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NBC 'Songland' ; If you think it couldn't get any worse ...
Old 29th May 2019
  #1
Gear Head
 
G.K.'s Avatar
NBC 'Songland' ; If you think it couldn't get any worse ...

You are a songwriter , ...
you are waiting for a big chance , ...
you are doing everything to get your song performed on a major network , ...

... and then you face this :


https://www.thewrap.com/adam-levine-...rous-contract/




G.K.
Old 29th May 2019
  #2
Since when are these shows worth it anyway? Even if you win, you get a little bit of exposure, whatever product you issue as a result flops (in most cases), and back to obscurity you go. Seems not worth it at all to me.
Old 29th May 2019
  #3
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Since when are these shows worth it anyway?
You may be right, but that's not the point. The point is, that no entity, company, producer, label, etc. should ever have anything like this in their contracts:

I (meaning the writer) waive any claims to royalties of any kind, whether accruing now or in the future, from Producer and NBCUniversal for the use of any such Music or any other music, including, without limitation, any applicable copyright, public performance, mechanical and synchronization royalties.

It's one thing to say that we (meaning the entity) have the right to use your music as we see fit in connection with the Program, in perpetuity... but it is something entirely different to take the earnings away from the writer. It's called taking advantage of the little guy, stepping on the little guy's head, and twisting your foot.

Cheers.
Old 29th May 2019
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
You may be right, but that's not the point. The point is, that no entity, company, producer, label, etc. should ever have anything like this in their contracts:

I (meaning the writer) waive any claims to royalties of any kind, whether accruing now or in the future, from Producer and NBCUniversal for the use of any such Music or any other music, including, without limitation, any applicable copyright, public performance, mechanical and synchronization royalties.

It's one thing to say that we (meaning the entity) have the right to use your music as we see fit in connection with the Program, in perpetuity... but it is something entirely different to take the earnings away from the writer. It's called taking advantage of the little guy, stepping on the little guy's head, and twisting your foot.

Cheers.
Your beef isn’t with me. I didn’t create the agreement.
Old 29th May 2019
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Your beef isn’t with me.
Where do you get the impression that I feel your beef is with me?
Old 29th May 2019
  #6
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bgood's Avatar
What a kick in the balls... I could see it make sense if you had to sign away any tunes that were actually used in the show... but all of the tunes you submit?! Holy crap... as mentioned, folks will be sending in their best stuff... sad.

I don’t know enough about the show... but, I think the winner has his tune selected and it’s recorded by a star like John legend or something. So, does that mean it’s also released for sale? If so, is the songwriter also screwed out that split, too?

So many questions.
Old 29th May 2019
  #7
Gear Addict
 

I did some video work recently for a major entertainment company. I made a little piece of music to use as a temp track and the client ended up loving it and wanted to use it. I was getting paid for the video work but they weren't paying me anything for the music.

Their legal department wanted me to sign a contract that gave them exclusive rights in perpetuity for any use, they wanted me to assign all songwriting and publishing royalties to them and consider it a "work for hire", and I would retain sole liability for any legal issues. LOL no thanks.

I don't even know how that last part works. If I did subconsciously plagiarize something and they got sued, how am I liable if their name is listed as the sole songwriter?
Old 29th May 2019
  #8
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xamatsni View Post
Their legal department wanted me to sign a contract that gave them exclusive rights in perpetuity for any use, they wanted me to assign all songwriting and publishing royalties to them and consider it a "work for hire", and I would retain sole liability for any legal issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xamatsni View Post
I don't even know how that last part works. If I did subconsciously plagiarize something and they got sued, how am I liable if their name is listed as the sole songwriter?
Your name is still tied to the work somehow, somewhere. The emails back and forth regarding the work, as one ex.

Cheers.
Old 29th May 2019
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Progger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
What a kick in the balls... I could see it make sense if you had to sign away any tunes that were actually used in the show... but all of the tunes you submit?! Holy crap... as mentioned, folks will be sending in their best stuff... sad.

I don’t know enough about the show... but, I think the winner has his tune selected and it’s recorded by a star like John legend or something. So, does that mean it’s also released for sale? If so, is the songwriter also screwed out that split, too?

So many questions.
Absolutely guarantee the songwriter is screwed out of that money as well. That seems to be the whole point: the network will get all the money from everything and the songwriter will get all that great EXPOSURE!

This is gross. I would be completely fine with the network keeping all of the publishing, that seems fair. They should get ZERO of the songwriting points. Absolutely disgusting.

A great comic by The Oatmeal addresses this nicely.
Old 29th May 2019
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xamatsni View Post
I did some video work recently for a major entertainment company. I made a little piece of music to use as a temp track and the client ended up loving it and wanted to use it. I was getting paid for the video work but they weren't paying me anything for the music.

Their legal department wanted me to sign a contract that gave them exclusive rights in perpetuity for any use, they wanted me to assign all songwriting and publishing royalties to them and consider it a "work for hire", and I would retain sole liability for any legal issues. LOL no thanks.

I don't even know how that last part works. If I did subconsciously plagiarize something and they got sued, how am I liable if their name is listed as the sole songwriter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Progger View Post
Absolutely guarantee the songwriter is screwed out of that money as well. That seems to be the whole point: the network will get all the money from everything and the songwriter will get all that great EXPOSURE!

This is gross. I would be completely fine with the network keeping all of the publishing, that seems fair. They should get ZERO of the songwriting points. Absolutely disgusting.

A great comic by The Oatmeal addresses this nicely.
Completely agree. This is absolutely disgusting.

Never forget the quote by Hunter S. Thompson:

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
Old 29th May 2019
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
if you ever argue that selling your soul to the devil should be illegal. you'll get a lot of folk arguing that, making selling your soul to the devil illegal, would be an assault on your freedom. that's why it's a buyers market.
Old 30th May 2019
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
Completely agree. This is absolutely disgusting.

Never forget the quote by Hunter S. Thompson:

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
Alas, that's erroneous - his original quote was about the TV business, which is even more appropriate...

“The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason.”

Considering how hard it is to earn a living these days (with streaming being the norm) solely as a songwriter, this is exceptionally appalling.
Old 31st May 2019
  #13
Old 31st May 2019
  #14
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJAM View Post
Thanks for posting.

So, Morrissey comes out and says that there has been confusion over the contract. Why not just say, hey - we made a mistake, and now we fixed it. What's wrong with saying that?

The updated vers reads:

"As part of my application to participate in the Program, I may or will be required to submit an original, unpublished song and other musical material (collectively, the "Music"), for which I hold and shall continue to hold all copyrights and ownership therein."

I still wonder about royalty distro, however.

Cheers.
Old 31st May 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
 

There’s nothing wrong with this deal. It’s manufactured for the viewer, not the participant. If an artist wants to jump into the gears, they’re getting the opportunity to go in face first here. It’s natural selection.

Artists should be educated, the loss that’s available should be a neon sign, not fine print, but everyone learns the stove is hot in a different way. Work on your craft, your business sense and only play the lottery if you know the rules.
Old 31st May 2019
  #16
Here for the gear
Wow, as if i didn't hate these types of shows enough already. Heaven forbid we have artists who don't sound like Maroon 5 or Taylor Swift. Then, if by some miracle it's a hit - screw you! Brilliant.
Old 4th June 2019
  #17
Here for the gear
 

Hey everyone. The current iteration of the contract is much more favorable to the writers than the article referenced from 2016. Furthermore, the onus is on the writer. Do they want to continue to sit on a song they believe in and let it be the greatest song no one has ever heard or is it worth it to them to give up some ownership and actually give the song some life? This whole idea that the writers are getting shafted is ridiculous.
Old 5th June 2019
  #18
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soldsomestuff View Post
Hey everyone. The current iteration of the contract is much more favorable to the writers than the article referenced from 2016. Furthermore, the onus is on the writer. Do they want to continue to sit on a song they believe in and let it be the greatest song no one has ever heard or is it worth it to them to give up some ownership and actually give the song some life? This whole idea that the writers are getting shafted is ridiculous.
Thanks for the public service announcement. You signed up just to let us know. Bravo!!
Old 14th July 2019
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K. View Post
You are a songwriter , ...
you are waiting for a big chance , ...
you are doing everything to get your song performed on a major network , ...

... and then you face this :


https://www.thewrap.com/adam-levine-...rous-contract/




G.K.
The headline sez it al: "Adam Levine’s Songwriter Competition Show Under Fire for Requiring Contestants to Waive All Royalties"

Waive ALL royalties.
Old 27th July 2019
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
What a kick in the balls... I could see it make sense if you had to sign away any tunes that were actually used in the show... but all of the tunes you submit?! Holy crap... as mentioned, folks will be sending in their best stuff... sad.

I don’t know enough about the show... but, I think the winner has his tune selected and it’s recorded by a star like John legend or something. So, does that mean it’s also released for sale? If so, is the songwriter also screwed out that split, too?

So many questions.

If your song ends up on the show the hosts/Producers take 50% of the writers share whether it gets released or not. The show takes publishing.
Old 27th July 2019
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat1 View Post
If your song ends up on the show the hosts/Producers take 50% of the writers share whether it gets released or not. The show takes publishing.
Yes. Not a bad deal. One song will be a loss leader to say that you co-wrote a song for whoever the hosts or producers are. Having a songwriting credit with a pop star or hit producer gives you leverage to get better deals later.

Bragging rights is what gets you ahead.
Old 27th July 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Yes. Not a bad deal. One song will be a loss leader to say that you co-wrote a song for whoever the hosts or producers are. Having a songwriting credit with a pop star or hit producer gives you leverage to get better deals later.

Bragging rights is what gets you ahead.
Yep. I haven't seen the show yet but from what I gather the contestants are unsigned singer/songwriters so realistically all you're giving up as a producer/writer is whatever small production fee you could have negotiated with them to put it out. If you're the artist/writer on the show then it's a no brainer really
Old 27th July 2019
  #23
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bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat1 View Post
If your song ends up on the show the hosts/Producers take 50% of the writers share whether it gets released or not. The show takes publishing.
Well, this didn’t shake out quite like the OP... which is good!
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