with Adrev, so it really isn't worth it. Actually I'm using it mostly (just as many of you too) for getting to know where my music is getting used - so basically just my personal curiosity and interest - and it is still used a whole lot on youtube...but right now I'm sort of afraid that the now shown details actually might have leaded to a decrease in sales...

Best,
-Freshd
Ad Rev isn't THE reason videos are flagged for copyright strikes. The reason is because the music is uploaded into google Content ID system.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797370?hl=en

music in the content ID system isn't automatically blocked when uploaded. Ad Rev chooses to Monetize the videos with Content that has been uploaded by Ad Rev. So you should never see an ad rev piece of music causing a video to get blocked.

They are usually always set to "Monetize" unless the content creator (i.e. you) notices a video showing up in Google Content ID using your music that you did not give a license to. THEN you can ask ad rev to submit a claim and the video will be blocked temporarily until the video creator pays the license.

So it shouldn't deter people from licensing music... although Pond5 users are not the most well-versed when it comes to how this whole thing works... so it could very well be scaring them away simply because they don't know enough to know it is no big deal.

To be honest, every track up on pond5 should be Ad Rev enabled. It's stupid not to. The video creator does not pay the money to Ad Rev... Google does through charging money to air the ads in the first place.

Last edited by Etch-A-Sketch; 14th July 2019 at 02:21 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Ad Rev isn't THE reason videos are flagged for copyright strikes. The reason is because the music is uploaded into google Content ID system.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797370?hl=en

music in the content ID system isn't automatically blocked when uploaded. Ad Rev chooses to Monetize the videos with Content that has been uploaded by Ad Rev. So you should never see an ad rev piece of music causing a video to get blocked.

They are usually always set to "Monetize" unless the content creator (i.e. you) notices a video showing up in Google Content ID using your music that you did not give a license to. THEN you can ask ad rev to submit a claim and the video will be blocked temporarily until the video creator pays the license.

So it shouldn't deter people from licensing music... although Pond5 users are not the most well-versed when it comes to how this whole thing works... so it could very well be scaring them away simply because they don't know enough to know it is no big deal.

To be honest, every track up on pond5 should be Ad Rev enabled. It's stupid not to. The video creator does not pay the money to Ad Rev... Google does through charging money to air the ads in the first place.
Hey Derek,

long time no see! Your wisdom is once again highly appreciated.

I still wonder if it would be a good idea to mention in my pond5's profile that the tracks are adrev-registered, or would that be totally stupid? Just seen other composers (actually quite prolific/popular ones) doing exactly that.

Another question, aiming at pond5:

I saw a live orchestral music track of mine to appear on dutch TV, and I am almost dead sure they bought the license at pond5. Tunesat provides that it was aired around 100 times!

Well, I wrote the TV station to get at least to known if they actually even bought a sync license, and if they filled a cue sheet properly. No reaction whatsoever. Not that I wouldn't have seen it coming, but I wonder what to do now - possibly writing them by postal mail? And is Pond5 actually royalty free after all? I mean it certainly is in the definition of providing unlimited license usage for the once who bought a proper license, but is it actually too in the second definition of no further royalties getting payed to the authors?

PS: I think everyone of us pond5 authors just recently got a strange mail, with a poll asking for the music's status - resp. if it is registered with a PRO or not etc., while the system actually asks everyone to fill in a PRO before (same as it asks for the composer, arrangers etc.)...and in my experience all music libraries which ask for the PRO are actually collecting royalties, respectively are non-royalty free, at least as far as I am concerned.
So that whole poll seems a bit weird to be quite frank (did anyone else not reply? ).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Ad Rev isn't THE reason videos are flagged for copyright strikes. The reason is because the music is uploaded into google Content ID system.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797370?hl=en

music in the content ID system isn't automatically blocked when uploaded. Ad Rev chooses to Monetize the videos with Content that has been uploaded by Ad Rev. So you should never see an ad rev piece of music causing a video to get blocked.

They are usually always set to "Monetize" unless the content creator (i.e. you) notices a video showing up in Google Content ID using your music that you did not give a license to. THEN you can ask ad rev to submit a claim and the video will be blocked temporarily until the video creator pays the license.

So it shouldn't deter people from licensing music... although Pond5 users are not the most well-versed when it comes to how this whole thing works... so it could very well be scaring them away simply because they don't know enough to know it is no big deal.

To be honest, every track up on pond5 should be Ad Rev enabled. It's stupid not to. The video creator does not pay the money to Ad Rev... Google does through charging money to air the ads in the first place.
....yes but isnt the whole point that when Adrev monetizes either on lincensed (synced) videos or on unlicensed vids that are playing your music, it comess off the chunk of monetization that the Video creator is getting?

In other words, if as a legitimate content creator I plan to monetize off my YT video, when I buy a sync on Pond5 say, I don´t necessarily want to buy an Adrev enabled music because then the composer would be getting a piece off of my YT monetisation scheme, is this logic correct?? And if correct, is there a way to get the composer to "switch off" Adrev monetisation for my licensed sync? Is this the Whitelisting that would have to be activated in Adrev?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by freshdax View Post
Hey Derek,

long time no see! Your wisdom is once again highly appreciated.

I still wonder if it would be a good idea to mention in my pond5's profile that the tracks are adrev-registered, or would that be totally stupid? Just seen other composers (actually quite prolific/popular ones) doing exactly that.

Another question, aiming at pond5:

I saw a live orchestral music track of mine to appear on dutch TV, and I am almost dead sure they bought the license at pond5. Tunesat provides that it was aired around 100 times!

Well, I wrote the TV station to get at least to known if they actually even bought a sync license, and if they filled a cue sheet properly. No reaction whatsoever. Not that I wouldn't have seen it coming, but I wonder what to do now - possibly writing them by postal mail? And is Pond5 actually royalty free after all? I mean it certainly is in the definition of providing unlimited license usage for the once who bought a proper license, but is it actually too in the second definition of no further royalties getting payed to the authors?

PS: I think everyone of us pond5 authors just recently got a strange mail, with a poll asking for the music's status - resp. if it is registered with a PRO or not etc., while the system actually asks everyone to fill in a PRO before (same as it asks for the composer, arrangers etc.)...and in my experience all music libraries which ask for the PRO are actually collecting royalties, respectively are non-royalty free, at least as far as I am concerned.
So that whole poll seems a bit weird to be quite frank (did anyone else not reply? ).
Hi!

I am no expert but theoretically should´nt it be something like this: Dutch TV airs the Production that has your music. The Production presumably bought the unlimited sync on Pond5 and then the TV should fill in a Cue Sheet, so through your PRO you should be getting the broadcast royalties.
BUT: is Pond5 getting 50% of those because they are now owning the "Publisher" half of the Music they sync? Can´t you find out from Pond5 directly?
Also, the TV is just Airing the Production, so really you have to find out who bought/synced your music in the first place (the production) and hope that they did not register the "New Work" as their own, because effectively, this is what Pond5 means with Royalty Free: that you can use what you buy on pond 5 to create distribute and sell new material.

if you read the Pond5 User Agreement (which is really not that long) especially Section 2 .e and .f and then Sec 3 and Sec 6 especially .b there is nothing mention of Pond5 takin over any Publishing rights for music.

However it is really unclear what actually happens to your music once it is licensed.

Best bet is to call them and ask.

Please elt us know how it goes!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Btw here´s a good link to PRO and Pond5 : https://help.pond5.com/hc/en-us/arti...and-Cue-Sheets

Goes without saying, that hopefully you´r track had the PRO section properly filled out?!

By looking at the PRO sheet from Pond5 it appears that THEY DO NOT take over the Publising rights of the music, because YOU have to fill in whatever Publisher holds the rights in the PRO sheet
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Nut
 

I have yet to receive any broadcast royalties through cues licensed at Pond5, but I do fill out PRO, list my own publishing company, and register the Pond5 title at ASCAP. Maybe someday one will hit.

I have not noticed a decrease in sales, but I have noticed over the last few months my views have gone up significantly (more than double), but sales have held steady. I have around 500 cues there and have been licensing through Pond5 for over three years.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKMusic View Post
I have yet to receive any broadcast royalties through cues licensed at Pond5, but I do fill out PRO, list my own publishing company, and register the Pond5 title at ASCAP. Maybe someday one will hit.
Same here - just a few tracks of mine are PRO registered, but of course the tracks data is always filled by me on such registered tracks.

What should I do next with those dutch guys? I know they read my mail, but no reply at all. And I haven't checked yet, but though I am hell-sure it doesn't show up on BMI - also, at it will certainly need quite some time, even if they did registered the cue correctly in their sheets...or am I on the wrong path here?

Back to the low sales. It's just that the drop came out of nowhere, and persists since months...(while also in the last days my views were super-high - they never have been higher actually!)....or maybe the people "google around", and get the same track totally free, via downloading the unwatermarked file? (yup - sadly still quite some libraries don't do watermarkings, even in this day).

Freshd.
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