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Music needed for tiny video company
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 
oldwriterdude's Avatar
Music needed for tiny video company

Our company is small. There is no pay, but you will get global recognition. Many opportunities for great and small to hear your music.

Many people throughout the world are uneducated and illiterate by design.

It's time that things were passively changed.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Nut
 

bahahaha... good one!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
There is no pay, but you will get global recognition.

Hmmm....I've never heard that one before.

Best of luck with your small company. Hopefully some day you will do well enough so that you can pay enough to actually help keep your composers eating with a roof over their heads.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Here for the gear
I don't think I want to be globally recognized as someone who would devalue their peers and profession by working for free.

On an unrelated note: Does anyone know plumber who will service my gas heater for free? In exchange, I'll promise to give them a 5 star yelp review under the title, "Can you believe I got these jack-wagons to work for free!?"
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Plumbers don't get nearly enough exposure. We should passively change that.

I mean, we all know the big names in plumbing, Kently Porterbecker, Meryl Stew, James Tunderner. These are obviously house hold names. But the smaller guys, they should really be trying to get more exposure by doing high profile, free work. There's a ton of great pipe work going on in the indie plumbing scene right now!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Mrx
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
There is no pay, but you will get global recognition.
Heard that one quite a few times too. I went for it once and what I discovered was that I like to get paid
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Here for the gear
 
oldwriterdude's Avatar
Typical. No bonus, no parties, no chicks, no way. Got it.

In the real world, writers and talent start at the very bottom. Nobody gets paid. Keep the day job. Probably 99 percent don't make it.

We're done here.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
In the real world, writers and talent start at the very bottom. Nobody gets paid.
I started at the very bottom. And I got paid. Not a huge amount, but enough to earn a living. Where did the "nobody gets paid" syndrome come from. Certainly not from the world I live/lived in.

When I hire younger / inexperienced musicians, I wouldn't DARE tell them that. I pay them fairly. Maybe not as much as I'd pay a seasoned studio pro, but certainly enough to make it worth their time. And when I hire pro's, I pay them pro wages. I wouldn't have the audacity to ask anyone - experienced or inexperienced - to work for free. Every person is worth their wages.

Insanity.....
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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TVPostSound's Avatar
But what about lunch, and credits??
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Sure everyone has to start somewhere. Passion projects are certainly a thing but usually those projects are born from the collective passion of a team who are working on their dream together.

When someone offers tons of exposure as something of value, I figure the people you’re exposing your work to are compensating your team, otherwise, how can you afford to expose yourself to such a large audience?

I’m sure you’ll find someone young and hungry to give you some material, just don’t advertise your business this way. If you’re growing, find someone who wants to grow the same way you do.

Best of luck.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
Typical. No bonus, no parties, no chicks, no way. Got it.

In the real world, writers and talent start at the very bottom. Nobody gets paid. Keep the day job. Probably 99 percent don't make it.

We're done here.
U mad no one wants to work on your student project?

Get your money up and pony it up or get garbage music - your choice. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
In the real world, writers and talent start at the very bottom. Nobody gets paid.
Well, first of all if you are getting "global recognition" it sort of implies this is no longer "at the bottom" as far as your company and production goes... which

secondly makes us wonder if it's really true that "nobody gets paid". I mean, I understand what you're saying there, you're referring to nobody at the bottom getting paid and that that's where you're looking for talent, but;

if you get paid, why shouldn't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
Keep the day job. Probably 99 percent don't make it.
I think a reasonable question would be why you would court these people at the bottom, 99% of whom never make it? If their skill and talent is that low, why would you want to work with them? Conversely, if they're not that, then why wouldn't you pay? Surely you'll place demands on their skill, talent and professionality since you care about your project, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
We're done here.
I understand you're upset, but you've been on this forum for half a decade and should know by now that there are a fair amount of people here that do this for a living, and that requests like these are mostly frowned upon.

I think the better way to take this is as a learning experience in either business or in communication.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Global recognition as someone who works for free is exactly what I don't want.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
you will get global recognition.
Will my name be in the opening and closing credits? Will you put my pic and bio up on your website, with a link to my website and youtube channel? Will you take me along for interviews that you do with media outlets?

y/n
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
Our company is small. There is no pay, but you will get global recognition. Many opportunities for great and small to hear your music.

Many people throughout the world are uneducated and illiterate by design.

It's time that things were passively changed.
I’ll do it as long as I retain ownership and get all songwriters and publishing royalties. I need to also be able to monetize the videos if they hit YouTube.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
Typical. No bonus, no parties, no chicks, no way. Got it.
I'm still very much "at the bottom", but do quite a bit of work, and have *always* got paid, right from the start.

Haven't got any bonuses, parties, or chicks though due to writing stock/music for picture... :( I guess my wife thinks I'm cool... maybe...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Addict
 

On reflection, I might have responded differently if the OP had made it clear this is a highly unusual production and provided some information about the style and scale of the music. Even if I do happen to know people who might be interested how can I know this?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
I wonder if OP also does videos for free just to get exposed out there...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

Easy to pound on him about whats obvious to us... but it seems more of the result of a more general view of how everyone out there percieves the value of music.
We are overly aware. and we "try" to teach and get paid. but in all fairness there is a crap ton of music out there. and anytime there is someone who flaunts their earnings, like a rapper showing up their ferrari and beverly hills home then its the "they are grossly overpaid" and music shoudnt be worth that much etc even if it was lars ulrich trying to help, everyone just focused on his massive wealth and that gave the wrong idea of how much music is overpaid... while in general music is very underpaid except for a few minority.

and we just blame guys like this who dont know better. but deep down we know every video editor, director etc goes to pond5, pays $14 for a track he uses , which might go broadcast but doesnt chage the license and expects that not only every music should be paid this much but also that a real composer is not needed because they can just choose what they need... they dont know any better, cuz no one taught them that and they dont care about that.

so getting surpised, or offended that some random dude from the depth of minesota doing random videos of his backyard wilderness is askign fro some music for free due to some alchocol infused idea based on on silicon valley news to come up with the next spotify or whatever is oblivious to the scale of the issue. we are pretty much that south park episode of pile of guys fu king each other in the ass thinking somehow it will cure illigal immigration, well.. we are just the same... thinking that somehow "teaching" the video editors, and coming to forums and "knowing" what to do is actually going to change this huge issue of the devalue of music. We are at the mercy of facebook youtube and some other platfroms who are deciding for us how much value the music should get while we do nothing. nothign at all. just complain and argue. ask what library should i submit and so on.
Right now congress is looking into the big tech companies and their monopoly. they keep saying breaking them up cuz they are too powerfull etc etc. to me, its an excelent time for a push for proper copyright compensation and compensation for music on social media or streaming platforms to pay better. less moeny and power to them.
then again, im some random dude telling a (my) truth dosis out of nowhere who might not even exist or also live somehwere remote with alcholol infused ideas that we should get more money without any real plan.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
Easy to pound on him about whats obvious to us... but it seems more of the result of a more general view of how everyone out there percieves the value of music.
We are overly aware. and we "try" to teach and get paid. but in all fairness there is a crap ton of music out there. and anytime there is someone who flaunts their earnings, like a rapper showing up their ferrari and beverly hills home then its the "they are grossly overpaid" and music shoudnt be worth that much etc even if it was lars ulrich trying to help, everyone just focused on his massive wealth and that gave the wrong idea of how much music is overpaid... while in general music is very underpaid except for a few minority.

and we just blame guys like this who dont know better. but deep down we know every video editor, director etc goes to pond5, pays $14 for a track he uses , which might go broadcast but doesnt chage the license and expects that not only every music should be paid this much but also that a real composer is not needed because they can just choose what they need... they dont know any better, cuz no one taught them that and they dont care about that.

so getting surpised, or offended that some random dude from the depth of minesota doing random videos of his backyard wilderness is askign fro some music for free due to some alchocol infused idea based on on silicon valley news to come up with the next spotify or whatever is oblivious to the scale of the issue. we are pretty much that south park episode of pile of guys fu king each other in the ass thinking somehow it will cure illigal immigration, well.. we are just the same... thinking that somehow "teaching" the video editors, and coming to forums and "knowing" what to do is actually going to change this huge issue of the devalue of music. We are at the mercy of facebook youtube and some other platfroms who are deciding for us how much value the music should get while we do nothing. nothign at all. just complain and argue. ask what library should i submit and so on.
Right now congress is looking into the big tech companies and their monopoly. they keep saying breaking them up cuz they are too powerfull etc etc. to me, its an excelent time for a push for proper copyright compensation and compensation for music on social media or streaming platforms to pay better. less moeny and power to them.
then again, im some random dude telling a (my) truth dosis out of nowhere who might not even exist or also live somehwere remote with alcholol infused ideas that we should get more money without any real plan.
Sorry, even though you have some valid points, that's a BS excuse IMO. The dude knew exactly what he was asking for. NO one can sustain living off of giving music away for "free". Not even if you're a millionaire.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Sorry, even though you have some valid points, that's a BS excuse IMO. The dude knew exactly what he was asking for. NO one can sustain living off of giving music away for "free". Not even if you're a millionaire.
^ ^ This! He knew what he was asking for in hopes someone who is "oblivious" would bite and take the gig. If we allow this to be the norm, then it will become the norm.

If he said he was going to make videos for free for a cause or something, then i would entertain the offer. But OP is starting a business, which means he wants income, therfore, it's almost ironic asking for free stuff in exchange for exposure.
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
Konfus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwriterdude View Post
Our company is small.
Not just the company
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Gear Addict
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

What type of music are you looking for?
What is this video about?

If its in my style and its not some weird $hit.. I'll do it...

might take some time; as I have baby #5 on the way...
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Sorry, even though you have some valid points, that's a BS excuse IMO. The dude knew exactly what he was asking for. NO one can sustain living off of giving music away for "free". Not even if you're a millionaire.
so you think poeple are also going around posting in forums asking for free plumbing or car repair services?

if he is asking is for a reason. that reason could be that he might get the free music. why? becuase people are giving music for free!

how are they making music for free and making a living? they aint. they have day jobs, come home and compose. they might have a music degree from highschool or whatever.

and there is semi pro who also have years of random catalogs. there are pros who have random projects. tons and tons and tons of music. good music? meh... usuable? maybe. but its there. its plenty. its not 10 years ago that soundcloud was plagued with random horrible music. there is a tons of great music made by random poeple all over the world "trying to make it".

A LOT OF SUPPLY.


i know your background. I've seen your posts. i do understand your points....
but try to see it from a more far away point of view. a more simple one. there is way too much music. there is way too much music being giving away bascially for free. it would be from some random subsciption service. or via soundcloud, youtube etc.
the point of the matter is how others are viewing the value of music. they dont see Dr bill making great music with a specific standar of living and a ton of specific details about his background and the value he gives music... nope.. they already passed over to the other 20 other services or the 1000000 soundcloud kids giving the music for free. so they can use it on their youtube video. their student film. their music library that has one show attached. for their next music streaming platform and so on. youve lived in LA, right? didnt you meet like at least 30 poeple selling dreams? of course you didnt fall for it. but for billions of kids with a mac and some music talent , its different.
my point is more about getting our shiat together. not about that random dude. becuase it doesnt matter if there is a ton of music. it doesnt matter it might be "good" or "bad" music. what matter is getting a system that pays fairly. and it aint happening if he dont get to very basic things like the percieved value of music.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
I get your point. Yeah, used to live in LA. Most of my my life actually.

There are a million crappy fast food joints in LA. Still doesn't make me want to go to them when I want to go out and eat. I'd rather hit President Thai in Pasadena or my favorite Brazilian BBQ, or a multitude of other moderate to expensive classy joints. And I'm willing to pony up the cash that it will take. The "free" thing really only works so long. Then the "buyer" realizes that "free" isn't really "good", and even though free, it's not really a bargain, and it's almost always a long way from great. Free is expensive in the big picture. And the "employers" (and I use that word VERY loosely) don't want OK, or good - they want GREAT. In this case for little to nothing. That shows lack of foresight IMO, and I don't want to work for those type of people / companies. Real producers realize that music is not free. It's very time intensive and takes a ****load of experience and talent to pull off effectively for their project.

There are always predatory people out there waiting to take advantage, and IMO, that's the OP's attitude. He didn't have a music is inexpensive / free on youtube / apple music / etc., he had a "let me throw this out and see if I can find a neophyte sucker to do my projects for free" game plan.

Getting a piece of music for "free" on youtube is a HUUUUUUUGELY different thing than getting someone to score your film for free. One costs the musician nothing. The other is a huge time soak, and quite potentially money soak that takes days if not weeks of time. Comparing a free song on soundcloud to having someone score your film is the functional equivalent of saying food should be free because it IS free at the Costco "try me / buy me" tables, thus extrapolating that your favorite 5 Star restaurant should be free as well because Costco is giving away free food samples.

Predatory behavior - it's been around since the beginning of time. If you want to be taken advantage of, knock yourself out (figuratively speaking - not speaking to you directly). Call the OP and bend over. I'm sure he'll be more than accommodating.

Me? I'd rather pay people fairly - my gardener, my handyman, my plumber, my mechanic, my studio musicians - whoever - and get a GOOD job done - at a fair price. It's absolutely worth it.

Free ultimately ends up sucking for the "employer" as well. The bottom feeders just haven't figured it out yet.

Old 1 week ago
  #26
Mrx
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post

Me? I'd rather pay people fairly - my gardener, my handyman, my plumber, my mechanic, my studio musicians - whoever - and get a GOOD job done - at a fair price. It's absolutely worth it.

Free ultimately ends up sucking for the "employer" as well. The bottom feeders just haven't figured it out yet.


I agree with this. We can all go around trying to get everything as cheaply as possible but ultimately what is being created is not just bad vibes but a real sense of lack and tightness.
Consider this, why shouldn't people get paid well? It's easy to forget that a good wage can actually make a huge difference to people and does IMO create a sense of good will between people.
I just hired an electrician and I guess we paid a decent but fair price. It's possible we could have had it done cheaper but at the end of the day we got really great service. There were a few things that were faulty after 2 months and they came and changed them with no questions asked. So on the whole I lean towards paying people well.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Just to play devils advocate here:

I am surprised that many of you guys who write full time aren’t using an army of low paid ghostwriters to boost your catalogs.

Well not really that surprised, since you all seem to have that little quirk called “integrity”.

But I am sure other experienced composers with less scruples are leaning on poor, skilled, and hungry younger talent to do the heavy lifting to bulk up their catalogs.

Anyway, music is war, and war is hell.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Just to play devils advocate here:

I am surprised that many of you guys who write full time aren’t using an army of low paid ghostwriters to boost your catalogs.

Well not really that surprised, since you all seem to have that little quirk called “integrity”.

But I am sure other experienced composers with less scruples are leaning on poor, skilled, and hungry younger talent to do the heavy lifting to bulk up their catalogs.

Anyway, music is war, and war is hell.
There are guys on here using hordes of ghostwriters. You just need to look closer.

For me, I have co-written with a few people over time. I've found - personally - that by the time I split publishing and writers, and fix their stuff, and mix it, and master it, and do their metadata - that I could have written another song myself. If it all came in perfect, great writing, fantastic mixes and mastered, I suppose it might be a different situation, but honestly, I'd feel dirty taking half their royalties at that point.

For me, it's just not worth the time.

I will say though that the best thing about ghost writers is (potentially) a fresh perspective.
Old 1 week ago
  #29
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
I am surprised that many of you guys who write full time aren’t using an army of low paid ghostwriters to boost your catalogs.
I am going to cry integrity here.
Old 1 week ago
  #30
Here for the gear
 
oldwriterdude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dethbyoogabooga View Post
I wonder if OP also does videos for free just to get exposed out there...
Good question.

Actually, I'm famous in another realm of creativity. The music videos are for my enjoyment and I help other people get their name out there. It's more than was done for me when I started out.
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