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Tunesat thoughts 2019
Old 23rd May 2019
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Tunesat thoughts 2019

I am a Tunesat paying subscriber and have been for a long time. I wondered what other subscribers thought of the service. It just seems to have stagnated and not developed for a number of years. The website hasn't changed and the number of countries monitored hasn't increased (I may be wrong but I seem to recall there were more countries monitored before. Perhaps someone could clarify this.) Currently, it monitors 13 EU countries plus the US. Not many.

The detections still happen - but alot go missed.

It very much has an abandoned feel to it. Which is a shame as it promised so much but doesn't seem to have evolved to any great extent since its last update some years ago.

Any thoughts from the esteemed members here?
Old 23rd May 2019
  #2
Gear Head
 

I have like 25 free accounts with them
Old 23rd May 2019
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
I have like 25 free accounts with them
I only have 6 free accounts, with 5 already maxed out. I’ll probably add a few more by the end of the year.

The service is somewhat helpful. But I think it is much too expensive for the size of my catalog.

Also my PRO doesn’t pay out based on Tunesat detections, so the financial investment wouldn’t result in anything for me.

The free accounts help me to contact the publishers to see if they are getting cue sheets and are being paid on placements.
Old 24th May 2019
  #4
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
I've got 2000+ unique titles, with probably 10-15,000 alt mixes, cutdowns etc.. How much would it cost me to use the service, and would it be worthwhile?
Old 24th May 2019
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I've got 2000+ unique titles, with probably 10-15,000 alt mixes, cutdowns etc.. How much would it cost me to use the service, and would it be worthwhile?
https://tunesat.com/tunesatportal/premium
Old 24th May 2019
  #6
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Thanks....but that tells me nothing unless I enter my billing information....

Seems salesmany. I think no. I'm guessing it would cost a fortune, and all BMI would do is ignore me more...
Old 24th May 2019
  #7
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Source Audio is 20x less expensive. If they haven't already activated it, I know they were working on a hybrid watermarking/fingerprint detection system. That way it can detect your music that's already out in the wild in addition to new music that you would watermark. I do so like Source Audio. They're just always in a state of developing cool new features.

https://www.sourceaudio.com/detect/
Old 24th May 2019
  #8
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Thanks....but that tells me nothing unless I enter my billing information....

Seems salesmany. I think no. I'm guessing it would cost a fortune, and all BMI would do is ignore me more...
For 2500 titles in the US and EU you'd be at $1,333-$2,000 per month with Tunesat. Which is stupid expensive. You'd be $99 a month for up to 9,999 tracks on Source Audio detect.

Plus Source Audio has actual video snippets of uses instead of just audio, like tunesat has.
Old 24th May 2019
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Source Audio is 20x less expensive. If they haven't already activated it, I know they were working on a hybrid watermarking/fingerprint detection system. That way it can detect your music that's already out in the wild in addition to new music that you would watermark. I do so like Source Audio. They're just always in a state of developing cool new features.

https://www.sourceaudio.com/detect/
That looks brilliant but unless I am mistaken it is only US networks? Are they fairly new to this then Vita? Their whole vibe seems to have alot more energy and smartness about it. Which is what I want to see from TS given how much I'm paying them per month.
Old 24th May 2019
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
For 2500 titles in the US and EU you'd be at $1,333-$2,000 per month with Tunesat.
You will be able to negotiate a reasonable discount on that number of tracks. Still pricey though.
Old 24th May 2019
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Source Audio is 20x less expensive. If they haven't already activated it, I know they were working on a hybrid watermarking/fingerprint detection system. That way it can detect your music that's already out in the wild in addition to new music that you would watermark. I do so like Source Audio. They're just always in a state of developing cool new features.

https://www.sourceaudio.com/detect/
I use TuneSat to track content I have in various libraries, is SourceAudio Detect something usable for that purpose? Wouldn’t libraries have an issue with you watermarking files prior to delivery, in case they wanted to watermark them themselves? Or is this not an issue?
Old 24th May 2019
  #12
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
That looks brilliant but unless I am mistaken it is only US networks? Are they fairly new to this then Vita? Their whole vibe seems to have alot more energy and smartness about it. Which is what I want to see from TS given how much I'm paying them per month.
They are sorta new to the detection thing... but growing and developing rather quickly. They say they're at 9 major broadcast networks, over 160 cable channels, and over 100 local broadcast stations. I believe that's all US, but I'm sure they'll be doing EU soon enough.
Old 24th May 2019
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenose View Post
I use TuneSat to track content I have in various libraries, is SourceAudio Detect something usable for that purpose? Wouldn’t libraries have an issue with you watermarking files prior to delivery, in case they wanted to watermark them themselves? Or is this not an issue?
Not sure. Good question.

https://www.sourceaudio.com/sourceaudio-detect-faqs/

So what if I wanted to upload my tracks and then my publishers also independently uploaded the same tracks. How would that work?

Having said that, they could just encode them with different watermarks maybe? Or if the tracks are out there watermarked already by one of the parties, the other just collects the same information.

If you see what I mean. I can't quite get my head around that yet. Will have a think.
Old 24th May 2019
  #14
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Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Source Audio is 20x less expensive. If they haven't already activated it, I know they were working on a hybrid watermarking/fingerprint detection system. That way it can detect your music that's already out in the wild in addition to new music that you would watermark. I do so like Source Audio. They're just always in a state of developing cool new features.

https://www.sourceaudio.com/detect/
Do they only deal with publishers? I've emailed them and they never reply.

Edit: Nevermind, I'm thinking of another company that provide video as well...

Last edited by Amber; 24th May 2019 at 07:24 PM..
Old 24th May 2019
  #15
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
For 2500 titles in the US and EU you'd be at $1,333-$2,000 per month with Tunesat. Which is stupid expensive. You'd be $99 a month for up to 9,999 tracks on Source Audio detect.

Plus Source Audio has actual video snippets of uses instead of just audio, like tunesat has.
Thanks for the info vita!! I've been in touch with Source Audio since they were just getting into their proprietary fingerprinting, and I agree - super smart guys who know what they are doing.

I'm just not sure if making this effort will impact my bottom line a penny. BMI has been unresponsive to me for the most part.....

One question - is registering each alt version of a cue preferable? For the most part, IME, most placements are usually alt versions of tracks. Making the numbers to register astronomical for me.
Old 24th May 2019
  #16
source audio detection is definitely way better than TuneSat. We are dropping Tunesat in favor of BMAT.

But we still also use Source Audio... just a note... source audio does not make their own detection service but licenses it and uses DigiMark. So as DigiMark listening stations/servers grow, so will SA Detect.

The one great thing about SA Detect's watermark... there are NO false detections. Once they turn on the fingerprinting/watermarking hybrid there will be some false detections but it won't be nearly as much as with Tunesat.

The other amazing thing about Source Audio... they have worked out partnerships with Nielsen and Gracenote. So instead of just getting raw detection data, you also get the nielsen/gracenote data as well... And Source Audio has been working feverishly for over a year now, jumping through every hoop and over every wall put up by the PROs, to get their detection data acceptable to ASCAP and BMI as a valid proof of use. SESAC already accepts SA Detect as valid proof of use and will pay on it. ASCAP and BMI shouldn't be that far away now.

The only problem I run into now with SA Detect, it's it is not a problem with Source Audio but with Digimark. They will sometimes have detection blackouts due to servers going down or streaming interruptions. So one week I might have over 1000 detections, the next week I have 250. But for the most part it is very reliable. For publishers it is great, we have caught quite a few unreported uses with it.

And like I said, because of the watermark (not fingerprint) there is never a false detection.

Overall Source Audio is doing a kickass job and is doing a lot of great things. Dan (the CEO), Jarrett (their main tech guy) and Hunter (in charge of SA Detect) are all doing an amazing job and adding features that are specifically for library/production music. I can't say enough good things about Source Audio. They are great!

They just came out with their own Adobe Premiere plugin too... and I'm sure a Final Cut and Avid plugin are not far behind. That means people using video editing software have access to their SA accounts directly in their video editor and can audition, and pull audio straight from Source Audio directly into their timeline though the plugin.

They also have eCommerce/Elicensing setup that you can turn on. It's great.

The other really cool thing... they have a "portal" option for music users. For ad agencies, TV networks, music supervisors, etc... they can sign up for a portal account... and then they tick off all the catalogs they have access to... SA sends you a confirmation request... when you approve it now everything you put up in your SA account immediately shows up in the client's portal and is searchable for the client. It gives clients a singular place to go and search through all the music they have deals with and access to. And there are tools in there for clients as well, like automatic cue sheet creation and stuff like that.

It's pretty genius what Source Audio has done. They are making their service extremely use for for music creators as well as for music users.
Old 24th May 2019
  #17
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
source audio detection is definitely way better than TuneSat. We are dropping Tunesat in favor of BMAT.

But we still also use Source Audio... just a note... source audio does not make their own detection service but licenses it and uses DigiMark. So as DigiMark listening stations/servers grow, so will SA Detect.

The one great thing about SA Detect's watermark... there are NO false detections. Once they turn on the fingerprinting/watermarking hybrid there will be some false detections but it won't be nearly as much as with Tunesat.

The other amazing thing about Source Audio... they have worked out partnerships with Nielsen and Gracenote. So instead of just getting raw detection data, you also get the nielsen/gracenote data as well... And Source Audio has been working feverishly for over a year now, jumping through every hoop and over every wall put up by the PROs, to get their detection data acceptable to ASCAP and BMI as a valid proof of use. SESAC already accepts SA Detect as valid proof of use and will pay on it. ASCAP and BMI shouldn't be that far away now.

The only problem I run into now with SA Detect, it's it is not a problem with Source Audio but with Digimark. They will sometimes have detection blackouts due to servers going down or streaming interruptions. So one week I might have over 1000 detections, the next week I have 250. But for the most part it is very reliable. For publishers it is great, we have caught quite a few unreported uses with it.

And like I said, because of the watermark (not fingerprint) there is never a false detection.

Overall Source Audio is doing a kickass job and is doing a lot of great things. Dan (the CEO), Jarrett (their main tech guy) and Hunter (in charge of SA Detect) are all doing an amazing job and adding features that are specifically for library/production music. I can't say enough good things about Source Audio. They are great!

They just came out with their own Adobe Premiere plugin too... and I'm sure a Final Cut and Avid plugin are not far behind. That means people using video editing software have access to their SA accounts directly in their video editor and can audition, and pull audio straight from Source Audio directly into their timeline though the plugin.

They also have eCommerce/Elicensing setup that you can turn on. It's great.

The other really cool thing... they have a "portal" option for music users. For ad agencies, TV networks, music supervisors, etc... they can sign up for a portal account... and then they tick off all the catalogs they have access to... SA sends you a confirmation request... when you approve it now everything you put up in your SA account immediately shows up in the client's portal and is searchable for the client. It gives clients a singular place to go and search through all the music they have deals with and access to. And there are tools in there for clients as well, like automatic cue sheet creation and stuff like that.

It's pretty genius what Source Audio has done. They are making their service extremely use for for music creators as well as for music users.
Thanks Derek!! Question - for alt versions, are you putting a unique fingerprint on them? It would seem like one would have to..... Thx. bp
Old 29th May 2019
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Thanks Derek!! Question - for alt versions, are you putting a unique fingerprint on them? It would seem like one would have to..... Thx. bp
yes... we do a unique fingerprint and a unique watermark for each file. Basically, there should be a unique fingerprint and watermark for each unique ISRC code.

And with one two catalogs we are posting the stems publicly with the mixes... with those we see A LOT of watermark detections from the stem or stems. So it's good from a research standpoint, you can see what clients are using a lot of and you can see when they make custom mixes/edits from the stems.
Old 29th May 2019
  #19
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Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
yes... we do a unique fingerprint and a unique watermark for each file. Basically, there should be a unique fingerprint and watermark for each unique ISRC code.

And with one two catalogs we are posting the stems publicly with the mixes... with those we see A LOT of watermark detections from the stem or stems. So it's good from a research standpoint, you can see what clients are using a lot of and you can see when they make custom mixes/edits from the stems.
I've noticed more and more editors are making their own custom mixes from the stems. Dropping an element out for dialogue etc, editors can be great music editors! Or going from full mix to maybe just the piano stem and back etc.

More important than ever to get that underscore mixes perfect imo!

A bit sad, but I get a good kick out of doing deliverables and coming across a nice underscore mix.
Old 29th May 2019
  #20
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
yes... we do a unique fingerprint and a unique watermark for each file. Basically, there should be a unique fingerprint and watermark for each unique ISRC code.

And with one two catalogs we are posting the stems publicly with the mixes... with those we see A LOT of watermark detections from the stem or stems. So it's good from a research standpoint, you can see what clients are using a lot of and you can see when they make custom mixes/edits from the stems.
Thanks Derek - that's kinda what I thought....
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